Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

jpiniero · Dec 14, 2022

Being Intel it could easily be a lot of hot air with nothing really said.

uzzi38 · Dec 14, 2022

mikk said:
The biggest variant. I'm not talking about Igor, I'm talking about the Intel slide. And mobile MTL is limited to 6+8 not 6+16.

Never mind this post I misread.

nicalandia · Dec 14, 2022

Wrong thread.

dullard · Dec 16, 2022

jpiniero said:
Friday's a good day to dump bad news?

I'll take back what I said about details coming soon. Looks like the webinar was postponed to Jan 12 due to Covid. https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...tform-roadmap-investor-webinar.html#gs.kqvqe2

But, it is now scheduled for a Thursday. Does that suddenly mean it must be good news since it isn't on a Friday? Or does the fact that they delayed the meeting override the fact that it isn't on a Friday. I get confused regarding conspiracy theories and which rule takes precedence. Either way, feel free to resume the Meteor Lake is delayed past the end of 2023 rumors again.

jpiniero · Dec 16, 2022

dullard said:
I'll take back what I said about details coming soon. Looks like the webinar was postponed to Jan 12 due to Covid. https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...tform-roadmap-investor-webinar.html#gs.kqvqe2

Guessing they got cold feet. The new date btw is approx 2 weeks from Q4 earnings report so they definately won't say anything interesting now.

Hitman928 · Dec 16, 2022

jpiniero said:
Guessing they got cold feet. The new date btw is approx 2 weeks from Q4 earnings report so they definately won't say anything interesting now.

A little strange you would need to postpone a webinar due to covid policies. Unless a bunch of people on the production team all got Covid?

Hulk · Dec 16, 2022

dullard said:
I'll take back what I said about details coming soon. Looks like the webinar was postponed to Jan 12 due to Covid. https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...tform-roadmap-investor-webinar.html#gs.kqvqe2

But, it is now scheduled for a Thursday. Does that suddenly mean it must be good news since it isn't on a Friday? Or does the fact that they delayed the meeting override the fact that it isn't on a Friday. I get confused regarding conspiracy theories and which rule takes precedence. Either way, feel free to resume the Meteor Lake is delayed past the end of 2023 rumors again.

Yes now it's good news. MTL must be ahead of schedule and early samples are hitting 8GHz @ 105 Watts.

Yes, sarcasm!

Doug S · Dec 16, 2022

Hitman928 said:
A little strange you would need to postpone a webinar due to covid policies. Unless a bunch of people on the production team all got Covid?

And I'm sure scheduling it for AFTER the holidays when people have been flying around all over the country will be just fine, covid wise.

Exist50 · Dec 16, 2022

Hitman928 said:
A little strange you would need to postpone a webinar due to covid policies. Unless a bunch of people on the production team all got Covid?

Or just one of the key speakers. It's supposed to be live, after all.

nicalandia · Dec 16, 2022

No MTL Before 2024. Fight Me

DrMrLordX · Dec 16, 2022

dullard said:
Does that suddenly mean it must be good news since it isn't on a Friday?

God only knows. Why wouldn't they just release some slides or text if they can't do the full presentation? If it's THAT important.

Hulk · Dec 16, 2022

nicalandia said:
No MTL Before 2024. Fight Me

The fact that we have a Raptor refresh is a good indication that there is some trepidation with Intel 4. Rocket Lake part deux. Well not really, it's a not a half-baked new fill in, but you know what I mean. Meteor can only work on Intel 4 so Intel is in a holding pattern until that happens.

igor_kavinski · Dec 16, 2022

Maybe investors are demanding that Intel come clean regarding Intel 4 progress. If true, they will tell us all the benefits Intel 4 brings and then give some not-so-great news about it and quickly move on to how great 13900KS will be and what we can expect to see with Raptor Lake Refresh and cheering all around when they confirm Z790 will accept the new CPUs. I'm guessing cache will see an increase again.

Joe NYC · Dec 16, 2022

DrMrLordX said:
God only knows. Why wouldn't they just release some slides or text if they can't do the full presentation? If it's THAT important.

The info and spin must be delivered together.

DrMrLordX · Dec 16, 2022

Joe NYC said:
The info and spin must be delivered together.

Guess they can't spin with a sore throat and cough.

