The anti-crypto thread

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
@ultimatebob

There's a good chance there will be a long, slow, and torturous slide from here on out like there was starting in 2019. Assuming all that easy Fed money dries up by next June, much of the cash flow driving up crypto values will vanish; however, if inflation continues, then that may drive cash into crypto from other sources.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
After reading more on the BadgerDAO hack, it looks like it wasn't a fault of the smart contract OR the underlying blockchain, but rather a malicious script that was injected into the BadgerDAO website that scraped credentials of users. It seems that the underlying contracts were secure, but the HTTP-based interface was not.

One commenter within Badger’s Discord summed up the situation by saying, “All [the] blockchain / smart contract audits in the world, and people lose 120m to a Cloudflare API leak by a sloppy team where a dude passes a new approval to his contract in the site header - GG - we still have a long way to go.” A member of the team said, “I’m sure we will have some mitigation procedures proposed after this.”

lol
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski
Feb 4, 2009
34,648
15,847
136
After reading more on the BadgerDAO hack, it looks like it wasn't a fault of the smart contract OR the underlying blockchain, but rather a malicious script that was injected into the BadgerDAO website that scraped credentials of users. It seems that the underlying contracts were secure, but the HTTP-based interface was not.



lol

Now try to sell this idea of block chain voting being safe for all uses.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,649
5,382
136
Yeah, me too. The fact that so many "gamers" have been "trained to hate" on "murder simulators", . . .

Grand Theft Auto taught me everything I needed to learn in life. Especially the appropriate methods for conflict resolution and wealth acquisition. And to always bring body armor.





( since this is the internet, I guess I have to post a disclaimer indicating this post was intended to be sarcasm )
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Yeah, me too. The fact that so many "gamers" have been "trained to hate" on "murder simulators", and now they're unleashing that hate on a largely innocent group of people, that have done nothing wrong, other than they were really clever, and found a way to create internet-wide "virtual currency economies", and actually make real-world profits, rather than the ephemera that gamers acquire. Miners are not this cut-throat band of thieves, in fact, they form a secretive but largely-supporting grass-roots community. Instead of hating, they're encouraging, and learning.

Encourging, learning... and scalping video cards so they now cost over 200% of what the MSRP was for them in early 2020. Yeah... they're a great bunch of people
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,419
10,095
126
Encourging, learning... and scalping video cards so they now cost over 200% of what the MSRP was for them in early 2020. Yeah... they're a great bunch of people
You seem to be VERY confused. Miners are NOT scalpers.

Edit: Also, miners are (generally) not retailers, and do not set card prices.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,648
15,847
136
So use a different interface? This is one instance where dedicated wallet software does the job better than a web interface.
My admittedly amateur point is the web being safe until it isn’t to a normal person.
How would someone of normal ability know a safe web interface vs an at risk web interface.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,961
6,312
136
A normal person won't. Just like they won't know if an investor is completely on the the up and up. Traditional banks would be just as shady (and. historically a lot of shadiness did occur) without the threat of the law in place to keep them honest. A normal person isn't capable of figuring out most things and relies on society being generally honest and not out to swindle or otherwise take advantage of them.

If people want to have a system outside of that which they use that's their own business and I won't stop them. Sometimes the best way to get people to see reason is to let them make their own mistakes.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
You seem to be VERY confused. Miners are NOT scalpers.

Edit: Also, miners are (generally) not retailers, and do not set card prices.

No, but the miners are the ones buying the cards from the scalpers at inflated prices. Because they can recoup their investment with crypto mining, they don't mind jacking up the bids on the cards to over 200% MSRP like most gamers would.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,419
10,095
126
No, but the miners are the ones buying the cards from the scalpers at inflated prices. Because they can recoup their investment with crypto mining, they don't mind jacking up the bids on the cards to over 200% MSRP like most gamers would.
Some miners, maybe. Most of the experienced miners that I know of or have read, seem to only want MSRP-ish (retail) pricing for their cards as well.

The scalping of cards, hurts miners as well as gamers pretty-much equally across the board, just that miners can see the value proposition of a card more than most gamers, and realize, that it's not the end of the world paying slightly increased prices. But most "sane" miners out there, don't pay 2x-3x MSRP for cards, either.

(RedPandaMining did a video advising NOT to pay scalper prices for GPUs, which he had to recant later, as regular day-to-day retailers had started selling cards at those formerly scalper prices.)
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
My admittedly amateur point is the web being safe until it isn’t to a normal person.
How would someone of normal ability know a safe web interface vs an at risk web interface.

In this case even the devs didn't know what was going on. They had audited the hell out of their smart contract, but they didn't pay anyone to do security on their web setup. Or rather they expected that having Cloudflare would magically fix everything for them.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,961
6,312
136
Pizza provides sustenance and nourishment. Crypto provides nothing of value.

