Discussion I see no difference between 60Hz and 120+hz

ibex333 · Nov 22, 2023

Let's discuss the differences between refresh rates for people that DO NOT PLAY ANY FPS GAMES. I hate FPS games like Call of Duty, so I can't comment on those.

I see no difference between 60Hz and 120+hz. Am I simply crazy? I checked this with RPGs like Fallout, Baldurs gate, and Encased. I also play RTS games such as Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2 and Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War.

It must be said that not all of these games can do 120-144Hz by virtue of my RTX 3070 not being able to push so much frames @ 1440p. However, some of these games, it very much can. I confirmed with Afterburner.

All my connections are correct. My 1440p display is very much @ 144Hz. I checked that both in windows and ingame. Freesync is on.

On the other hand, my 60Hz 4k monitor looks so much better due to resolution, yet there's no decrease in "smoothness" compared to higher Hz/FPS.

What is it that I have to do, exactly, to notice this profound, enormous change in game smoothness everyone is raving about?

It's so upsetting to hear from gamers something along the lines of "Well, if you don't see it, clearly you are a lost cause, and there's nothing further to discuss here." It's like a group of pothead friends smoking weed and then a "newbie" says he can't feel anything after taking a puff. They pass the joint to him again, and again he says it's just burnt nasty grass. Finally, he gets ostracized, and friends label him an idiot and a black sheep.

CP5670 · Nov 22, 2023

Just try moving the mouse around the desktop, or scrolling a webpage with the middle mouse.

Heartbreaker · Nov 25, 2023

Some people are more sensitive and I do think you would notice more if play FPS type games were aiming and related timing are issues.

On overhead perspective games I think it's much more tolerant of lower FPS.

Hans Gruber · Nov 25, 2023

If you have another system with a 60hz monitor. Play a game like Counter Strike on both 144hz and then 60hz. You will think your 60hz monitor is broken if you play 144hz first. Some people have 144hz monitors and have them set to 60hz. Maybe you should check to make sure you are getting 144hz or whatever your monitor maximum setting is.

nightspydk · Dec 2, 2023

Basically I agree with OP though 60 hz is on the low side and taxing on my eyes. I prefer the same games and there is no point in getting a high hz screen imo for guys like us. Also a lot ppl forget that you need a rig to run those frames to take advantage of the refresh and then often you'll need no decrease on the actual eye candy. I have had faster screens but right now I am using a 100 hz screen and that just suits me perfectly.

Don't believe the hype

WelshBloke · Dec 2, 2023

CP5670 said:
Just try moving the mouse around the desktop, or scrolling a webpage with the middle mouse.

When I got my new monitor (@144hz) I kept my old one (@60hz) as a secondary monitor. I never had a problem with 60hz before but after dragging a window from the new monitor to the old one I got rid of the 60hz monitor and just have the one 144hz one now!
The desktop is actually the easiest place to see the difference.

mikeymikec · Dec 2, 2023

nightspydk said:
Basically I agree with OP though 60 hz is on the low side and taxing on my eyes. I prefer the same games and there is no point in getting a high hz screen imo for guys like us. Also a lot ppl forget that you need a rig to run those frames to take advantage of the refresh and then often you'll need no decrease on the actual eye candy.

This is largely why I don't do it. I've been playing at 60Hz for as long as I've had an LCD, I didn't notice a sudden climb down in smoothness when I changed from running CRTs at =>85Hz down to LCD at 60Hz and I'm happy where I am. 60Hz looks fine, vsync on, it looks smooth.

My current monitor can do 75Hz and I have it set at that in Linux (my main / non-gaming OS). Maybe the pointer movement is smoother but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pass a test on that one.

nightspydk · Dec 2, 2023

@mikeymikec
Right now I am running a 60hz and a 100hz and with pointer movement the difference is negligible. If I lower the refresh on the 60 there is a significant slowdown. On my older tv I also had a pc conneted at 30hz and there was no problem with pointer movement, so I think these guys just havent calibrated stuff proper. Also if you find your pointer slow there are ways around that.
Just my cents
There are other important features to take into account when games are concerned like response time.

BFG10K · Dec 2, 2023

I didn't notice a big difference either when I first switched from 60Hz to 144Hz, aside from reduced screen tearing as I don't use *sync.

Try using 144Hz for a week and then switch back to 60Hz, you'll notice a big difference.

Also you don't need a framerate to match the Hz to see a difference, this is a myth. I run 63FPS capped and there's still a massive difference between 165Hz and 60Hz, even isometric ARPGs like Titan Quest.

nightspydk · Dec 2, 2023

You might be right about that, I have onle jumped from 60 to 120 and back to 100 and didnt feel a big difference. What I was trying to say is when comparing it might be best to actually use a 60hz for 60hz and not lowering the refresh on a higher hz screen. I have seen problems in that department. Also are you using the same mouse and do the screens have similar specs. It is not that simple imo.

Leeea · Dec 22, 2023

window scroll is instantly noticeable for me.

overhead view is instantly noticeable, even in games like civilization.