Exist50 · Dec 16, 2022

DrMrLordX said:
God only knows. Why wouldn't they just release some slides or text if they can't do the full presentation? If it's THAT important.

Well if the information was extremely time sensitive, you'd figure they would, right? Feels like people are really making a mountain out of a molehill here...

BorisTheBlade82 · Dec 17, 2022

nicalandia said:
No MTL Before 2024. Fight Me

I am not ready for giving up MTL in 23. I am expecting an IceLake kind of thing in late H2 with only a few OEM designs and not being better than the predecessor in every way. Nevertheless from a design strategy it is the right way to go for Intel IMHO.

witeken · Dec 18, 2022

nicalandia said:
No MTL Before 2024. Fight Me

The production stepping of MTL has already been taped out. Intel literally said Intel 4 production has started.

BorisTheBlade82 · Dec 18, 2022

witeken said:
The production stepping of MTL has already been taped out. Intel literally said Intel 4 production has started.

Even if - MTL is so much more than just an Intel4 CPU chiplet.
Everything needs to come together for this first version, while successors will be much less prone for delays.

igor_kavinski · Dec 18, 2022

It boggles the mind that with all their R&D budget, Intel didn't prioritize testing the waters of chiplet based CPU dies. They must have had monolithic dies planned for the next 10 to 15 years before AMD burst their complacent bubble with Ryzen.

nicalandia · Dec 18, 2022

witeken said:
The production stepping of MTL has already been taped out. Intel literally said Intel 4 production has started.

We all know that. But MTL is much more than Intel4

At first MTL was to be released after Alder Lake in late 2022, but it was not going to be ready and Intel designed Raptor Lake and MTL was moved to late 2023...But now they will have Raptor Lake Refresh so there is that....

Tigerick · Dec 18, 2022

	Process Node	Transistors	Die Size		Execution Units	ALU	RT units	TGP	Graphics Clock	FP32 (TFlops)
A370M	N6	7.2 B	157 mm2	8 Xe Cores	128 EU	1024 ALU	8	35 - 50W	1550 MHz	4.2 TF
GT2	N5	?	?	4 Xe Cores	64 EU	512 ALU	?	?	?	?
GT3	N5	?	?	8 Xe Cores	128 EU	1024 ALU	?	?	?	?
AMD PHX	N4	25 B	178 mm2	6 WGP	768 SP	1536 ALU	NA	35-54W	3 GHz	9.2 TF

Since Kepler leaks the tGPU info on upcoming Meteor Lake, I have compiled the comparison chart of tGPU and A370M, make me think how much power MTL's tGPU needed, any ideas?

BorisTheBlade82 · Dec 18, 2022

igor_kavinski said:
It boggles the mind that with all their R&D budget, Intel didn't prioritize testing the waters of chiplet based CPU dies. They must have had monolithic dies planned for the next 10 to 15 years before AMD burst their complacent bubble with Ryzen.

They had KabyLake-R, Lakefield and they were supposed to have SPR up and running by now. So in theory more than enough playground for chiplets. They admittedly wanted to leapfrog AMD by leaving out an interconnect via organic package and this may still work out if AMD does not come to terms.

Hulk · Dec 18, 2022

Intel does have some experience putting more than one die on a package with the P4 D, C2D quad, etc..

mikk · Dec 18, 2022

Tigerick said:
Process Node Transistors Die Size Execution Units ALU RT units TGP Graphics Clock FP32 (TFlops)
A370M N6 7.2 B 157 mm2 8 Xe Cores 128 EU 1024 ALU 8 35 - 50W 1550 MHz 4.2 TF
GT2 N5 ? ? 4 Xe Cores 64 EU 512 ALU ? ? ? ?
GT3 N5 ? ? 8 Xe Cores 128 EU 1024 ALU ? ? ? ?

Since Kepler leaks the tGPU info on upcoming Meteor Lake, I have compiled the comparison chart of tGPU and A370M, make me think how much power MTL's tGPU needed, any ideas?

There is no indication of a GT3 for Meteor Lake, github only has GT2 entries for mobile. It makes no sense, otherwise we would have to assume MTL only comes with 64EUs against 96 EUs on the previous generation. Kepler also claimed RDNA3 ships with a broken Shader Pre-Fetching which AMD denied. Kepler is not a good source. He claims something without any source and people believe in him.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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