Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

Eug · Nov 10, 2020

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:

M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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Doug S · Oct 23, 2023

Eug said:
Mark Gurman is guessing there is a Mac event next week.

Last update with M2 Pro/Max products before M3 comes next year.

smalM · Oct 23, 2023

FlameTail said:
What is AMX?

A matrix math coprocessor which is incorporated in each CPU cluster, they can be used by every CPU core of that cluster. P-core clusters have big AMX units, E-core clusters smaller ones. Apple added AMX to the A13 but the units were relatively tiny. They made them bigger in A14 and even bigger in A15. The units seem not to have changed since then. Using QEMM a M2 can achive 1.7 TFLOPS (FP64). I marked them in a die shot of an A15.

Eug said:
Just as a casual observer, I will say this:
2. That article says TSMC is already in N3E volume production.

And C.C. Wei didn't agree with Digitimes as usual...
"N3E will leverage the strong foundation of N3 to further extend our N3 family with enhanced performance, power and yield and provide complete platform support for both HPC and smartphone applications. N3E has passed qualification and achieved performance and yield targets and will start volume production in fourth quarter of this year."
Earnings Call 2023-10-19

Glo. · Oct 23, 2023

Doug S said:
Last update with M2 Pro/Max products before M3 comes next year.

What is supposed to be updated, considering that iMac and all of CTO MacBook Pro 13, 14 and 16 inch configurations are on very long shipping times, suggesting that they are the ones updated?

iMac? Sure, it can get new M2 CPUs.

But what is available for MBPs? They already are on M2, and updates to CTO configurations are released quietly, without increasing the shipping times - Radeon updates over the years, for example.

Doug S · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
What is supposed to be updated, considering that iMac and all of CTO MacBook Pro 13, 14 and 16 inch configurations are on very long shipping times, suggesting that they are the ones updated?

iMac? Sure, it can get new M2 CPUs.

But what is available for MBPs? They already are on M2, and updates to CTO configurations are released quietly, without increasing the shipping times - Radeon updates over the years, for example.

Don't ask me, I didn't make the prediction about new ones coming.

All I know is that since we haven't seen M3 yet there's not a chance in hell of seeing M3 Pro/Max so if those MBPs are getting updated it is something else - maybe upgraded RAM configs, maybe yields are high enough on M2 Pro/Max to bump the clock rates a bit, maybe they are upgrading the display?

Glo. · Oct 24, 2023

Doug S said:
Don't ask me, I didn't make the prediction about new ones coming.

All I know is that since we haven't seen M3 yet there's not a chance in hell of seeing M3 Pro/Max so if those MBPs are getting updated it is something else - maybe upgraded RAM configs, maybe yields are high enough on M2 Pro/Max to bump the clock rates a bit, maybe they are upgrading the display?

Upgraded RAM configs could be possible, but as I have said, Apple is doing silent updates of those, usually, like with Radeon CTO options have been added.

Secondly, updating just the RAM and SSD configs is a big F You to everybody who bought MacBook Pro's this year.

And Apple has NEVER done this. Remember, marketing and brand perception is too big of a factor for Apple to do something like this.

jpiniero · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
And Apple has NEVER done this. Remember, marketing and brand perception is too big of a factor for Apple to do something like this.

Like "The New iPad" / iPad 4?

Glo. · Oct 24, 2023

30th October, 5PM pacific time.

Scary Fast, Online event.

I think we can see where this is going, and it is not going to be only RAM and SSD upgrades for MacBook Pro's.

jpiniero · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
30th October, 5PM pacific time.

Scary Fast, Online event.

I think we can see where this is going, and it is not going to be only RAM and SSD upgrades for MacBook Pro's.

That's why I brought up iPad 4. New design but no M3. Then refreshed with M3 when it's ready.

A Monday and 5 PM Pacific is also very strange. I know Halloween is Tuesday but it's not like it's a holiday or something.

