Discussion The RK3588 thread

Shivansps · Mar 10, 2023

I wanted to create a thread about this SoC that is getting more popular these days. Its the first ARM SoC that i could actually consider it as a low power desktop replacement, it has enoght cpu/gpu perf coupled with a actually good video decoder for it.

Right now the two most commonly know SBCs are the Radxa ROCK PI5 and the Orange PI5. With the Orange PI 5 being considerably cheaper because it is using a RK3588S.

RK3588:
CPU:
4x Cortex-A76@2.4GHz + 4x Cortex-A55@1.8GHz;

NPU:
6TOPS, supports INT4/INT8/INT16/FP16 mixed operating;

GPU:
• Mail-G610 MP4
• OpenGLES 1.1, 2.0, 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan1.2

VPU:
Decode:
• H.265, VP9: up to 8K@60fps
• H.264 up to 8K@30fps
• AV1 up to 4K@60fps
Encode:
• H.265/HEVC, H.264/AVC: up to 8K@30fps

I/O
-LPDDR4/4X & LPDDR5 2x32Bit
-eMMC 5.1
-2x HDMI2.1
-HDMI IN
-2x2 Lanes PCIe3.0
-3x SATA 3.0
-1x USB3.0 (shared with PCIE20/SATA30)
-2x USB2.0 HOST
-2x USB3.1 + 2x USB2.0 OTG (Two full function Type C)

RK3588S:
CPU:
4x Cortex-A76@2.4GHz + 4x Cortex-A55@1.8GHz;

NPU:
6TOPS, supports INT4/INT8/INT16/FP16 mixed operating;

GPU:
• Mail-G610 MP4
• OpenGLES 1.1, 2.0, 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan1.2

VPU:
Decode:
• H.265, VP9: up to 8K@60fps
• H.264 up to 8K@30fps
• AV1 up to 4K@60fps
Encode:
• H.265/HEVC, H.264/AVC: up to 8K@30fps

I/O
-LPDDR4/4X & LPDDR5 2x32Bit
-eMMC 5.1
-1x HDMI2.1
-1x USB3.0 (shared with PCIE20/SATA30)
-2x USB2.0 HOST
-1x USB3.1 + 1x USB2.0 OTG(One full function Type C)
-2x1 Lane PCIE2.0
-2x SATA 3.0

The RK3588S cuts down I/O, it still should have the same performance, but the PCI-E 3.0 is not avalible and the PCI-E 2.0 lanes are reduced to just 2 x1 2.0, so the Orange PI 5 M.2 only have a single PCI-E 2.0 lane. That is the most significant change.

The Rock PI 5 from Radxa its interesting because it has a 4xPCIE 3.0 M.2 slot and some people already managed to get GPUs working under Linux. This is a good thing because the PCI-E implementation seems to be standart. (The RPI4 cant use a dGPU because of this).

Windows ARM is not yet a thing on the RK3588, but some WOR members are working on it and had some success.

Once its fully working will be interesting because Nvidia has Windows ARM drivers, just no public.

jaymc · Mar 22, 2023

Ye looks deadly... I am wondering is it poss to buy a generic RK3588 board an install Linux on it as I found opne I like.. but it's just coming with Android 12... I dunno weather to look elsewhere.. but it's got lots of IO... an has a second Board attached.. I am wondering would Ubuntu or Reborn jus pick up the extra stuff.. or can I even install anything other than Android on it ???

Check this out https://www.alibaba.com/trade/searc...=all&SearchText=rk3588&selectedTab=product_en

Shivansps · Mar 27, 2023

jaymc said:
Ye looks deadly... I am wondering is it poss to buy a generic RK3588 board an install Linux on it as I found opne I like.. but it's just coming with Android 12... I dunno weather to look elsewhere.. but it's got lots of IO... an has a second Board attached.. I am wondering would Ubuntu or Reborn jus pick up the extra stuff.. or can I even install anything other than Android on it ???

Check this out https://www.alibaba.com/trade/searc...=all&SearchText=rk3588&selectedTab=product_en

From what ive been told, even Tv Boxes with the RK3588 should be able to run Linux (and likely Windows too), but there are not that many of them yet. This is kinda a premium SoC for a TVBox. Im not sure how this is done, but i think it involves flahing the uefi firmware from a sd card or usb.