Even in fps capped games, it is noticeable. I think it might be as simple as the monitor is just better, and the pixel itself is flipping that much faster and clearer between frames. IE: The pixel is spending less time as a blurry color, and more time in the correct color. Strobe really helps make higher framerates matter on LCD, enable it if you have it. That said, it will be inferior to alternative non-LCD tech -cough oled cough-.

mikeymikec · Dec 22, 2023

Leeea said:
window scroll is instantly noticeable for me.

I always disable smooth scrolling Who wants to waste half a second per scroll waiting for the text to stop moving? I don't get it.

yottabit · Dec 22, 2023

It’s possible those old ass games you’re talking about have their animations locked at 60 or even 30 fps. The screen might draw at 144 fps or whatever but that doesn’t mean the game engine is actually taking advantage of it

I notice a huge difference on my iDevices with the 120 Hz, even on mobile games. I’ve avoided high refresh rate on desktop for the same “60 Hz is fine unless you directly compare it to high refresh rate” reason as some others here. I’m already using 4k60 monitors so eventually I will upgrade to 4k high refresh rate, maybe when the 5090 releases 😆

in VR the difference is really apparent, 60 Hz will make me motion sick quickly , 90 Hz fine, 120 Hz silky smooth

It’s hard to switch back and forth scrolling on 60 Hz and 120 Hz screens without feeling a bit sick

Anyways I maintain that high refresh rate displays were created by the GPU lobbyists. Just when we were starting to be able to play console ports at decent settings on a xx60 or xx70 class card 😂

Leeea · Dec 22, 2023

mikeymikec said:
I always disable smooth scrolling Who wants to waste half a second per scroll waiting for the text to stop moving? I don't get it.

On a my eyes follow the text as it scrolls up and I do not have to relocate my reading position. The text needs to retain its crisp clean look as it scrolls, and it needs to scroll smoothly with no judder or visible jumping.

Spinning the wheel quickly will make the scroll move very quickly.

Hans Gruber · Dec 22, 2023

Take a picture of your 60hz screen and one that is 144hz. Report back with your findings. Video works as well. High refresh rates show no scan lines.

CP5670 · Dec 24, 2023

yottabit said:
It’s possible those old ass games you’re talking about have their animations locked at 60 or even 30 fps. The screen might draw at 144 fps or whatever but that doesn’t mean the game engine is actually taking advantage of it

This happens in all the Bethesda games, the Doom 3-based games and many PS3/360 era console ports. The Bethesda games all have mods to run properly at 120+fps.

Another thing is watching movies. They are usually 24fps and stutter on a 60hz screen but look right at 120hz or 144hz, which divide 24 evenly.

BTRY B 529th FA BN · Mar 5, 2024

People who own pets also say they don't notice their pet odor.

gdansk · Mar 6, 2024

Between 60Hz and 120Hz you should notice even from moving the mouse around.
But I couldn't tell the difference between 120Hz and 160Hz that easily. I had to play a FPS to notice.

Brainonska511 · Mar 9, 2024

I found the difference somewhat subtle for refresh rate, moving from 24" 1080/60Hz to 27" 1440/165Hz. Things are a little smoother, like mouse and basic desktop animations. I don't play much FPS though, so that might be why I don't notice as much.

mindless1 · Mar 10, 2024

ibex333 said:
What is it that I have to do, exactly, to notice this profound, enormous change in game smoothness everyone is raving about?

Everyone isn't raving about it. You made up fiction then here we are now...

Recognize the difference between marketing, and people then paying money for toys, then trying to justify doing so after the fact.

mindless1 · Mar 10, 2024

gdansk said:
Between 60Hz and 120Hz you should notice even from moving the mouse around.

No. Unless you have something else causing lag already so you are not really comparing a mouse position update of 60Hz /s vs 120. If you do have that lag, and 120Hz helps, by all means, get the lag down.

gdansk · Mar 10, 2024

mindless1 said:
No. Unless you have something else causing lag already so you are not really comparing a mouse position update of 60Hz /s vs 120. If you do have that lag, and 120Hz helps, by all means, get the lag down.

Uh-huh... sure. Switch your monitor from 120+ to 60 and tell me you cannot tell the difference by moving the mouse alone. You can.

mindless1 · Mar 10, 2024

^ I can tell a little difference between 45Hz and 60Hz. Above that, no confidence I could ABX blind test, pick out which was which even between 60Hz and 90Hz.

Is your mouse polling rate too low?

gdansk · Mar 10, 2024

mindless1 said:
^ I can tell a little difference between 45Hz and 60Hz. Above that, no confidence I could ABX blind test, pick out which was which even between 60Hz and 90Hz.

Is your mouse polling rate too low?

Nope. Conversely, how can you not tell the difference between rendered 60Hz and 120Hz mouse cursor movement unless your operating system is updating cursor position less than 120 times per second...

mindless1 · Mar 10, 2024

^ How I can not tell is that it does not need to be over 60Hz to appear smooth, more than that quickly has diminishing returns, unless you have something else wrong so you aren't actually seeing the new mouse position in every frame refresh.

Discussion I see no difference between 60Hz and 120+hz

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