Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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I wonder if Dell went to the trouble of developing a full ATX replacement if some standards body would take it up like JEDEC did for CAMM.

Seems like a modern overhaul of overall PC system design is long overdue.
Well memory modules take up a relatively small part of the motherboard, so I guess it is not the most impossible engineering task to adopt the ATX standard to CAMM2 instead of DIMM.
 

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
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I wonder if Dell went to the trouble of developing a full ATX replacement if some standards body would take it up like JEDEC did for CAMM.
well the last time Intel and Dell tried that, we got BTX. lol.
I prefer something like easy to plug rectangular modules. Everything covered with a plastic shroud to protect the internal electronics and having microchannel spaces in the plastic for airflow. Make it so easy that a five year old can assemble their own PC.
Yeah, so Xbox Series X tower but PC.
Is Threadripper going CAMM2 or DDR6?
Threadripper is explicitly slightly different server stuff, it runs RDIMMs quite literally.
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,273
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well the last time Intel and Dell tried that, we got BTX. lol.
True, but that was over a decade ago now.

In fact initial specs for the range of BTX form factor came literally 20 years ago in 2004.

(plus according to Wikipedia Intel basically abandoned it about the same time that they launched Core 2)

Time and enough for a second try with more backing behind it, at least a major mobo manufacturer or 2.

Plus definitely all the GPU manufacturers should get in on that action given it's probably the component that puts the most physical stress on the mobo at present.

That being said, looking over the BTX description it sounds like Intel/etc already thought of quite a bit back then - seems like with some modernisation and a bit more industry unity behind it that it could be successful.
 

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
3,649
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That being said, looking over the BTX description it sounds like Intel/etc already thought of quite a bit back then - seems like with some modernisation and a bit more industry unity behind it that it could be successful.
Part of the issue isn't that ATX stinks. It's that the PCIe card form-factor also stinks.
DC GPUs moved onto OAM/SXM eons ago, we plebs still have to cope.
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,273
2,549
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Well memory modules take up a relatively small part of the motherboard, so I guess it is not the most impossible engineering task to adopt the ATX standard to CAMM2 instead of DIMM.
True, but not the reason I was bringing up a revamped form factor.

ATX suffers numerous problems, including large GFX card weight causing sagging on the mobo without some form of bracing.

Either the GFX card should be subdivided like the PSU into its own standardised chamber with all the physical support it could need, or they need to design proper physical support for large, heavy extension cards directly into the mobo form factor spec.

For context, the initial ATX spec is almost 30 years old now (1995).

It was designed for systems very different from those we have today.

Back then you didn't even need large heatsinks for CPU's, the Pentium Pro only just being introduced in November of that year, and the first 3D only accelerator card based on the 3Dfx Voodoo1 was introduced in October of the following year.
 

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,273
2,549
136
Make it so easy that a five year old can assemble their own PC
As someone whose OCD has made the last 2 PC assemblies a living hell I would definitely embrace easier - especially for M.2 installation which is enough to drive me to enterprise U.2 solutions 😅

But making it so easy a 5 yr old can assemble it also means making it so easy that a 5 yr old can DISassemble it, which carries its own problems.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,733
5,496
136
True, but not the reason I was bringing up a revamped form factor.

ATX suffers numerous problems, including large GFX card weight causing sagging on the mobo without some form of bracing.

Either the GFX card should be subdivided like the PSU into its own standardised chamber with all the physical support it could need, or they need to design proper physical support for large, heavy extension cards directly into the mobo form factor spec.

For context, the initial ATX spec is almost 30 years old now (1995).

It was designed for systems very different from those we have today.

Back then you didn't even need large heatsinks for CPU's, the Pentium Pro only just being introduced in November of that year, and the first 3D only accelerator card based on the 3Dfx Voodoo1 was introduced in October of the following year.
In regard to support of heavy videocards, I think that you have to consider the PCIe trace length, and maybe a revision of the ATX standard with an extra screw hole for mounting a "clamp" or something similar could fix it. Also the designers of video cards should focus more on this.
 

misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
499
592
136
Just a curiosity, but as seen in all those sandwich cases with the GPU routed at the back of the board, couldn't be a solution to actually put the PCIE slot much closer to the CPU but on the backside and not vertical but horizontal aligned with the motherboard?
 

Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
877
998
136
Just a curiosity, but as seen in all those sandwich cases with the GPU routed at the back of the board, couldn't be a solution to actually put the PCIE slot much closer to the CPU but on the backside and not vertical but horizontal aligned with the motherboard?
Airflow would be a problem for most tower cases. This could be made but would never (IMO) be made a standard.
 
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