I had seem some devices with dual ethernet nics intended to be used as a router, like the NanoPi R6C.

It is a very flexible soc, good I/O, good performance, very good video encoder/decoder, heck it even has the 4K 60 fps HDMI input if a device has that you can even use it as a capture card...
The bad thing is that, as its popularity grows, so are the prices.

Also it looks like Windows on RK3588 is now avalible to test.

How to install on Rockchip devices | Windows on R

Get the full desktop experience of Windows on your Raspberry Pi or Rockchip-based single-board computers.

worproject.com

dark zero · Mar 27, 2023

WIndows on Rockchip is now an interesting thing. I mean, is totally unexpected to see a port for that OS and even more... this is the first non Qualcomm processor to get said support.

Microsoft needs to step up and open Windows for ARM for the rest of processors.

Asterox · Mar 28, 2023

Shivansps said:
I wanted to create a thread about this SoC that is getting more popular these days. Its the first ARM SoC that i could actually consider it as a low power desktop replacement, it has enoght cpu/gpu perf coupled with a actually good video decoder for it.

Right now the two most commonly know SBCs are the Radxa ROCK PI5 and the Orange PI5. With the Orange PI 5 being considerably cheaper because it is using a RK3588S.

RK3588:
CPU:
4x Cortex-A76@2.4GHz + 4x Cortex-A55@1.8GHz;

NPU:
6TOPS, supports INT4/INT8/INT16/FP16 mixed operating;

GPU:
• Mail-G610 MP4
• OpenGLES 1.1, 2.0, 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan1.2

VPU:
Decode:
• H.265, VP9: up to 8K@60fps
• H.264 up to 8K@30fps
• AV1 up to 4K@60fps
Encode:
• H.265/HEVC, H.264/AVC: up to 8K@30fps

I/O
-LPDDR4/4X & LPDDR5 2x32Bit
-eMMC 5.1
-2x HDMI2.1
-HDMI IN
-2x2 Lanes PCIe3.0
-3x SATA 3.0
-1x USB3.0 (shared with PCIE20/SATA30)
-2x USB2.0 HOST
-2x USB3.1 + 2x USB2.0 OTG (Two full function Type C)

RK3588S:
CPU:
4x Cortex-A76@2.4GHz + 4x Cortex-A55@1.8GHz;

NPU:
6TOPS, supports INT4/INT8/INT16/FP16 mixed operating;

GPU:
• Mail-G610 MP4
• OpenGLES 1.1, 2.0, 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan1.2

VPU:
Decode:
• H.265, VP9: up to 8K@60fps
• H.264 up to 8K@30fps
• AV1 up to 4K@60fps
Encode:
• H.265/HEVC, H.264/AVC: up to 8K@30fps

I/O
-LPDDR4/4X & LPDDR5 2x32Bit
-eMMC 5.1
-1x HDMI2.1
-1x USB3.0 (shared with PCIE20/SATA30)
-2x USB2.0 HOST
-1x USB3.1 + 1x USB2.0 OTG(One full function Type C)
-2x1 Lane PCIE2.0
-2x SATA 3.0

The RK3588S cuts down I/O, it still should have the same performance, but the PCI-E 3.0 is not avalible and the PCI-E 2.0 lanes are reduced to just 2 x1 2.0, so the Orange PI 5 M.2 only have a single PCI-E 2.0 lane. That is the most significant change.

The Rock PI 5 from Radxa its interesting because it has a 4xPCIE 3.0 M.2 slot and some people already managed to get GPUs working under Linux. This is a good thing because the PCI-E implementation seems to be standart. (The RPI4 cant use a dGPU because of this).

Windows ARM is not yet a thing on the RK3588, but some WOR members are working on it and had some success.

Once its fully working will be interesting because Nvidia has Windows ARM drivers, just no public.

