Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

Hulk · Dec 5, 2021

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

evident · Oct 17, 2023

How come no one has idle power consumption with 0 or minimal workload stats nowadays? I need to replace my haswell era nas that runs a bunch of vms. this thing will be sitting at idle 99% at the time in my scenario.

Racan · Oct 17, 2023

LOLed at that intro.

H433x0n · Oct 17, 2023

ComputerBase data is totally useless.

Out of everybody I was hoping they’d do a power scaling comparison but they didn’t.

Hitman928 · Oct 17, 2023

Hulk said:
Has anybody found a review which compares 14900K performance at various power levels to the 13900K/KS? As I wrote yesterday I think that is really the only unknown metric we need to know about these parts and the only one not reported on.

All of the Raptor Lake and Raptor Lake Refresh parts are architecturally identical (except for the 14700K but you know what I mean). What the Refresh really brings is supposedly higher quality silicon. Without performance testing of this gen vs. prior at the same power levels we don't know if the silicon is really better, or by how much?

Let's face it with the 13900K and now especially the 14900K we have a chip that can reach ridiculous frequencies at the expense of ridiculous power and heat. Even 360 AIO's can't contain it, meaning exotic cooling is required to extract full performance.

So, given a cooling/power level the given user can "tolerate" how much better is the 14900K vs the 13900K? That's what I want to know. I have a feeling I won't until I buy one and test it.

So far the only good thing I see about this release it that it already drove down the 13900KS price!

It seems like the silicon is the same but they've improved thermals with a more polished IHS which allows them to squeek out a very small bump in frequency at a given power level.

H433x0n said:
ComputerBase data is totally useless.

Out of everybody I was hoping they’d do a power scaling comparison but they didn’t.

They still might, they tend to do reviews as a primary first look review followed by more focused looks into different aspects of the chip. Or they just might say it’s just a meaningless refresh and not spend the time.

reb0rn · Oct 17, 2023

inf64 said:
Found this in the comments section from one "news" website:
View attachment 87301

Insanity.

Would be more fair to post vs 7950x without 3D but AMD zealots can do here whatever they like

inf64 · Oct 17, 2023

reb0rn said:
Would be more fair to post vs 7950x without 3D but AMD zealots can do here whatever they like

It was a gaming power draw comparison, in case you missed it. But please keep coping hard.

Hulk · Oct 17, 2023

Hitman928 said:
It seems like the silicon is the same but they've improved thermals with a more polished IHS which allows them to squeek out a very small bump in frequency at a given power level.

They still might, they tend to do reviews as a primary first look review followed by more focused looks into different aspects of the chip. Or they just might say it’s just a meaningless refresh and not spend the time.

I don't see the point of posting all of that data showing what we already know. The unknown is the power comparison.

Panino Manino · Oct 17, 2023

What happened? I thought this gen would be the beginning of the end to AMD Zen line, but I was wrong. Almost no improvements, more power consumption, what?

I don't get it.

igor_kavinski · Oct 17, 2023

Panino Manino said:
What happened?

Reality

Intel doesn't get to change the laws of physics and make a new process node working in the given time just coz Pat says so.

gdansk · Oct 17, 2023

Panino Manino said:
What happened? I thought this gen would be the beginning of the end to AMD Zen line, but I was wrong. Almost no improvements, more power consumption, what?

I don't get it.

Did you really expect that from a refresh? It'll be good price/performance especially in mid-range (14700K[F] for example) but at the high-end we already had the 13900KS available.

Hitman928 · Oct 17, 2023

Hulk said:
I don't see the point of posting all of that data showing what we already know. The unknown is the power comparison.

Which power levels are you looking for? The 13900k and 14900k have the same power limits at stock so it's a direct comparison (assuming the reviewer was careful with motherboard settings) with an insignificant uplift at those power levels. Are you interested in if it performs differently at restricted power levels, like 100W and below?

igor_kavinski · Oct 17, 2023

By the way, anyone wishing to pull the trigger on the 14900K, I'll pay you $400 for it when you upgrade next year. Buy with confidence!

reb0rn · Oct 17, 2023

inf64 said:
It was a gaming power draw comparison, in case you missed it. But please keep coping hard.

Comparing it to 3D stacked chip as you well know games heavy use, and it also to save power?
So not you are here just to troll nothing more, you could post same pic vs 7950x and it would look almost same.. but hey

Hitman928 · Oct 17, 2023

@Hulk

Computerbase did tests at 125W, 253W, and unlimited. No difference in performance between the 13900k and 14900k at each step. If you are looking for tests at lower power than this, I haven't seen them. Don't think they would show anything different though.

Intel Core i9-14900K, i7-14700K & i5-14600K im Test

Zum Abschluss einer Ära gibt es noch einmal ein „Refresh“: Intel Core i9-14900K, Core i7-14700K & Core i5-14600K im ausführlichen Test.

www.computerbase.de

dullard · Oct 17, 2023

Panino Manino said:
What happened? I thought this gen would be the beginning of the end to AMD Zen line, but I was wrong. Almost no improvements, more power consumption, what?

I don't get it.

Why would you think a 100 MHz to 200 MHz bump would do anything, let alone be "the beginning of the end to AMD Zen line"? I'm fairly convinced that Intel came out with a 14th generation label simply to avoid ending on the number 13. Other than a small 3% to 5% thermal velocity boost speed bump, there was nothing in Raptor Lake Refresh.