GC2:CS · Oct 24, 2023

smalM said:
A matrix math coprocessor which is incorporated in each CPU cluster, they can be used by every CPU core of that cluster. P-core clusters have big AMX units, E-core clusters smaller ones. Apple added AMX to the A13 but the units were relatively tiny. They made them bigger in A14 and even bigger in A15. The units seem not to have changed since then. Using QEMM a M2 can achive 1.7 TFLOPS (FP64). I marked them in a die shot of an A15.

And C.C. Wei didn't agree with Digitimes as usual...
"N3E will leverage the strong foundation of N3 to further extend our N3 family with enhanced performance, power and yield and provide complete platform support for both HPC and smartphone applications. N3E has passed qualification and achieved performance and yield targets and will start volume production in fourth quarter of this year."
Earnings Call 2023-10-19

Why do you need one AMX instead of just relying on a dedicated NPU ? Why would you like to have matrix operations running on a scalar CPU ?

Orfosaurio · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
30th October, 5PM pacific time.

Scary Fast, Online event.

I think we can see where this is going, and it is not going to be only RAM and SSD upgrades for MacBook Pro's.

M3?

Tigerick · Oct 24, 2023

Yep, it is definitely M3 focused event; "Scary fast" indicate speed improvement of upcoming M3 series. I think at this stage, there is no doubt the upcoming M3 and M3 Pro/Max/Ultra are all based on N3B process.

We should be expecting new iMac, MBP13, 14 and 16; no MBA 13 & 15 update though. Let's see whether Apple will update the base configuration of M3 to 12/512 and M3 Pro to 24/1TB....

FlameTail · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. · Oct 24, 2023

https://twitter.com/x/status/1716871328794620072

Even Kuo says M3 Macs are released.

Tigerick · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1716871328794620072

Even Kuo says M3 Macs are released.

The new Macs are not high volume models; I am expecting new MBP13 to be priced at $1,499. Thus Apple is not expecting huge sales of M3 series, that explains low shipments as seen by Kuo

poke01 · Oct 24, 2023

Tigerick said:
The new Macs are not high volume models; I am expecting new MBP13 to be priced at $1,499. Thus Apple is not expecting huge sales of M3 series, that explains low shipments as seen by Kuo

Or it could be the 14"/16" macbooks

Tigerick · Oct 24, 2023

poke01 said:
Or it could be the 14"/16" macbooks

Or all the above models

Glo. · Oct 24, 2023

poke01 said:
Or it could be the 14"/16" macbooks

All, 13, 14 and 16 inch MBPs experience increased shipping times on CTO configurations.

gdansk · Oct 24, 2023

What are the current expectations for M3 - N3(B?) with the same e/p cores as A17?

Eug · Oct 24, 2023

I used my m3 MacBook on my trip last weekend. It’s not scary fast but served my travel needs just fine.

gdansk · Oct 24, 2023

Eug said:
I used my m3 MacBook on my trip last weekend. It’s not scary fast but served my travel needs just fine.

When your MacBook is so old it sounds futuristic.

Mopetar · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
30th October, 5PM pacific time.

Scary Fast, Online event.

Given the date and theming, I hope Tim Cook comes out on stage dressed like a vampire.

I suspect that anything "scary fast" is due to custom silicon or accelerators that weren't in previous silicon as opposed to major improvements in core performance. I'd be glad to be wrong on that, but if they wanted that kind of miracle, the event would have to be in December.

trivik12 · Oct 24, 2023

Interesting that Apple decided to pull in this event at the last moment. That is good news for customers.

Glo. · Oct 24, 2023

trivik12 said:
Interesting that Apple decided to pull in this event at the last moment. That is good news for customers.

Qualcomm.

Ajay · Oct 24, 2023

Glo. said:
Qualcomm.

What?

Ajay · Oct 24, 2023

gdansk said:
What are the current expectations for M3 - N3(B?) with the same e/p cores as A17?

If it's N3B, then it would make sense to use the A17 cores (reuse same functional units). If, but some strange miracle, Apple is getting enough early wafers of N3E to do a limited launch - then I would still think they would be essentially the same A17 cores (probably bug fixes, maybe tweaks for high clocks), but everything would have had to be resynthesized using the N3E PDK.

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