It's the medium of exchange in the transaction. I can understand if people don't like it or don't trust something that largely or entirely exists outside of regulatory overbite, but the the takes that say it provides nothing of value come across as equally devoid themselves.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
It's the medium of exchange in the transaction. I can understand if people don't like it or don't trust something that largely or entirely exists outside of regulatory overbite, but the the takes that say it provides nothing of value come across as equally devoid themselves.

Who can really blame people for initially getting this impression? Hype, bubbles, and crashes are all hallmarks of blockchain token markets. What goes unmentioned is the enormous amount of work going into various blockchain projects in pursuit of goals that in the end are . . . really rather boring.

It's easy to get excited about 10x gains or similar. But what about accounting software for blockchain? Not very sexy. Unless accounting is your thing.
 
Reactions: VirtualLarry

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,961
6,312
136
Who can really blame people for initially getting this impression? Hype, bubbles, and crashes are all hallmarks of blockchain token markets.

You could have just said "markets" and nothing you've said would have changed. Cryptocurrency isn't magically immune to all of the same problems that other currencies or commodities face. People complain about wild swings in crypto markets without stopping to realize that there are plenty of traditional currencies that have undergone even more rapid swings in the past few years.

It's easy to get excited about 10x gains or similar. But what about accounting software for blockchain? Not very sexy.

Accounting for anything is boring unless you're an economist. Any over-investment in blockchains as a solution to some problem does more to show the idiocy of middle management than anything else. Of course they've been stupidly doing the same long before blockchains were even conceived of so this is hardly new either.
 

Frenetic Pony

Senior member
May 1, 2012
218
179
116
Who can really blame people for initially getting this impression? Hype, bubbles, and crashes are all hallmarks of blockchain token markets. What goes unmentioned is the enormous amount of work going into various blockchain projects in pursuit of goals that in the end are . . . really rather boring.

It's easy to get excited about 10x gains or similar. But what about accounting software for blockchain? Not very sexy. Unless accounting is your thing.

I mean, accounting is some peoples thing. Like, some people should get excited about paying porn site workers without banks interfering, or sending money to Nigeria for cheap, or very similar sounding mundane problems. Definitely does not square with the hype, which is "people are getting rich because people are buying it because people are getting rich"
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
You could have just said "markets" and nothing you've said would have changed. Cryptocurrency isn't magically immune to all of the same problems that other currencies or commodities face.

On the contrary, it's worse in blockchain token markets. Much worse. Out-and-out scams like the Squid Game token exist, and it's unlikely anyone will ever face punishment for that. The DAO hack went unpunished. Hell just look at any major exchange and watch the wash trading and ladder attacks unfold right in front of your eyes.

edit: I can't prove the laddering, and some markets simply don't offer derivative trading. But I suspect. The wash trading is so obvious though.

Accounting for anything is boring unless you're an economist. Any over-investment in blockchains as a solution to some problem does more to show the idiocy of middle management than anything else. Of course they've been stupidly doing the same long before blockchains were even conceived of so this is hardly new either.

If it saves you a lot of money over traditional solutions and makes it easier to maintain an effective off-site backup of all your invoices, then it can be pretty handy.

Like, some people should get excited about paying porn site workers without banks interfering

There's several projects related to that. PINK was the first one, but there are others.

or sending money to Nigeria for cheap

Tons of work being done in that area. I was surprised how far along some projects have come in pursuit of that goal.

Definitely does not square with the hype, which is "people are getting rich because people are buying it because people are getting rich"

Buy the hype, sell the news, as the saying goes. The blockchain world is full of whitepapers and hot new projects (or tepid old ones with momentuim), but which ones actually show progress? Surprisingly, there are a few, but project valuation is often not related to progress.
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
587
588
136
So... apparently we now know who Satoshi Nakamoto is:


So, if you want to hold him for ransom, you now know who to kidnap
Nakamoto Dundee's story is so full of holes I don't think anyone really believes it besides him. Wasn't the court case just about him screwing over a deceased coworker?
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,330
251
126
How would someone of normal ability...

By the time someone hits 30, they're pretty set in their ways. And forget 50-60 years old and beyond - how many boomers know how to program or are just IT savvy in general - something that was not "normal ability" 25-30 years ago (but the tech to do it still existed). Those who will vote on blockchains like it's nothing new and no big deal are maybe 5 years old right now. My 2 year old will know how to use a hardware wallet before most of you do.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,961
6,312
136
On the contrary, it's worse in blockchain token markets. Much worse. Out-and-out scams like the Squid Game token exist, and it's unlikely anyone will ever face punishment for that. The DAO hack went unpunished. Hell just look at any major exchange and watch the wash trading and ladder attacks unfold right in front of your eyes.

Really it's just a matter of how much a market is regulated. The less regulation, the more that people can get away with.

It's not too much different from loot boxes where it was basically the wild-wild-West until countries started to put more regulations in place.

A lot of security breaches go unpunished. Did anyone go to jail for the Equifax data breach?
 
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