I would not even attempt, or recommend for such use.It doesn't make any sense, given the prices of the 8GB/257$ or 16GB version for 307$.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004742083429.html

Look, what you can buy for 300$ or 16gb version.R5 5500U 6/12(Zen2/Lucienne)based Mini PC is much beeter option no doubt.

https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Computer-Desktop-Support/dp/B0BG2SHPBS/ref=psdc_565098_t2_B0B778BNFG?th=1

New version is 80$ more expensive, but it has R5 5560U 6/12 Zen 3 APU.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

For Windows or Linux HTPC, even "old Zen 2 APU" he will eat Radxa ROCK PI5 SoC for dinner.

Shivansps · Mar 28, 2023

Asterox said:
I would not even attempt, or recommend for such use.It doesn't make any sense, given the prices of the 8GB/257$ or 16GB version for 307$.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004742083429.html

Look, what you can buy for 300$ or 16gb version.R5 5500U 6/12(Zen2/Lucienne)based Mini PC is much beeter option no doubt.

https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Computer-Desktop-Support/dp/B0BG2SHPBS/ref=psdc_565098_t2_B0B778BNFG?th=1

New version is 80$ more expensive, but it has R5 5560U 6/12 Zen 3 APU.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

For Windows or Linux HTPC, even "old Zen 2 APU" he will eat Radxa ROCK PI5 SoC for dinner.

You need to remember that at the time of writting, the Orange PI 5 8GB was $75, you cant even buy a motherboard these days for that price. Now it is $90 i belive. RockPI 5 was always more expensive.

This is faster than 2C/4T zen athlons and Gemini/Jasper Lake. Greg mentioned just that, that when ARM SBCs gets over the $100-$150 area they start stepping on x86 mini pc territory, and thats not a good thing. And thats is why i always said that ARM SoC can never gain market share with super expensive premium solutions.

DrMrLordX · Mar 28, 2023

I'm glad it (RK3588) exists, but it's a shame that it took this long to get A76 (or better) onto cheap SBCs.

Asterox · Mar 28, 2023

DrMrLordX said:
I'm glad it (RK3588) exists, but it's a shame that it took this long to get A76 (or better) onto cheap SBCs.

220$ for 4GB Ram version, it is not very cheap when you compare it with this little different model for 112$.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004941850323.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.3.41f2524dkaoOwt

hemedans · Mar 28, 2023

Shivansps said:
You need to remember that at the time of writting, the Orange PI 5 8GB was $75, you cant even buy a motherboard these days for that price. Now it is $90 i belive. RockPI 5 was always more expensive.

This is faster than 2C/4T zen athlons and Gemini/Jasper Lake. Greg mentioned just that, that when ARM SBCs gets over the $100-$150 area they start stepping on x86 mini pc territory, and thats not a good thing. And thats is why i always said that ARM SoC can never gain market share with super expensive premium solutions.

Its not faster than Jasper lake though, at worst they will be same but cpu like Pentium N6000/6005 has slightly advantage vs Cortex A76 at those clock, unless you have way to overclock 3588 to around 2.6-2.8ghz.

And Alderlake N is better at same price point.

Shivansps · Mar 28, 2023

hemedans said:
Its not faster than Jasper lake though, at worst they will be same but cpu like Pentium N6000/6005 has slightly advantage vs Cortex A76 at those clock, unless you have way to overclock 3588 to around 2.6-2.8ghz.

And Alderlake N is better at same price point.

Remember this also has 4xA55 to help with background tasks along the 4xA76, ADL-N is faster, yes.

hemedans · Mar 28, 2023

Shivansps said:
Remember this also has 4xA55 to help with background tasks along the 4xA76, ADL-N is faster, yes.

Few Geekbench scores of Rk3588

Geekbench Search - Geekbench

As other cortex A76 cores single core is around 500-600 and Multicore 2300-2600

Geekbench Search - Geekbench

Jsperlake pentium single core is 700-800 and multicore is everywhere sometime under 2000 sometime over 2500 depend with design, but i believe Mini itx SBC design wont have throttling.