Meteor Lake is where things start to get interesting. There will be no "end to AMD Zen line", but at least there will be a variety of chips each with different compelling arguments.

igor_kavinski · Oct 17, 2023

With the heat dissipation improvements, I think Intel could refresh the refresh with an extra E-core cluster and probably still keep power consumption below 13900KS.

dullard · Oct 17, 2023

igor_kavinski said:
With the heat dissipation improvements, I think Intel could refresh the refresh with an extra E-core cluster and probably still keep power consumption below 13900KS.

I think putting on one more ring stop would really hamper the chip. Going from 10 to 12 stops was already bad enough.

A 6P/24E chip would be far more compelling and would still only have 12 ring stops.

inf64 · Oct 17, 2023

reb0rn said:
Comparing it to 3D stacked chip as you well know games heavy use, and it also to save power?
So not you are here just to troll nothing more, you could post same pic vs 7950x and it would look almost same.. but hey

I can post these as well

Power draw:

Performance:

14900K has:
~6% higher MT performance vs 7950X3D with an "amazing" 2.5x (!!!) higher power draw.
~2% lower MT performance vs 7950X with slightly less "amazing" 1.6-1.8x higher power draw.

It's a hot piece of turd, nothing more, nothing less. The best chip out of the bunch is 14700K, which still has rather high power draw for the MT and gaming performance workloads. And yes, X3D is a real product, it exists and won't magically go away if it doesn't suit your agenda. It utterly destroys any other chip currently on the market for basically most workloads except the few ST ones. All that while consuming HALF of the power of 13900/14900K.

inf64 · Oct 17, 2023

Oh I almost forgot, just for our friend @reb0rn. Let us all remember this great burn :

Page 298 - Discussion - Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

Page 298 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

Page 329 - Discussion - Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

Page 329 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

You'll never learn

Thunder 57 · Oct 17, 2023

In another thread I mentioned that RPL-R was rumored to have higher power consumption but was quickly told they have the same TDP. Well, according to Intel, that is true. But, anyone with a brain can see it is not. It's a damn joke honestly. Give us Arrow Lake Intel. Although rumors on that look pretty bleak as well.

Hitman928 · Oct 17, 2023

Thunder 57 said:
In another thread I mentioned that RPL-R was rumored to have higher power consumption but was quickly told they have the same TDP. Well, according to Intel, that is true. But, anyone with a brain can see it is not. It's a damn joke honestly. Give us Arrow Lake Intel. Although rumors on that look pretty bleak as well.

They do have the same TDP, however, with many motherboards ignoring any kind of power limits out of the box, you get results like you've shown. The reason RPL-R goes higher in power is because the improved IHS allows for higher power consumption before thermal throttling limits everything. Unfortunately, at those power levels, you've already hit a frequency wall so even with the increased power consumption, you are looking at like 1% increase in frequency at most.

Edit: Hardware Canucks also found that their Asus board that adhered to Intel's PL2/1 limits with their 13900k by default, would let the 14900k run without a power limit by default. I imagine this was done to artificially show an increase in performance between the generations. Just something to keep in mind as some reviewers might not be careful about this type of thing.

Thunder 57 · Oct 17, 2023

Hitman928 said:
They do have the same TDP, however, with many motherboards ignoring any kind of power limits out of the box, you get results like you've shown. The reason RPL-R goes higher in power is because the improved IHS allows for higher power consumption before thermal throttling limits everything. Unfortunately, at those power levels, you've already hit a frequency wall so even with the increased power consumption, you are looking at like 1% increase in frequency at most.

Edit: Hardware Canucks also found that their Asus board that adhered to Intel's PL2/1 limits with their 13900k by default, would let the 14900k run without a power limit by default. I imagine this was done to artificially show an increase in performance between the generations. Just something to keep in mind as some reviewers might not be careful about this type of thing.

This has been talken about at great length. TDP is a useless number these days. You are right that motherboards generally do not enforce it other than ODMs. The fact that 125W TDP ranges from 169W to 428W shows that. I guess what I am saying is I want Intel to release decent CPU's again rather than space heaters.

H433x0n · Oct 17, 2023

Hitman928 said:
@Hulk

Computerbase did tests at 125W, 253W, and unlimited. No difference in performance between the 13900k and 14900k at each step. If you are looking for tests at lower power than this, I haven't seen them. Don't think they would show anything different though.

View attachment 87309

Intel Core i9-14900K, i7-14700K & i5-14600K im Test

Zum Abschluss einer Ära gibt es noch einmal ein „Refresh“: Intel Core i9-14900K, Core i7-14700K & Core i5-14600K im ausführlichen Test.

www.computerbase.de

That's wild. This would suggest that the base clocks are just a straight up lie / false.

Hitman928 · Oct 17, 2023

H433x0n said:
That's wild. This would suggest that the base clocks are just a straight up lie / false.

It seems so. The refreshed parts due have better thermals it seems with the improved IHS, but no one I’ve seen has shown that it boosts frequencies more than like 80 MHz or so best case. Maybe Intel has some corner case test environment where their increased speed ratings come from?

jpiniero · Oct 17, 2023

H433x0n said:
That's wild. This would suggest that the base clocks are just a straight up lie / false.

The base clock is just a "guarantee" that it will be able to sustain a clock. On the i9, it's 3.2 Ghz for the P cores so anything above that really isn't a lie.

Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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