Shivansps · Apr 1, 2023

hemedans said:
Few Geekbench scores of Rk3588

Geekbench Search - Geekbench

As other cortex A76 cores single core is around 500-600 and Multicore 2300-2600

Geekbench Search - Geekbench
Jsperlake pentium single core is 700-800 and multicore is everywhere sometime under 2000 sometime over 2500 depend with design, but i believe Mini itx SBC design wont have throttling.

ah ok, ill give you that, the N6005 is very high clocked and have a higher base clock, i didnt knew about it, i know the N5105 and the N6000 that i actually got to play around with devices with those socs. The base clock is very important in Jasper Lake as it is usually TDP limited, that why you will see the N5105 outperforming the N6000 in several cases.

I think only the N6005 is faster, the N5105 more or less matches ST and losses in MT, and N6000 is very TDP limited.

Shivansps · May 10, 2023

Orange PI just announced what is petty much the best RK3588 SBC period.

https://twitter.com/orangepixunlong/status/1655908126120632322?t=OBjSmXU5fAa3DduIFVGVeg&s=19

#OrangePI5PLUS will be available soon. Rockchip RK3588 SoM, 4/8/16GB RAM, eMMC socket, M.2 socket for NVMe SSD, WIFI+BT, and more.
OPi5 Plus 4GB----89.9USD/piece
OPi5 Plus 8GB----109USD/piece
OPi5 Plus 16GB---129USD/piece

https://imgur.com/91g8t1D

https://imgur.com/IJWYaT5

really bad timing because i just ordered a OPI 5 just a few days ago.

The HDMI-IN feature alone allows it to be used as a 1080p standalone capture/streaming device, the price for that feature alone is very good.

R81Z3N1 · May 10, 2023

In the past I used some Hard Kernel hardware for Kodi boards, this is almost a perfect solution for that. Only problem I have is too much swag already have 3 computers, this also could make a great JellyFin box.

Only thing needed is more 8k content, honestly the hardware looks really good.

R81Z3N1

aigomorla · May 10, 2023

im not too keen on the idea of having to pay almost 200 dollars for some of these units.
The RPi 4 even 8GB did not even cost anywhere near that.
I hope when Rasberry fixes the supply chain, it will force everyone to drop there prices.

Yes these guys now have nVME support, and all that other support, but pardon my negativity, wouldn't you rather just pick up a Ryzen SOC embeded unless you really had a python application needed.

Ryzen SOC units like from minisforum, and Beelink will give you a very difficult choice, unless again, you absolutely need that ARM structure, with RISC and Python.

I think these guys lost the whole point in why RPi made them.
They were supposed to be CHEAP.

A/// · May 10, 2023

RPI got expensive during the pandemic but mostly because their corporate structure changed. They ignored they could be replaced. @aigomorla they're prioritising commercial customers. they're also suppliers to a nation at the moe who've got a midget bellend as a neighbour who decided to send his flock their way. you used to be able to get intel based boards like that and run a light linux or modified windows install on it to get it to do things. they were more expensive boards but still worth the dough if you needed to work on x86. those or arm boards are nice you can do anything from sweet innocent projects to some vile dangerous ones with it. they're like those old school chemistry sets that included toxic fluids and questionable susbstances we happily played with decades ago as children.

Shivansps · May 10, 2023

aigomorla said:
im not too keen on the idea of having to pay almost 200 dollars for some of these units.
The RPi 4 even 8GB did not even cost anywhere near that.
I hope when Rasberry fixes the supply chain, it will force everyone to drop there prices.

Yes these guys now have nVME support, and all that other support, but pardon my negativity, wouldn't you rather just pick up a Ryzen SOC embeded unless you really had a python application needed.

Ryzen SOC units like from minisforum, and Beelink will give you a very difficult choice, unless again, you absolutely need that ARM structure, with RISC and Python.

I think these guys lost the whole point in why RPi made them.
They were supposed to be CHEAP.

The Raspberry PI 4 4GB was u$s55 and u$s75 for the 4 and 8GB version respectively and they havent been avalible at that price for almost two years now...

I do agree, any ARM SBC over $120 is pointless, i would consider it the max, and the Orange PI5 has been going up in rice since has been anounced from the starting $60 for the 4GB version to about $80 now.

At any rate, the Orange PI 5, no matter the version are all sub $140, and the PI 5 Plus all versions have a very agressive pricing (compared to other RK3588 SBC).

eek2121 · May 10, 2023

R81Z3N1 said:
In the past I used some Hard Kernel hardware for Kodi boards, this is almost a perfect solution for that. Only problem I have is too much swag already have 3 computers, this also could make a great JellyFin box.

Only thing needed is more 8k content, honestly the hardware looks really good.

R81Z3N1

I could show you my (non 'PC') collection. Several Raspberry Pis, a defunct ASUS offering, several other ARM SBCs, a few RISC-V boards. I tend to collect these things, tinker with them for a bit, and then put them in a bin for later use. I have a few projects going, but all of the SBCs have issues ranging from production scalability to performance. Still, I'm not actually complaining. The SBC innovations are neat. I love seeing it and hope that we eventually see something great. Until then, money well spent?

aigomorla · May 10, 2023

please dont take my post as negative...

I have a few RPi's... and all of them are in circulation atm doing pihole at different locations.
My friends and family wanted them, and when i told them how much it costs to have a hardware DNS filtering, they went NTY at the current price.

Although the ROC-RK3328-CC is what i consider a excellent price for these guys.
But id honestly rather have an original RPi.
I think i may be able to convince them if the RK3328 is capable for PiHole.

Shivansps · May 12, 2023

aigomorla said:
please dont take my post as negative...

I have a few RPi's... and all of them are in circulation atm doing pihole at different locations.
My friends and family wanted them, and when i told them how much it costs to have a hardware DNS filtering, they went NTY at the current price.

Although the ROC-RK3328-CC is what i consider a excellent price for these guys.
But id honestly rather have an original RPi.
I think i may be able to convince them if the RK3328 is capable for PiHole.

I completely understand, i too saw that prices of some of those SBC and i have no idea for what market those are intended to, i assume most of it is for embedded.

The Rock PI 5 was from the start very overpriced, but the Orange PI 5A was ok, it launched at $60/$80/$110 for the 4/8/16GB versions, and i think those to be fair prices considering they are not so far off the RPI 4 4/8GB prices, the performance advantage and the M2 slot. Unfortunately its 75/90/120 now, but i hope that with the launch of the Orange PI 5 Plus at 90/110/130 it will going down again to the launch prices.

Shivansps · May 18, 2023

The Orange PI 5 Plus is now avalible at amazon, $119 for the 8G version

aigomorla · May 18, 2023

https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Rockchip-Computer-Development/dp/B0BLXWXSQQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=FGNQ5FBMGW9I&keywords=orange%2Bpi%2B5&qid=1684447173&sprefix=orange%2Bpi%2B5%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840&th=1

$106.99

Sold by: Orange Pi,
Shipped by Amazon.

The 16GB 138.99

I might want to play with one as it has a built in nVME 4x.
Which means you could probably attach a SATA port card like this:

https://www.amazon.com/ORICO-Adapter-Desktop-Support-RAID-PM2TS6/dp/B09N34NKT1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=79RL4VW7S2Z9&keywords=m.2+sata+adapter&qid=1684447340&sprefix=m.2+sata+%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-4

and probably can make a really cute NAS with OpenMediaVault especially with its dual 2.5gbe.

Shivansps · May 18, 2023

Thats the regular Orange PI 5A the one in the i was talking about is the Orange PI 5 Plus

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C5C6R4BW?ref=myi_title_dp&th=1

$142 for the 16G version, $120 8G and $100 4G.

The 5A has a RK3588S so the NVME is x1 2.0 and has a single 1G ethernet. So its not good in comparison.

The OpenMediaVault actually needs 16GB? i was thinking about the 16G version to use as a home server, so it should be able to run multiple vms with pimox. One could propably run router software/nas/jellyfin/vpn client-server/pi hole all in one low power sbc. And maybe even more.

aigomorla · May 18, 2023

Shivansps said:
The OpenMediaVault actually needs 16GB?

Ive always learned you can never go wrong with too much ram, especially for a NAS or any kind of home server.

Id say if its available, why not and get it while you can.

Ahhhh thanks for heads up on the difference.
Yeah i definitely want 5 Plus.

mTozz · May 20, 2023

Is there that much difference overall between the 5 and 5 Plus?
Also how much additional hardware needs each of those two to shine?
Will be my first single board and I still don't know my use case so sorry for stupid question

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