8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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SolidQ said:

Senua's Saga - Hellblade II GGPU test​


Test scene


would be interesting how is 7800XT
Click to expand...

Well, I said it would be a disaster for most cards. It clearly likes AMD cards, which is ok and besides the point really.

The point is, VRAM is irrelevant for one more UE5 game. Also shown here.


You will take that 1080p 37fps on the 3060 12GB and you will like it! Which is beaten by many 8GB cards too.

When I tell you that UE5 is not vram limited and that you will need correct settings anyway, people here are mocking. Keep mocking.
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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SolidQ said:
Here is video 4k+ FSR3, ~9gb

Just watched some stream on 3070ti. There was crazy drops to 2-3 fps. 1440p max setting
Click to expand...
First of, I have said many times that I don't care about the 3070/ti, because I got a 3060ti instead, because I had a very specific 1080p/60 target and this is the 8GB card I care about. The 3070/ti in my book, are also strong 1080p cards. Anything above that, or non using DLSS, is weird at best, ignorant at the worst. In terms of pricing, I have agreed that these cards where out of place. Didn't buy them.

That being said, I tested it myself on various systems and still ongoing (vids just uploaded if anyone cares). On the 4070ti, 4k/dlss balanced/high minus, which means shadows and volumetrics, are one tier down. This is a 22minute run. VRAM did go up to 9.5GBs and this is way lower than native 4K with not even maxed graphics.

(non monetized vid)

The 4070ti, could give a quite steady 60fps experience. These are correct settings no matter how you see it. The 4070ti IS gpu power limited.

On the other hand, testing the game on the 3060ti required 1080p/dlss quality, which essentially means 720p. This is a 17minute run. The 3060ti did a very good job with max settings essentially, even higher than the 4070ti (but lower res ofc). In retrospect, the above mentioned reductions, would be preferable for the 3060ti too, meaning shadows and volumetrics one tier down, in order for it to be able to give a more convincing 60fps experience.

(non monetized vid)

Gamegpu above says the 3070ti is at 39fps at 1440p. I mean it's already unplayable. it is a game with heavy camera movement in all directions. So my question is, the user starts the game at 1440p on a 3070ti. He sees that right off the bat, the game is lower than 40fps. What is the correct course of action? SET the effing thing at correct settings, to make it playable.

Did you see any 3-4fps drops above on the 3060ti? No. Is it bad? Is it ugly? Is it unplayable? Far from it.
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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Mopetar said:
So VRAM isn't irrelevant? Color me surprised.

Did you check the comments on the video to see if anyone was yelling something about correct settings?
Click to expand...
At 1440p, that the user above saw, the 3070ti, according to gamegpu, is at 39fps. Even if it had 32GBs it would still be unplayable.

The 3070ti at 1440p/DLSS goes to 57fps. Take down a couple of settings as I did above and boom, no problem.

At 1080p, the top 8GB with the last 8GB card, have 84% difference. The 3070ti is on par with the 4070. The 3060 is beaten by EIGHT 8GB cards. Gamegpu has shared their testing save file, so people can test themselves.

The top 12GB card with the last 12GB card have 86% difference. Yes, it is absolutely gpu power limited. And unplayable on most cards as it is. Correct settings are mandatory for 95% of the users out there.
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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P.S.

The XBOX s X has framedrops to 22fps


That is with a pixel count of

Xbox Series X: Dynamic 2560x1070p | 30fps (common 2304x936p)
Click to expand...

as Analista says. Will check with DF too.

XBOX surely has more than 8GBs ain't it? I don't see it getting helped in any way. Yeah I am gonna go with my 8GB 3060ti thank you very much. (The user's 4060ti is screaming fast later on, but he could have a 16GB model dunno,lol)
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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Techpowerup also published their own findings.

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II Performance Benchmark Review

In "Hellblade II," Senua returns, confronting her haunting past as one of gaming's most tragic heroes. Powered by Unreal Engine 5, the graphics are among the best we've ever seen, but hardware requirement are high, too. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, VRAM...
www.techpowerup.com

4060ti 8Gb vs 16GB same performance.... 7600XT vs 7600 have like 2-3fps differences (1080p-1440p).

So where are we getting at, is what I've been telling you all along. 7600XT and 4060ti 16GB users, essentially bought 1080p cards, where they are still going to use correct settings and they will have half their framebuffer sitting there, for truly heavy games.

Really can't wait for the genius that will say, HEY the 4060ti 16GB is like 62% faster at 4k with its whole 18fps,lol.

PS Also techpowerup is showing a much better picture for Nvidia cards. Just so you don't think gamegpu has anything against AMD that is....
 
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N

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,760
752
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psolord said:
First of, I have said many times that I don't care about the 3070/ti, because I got a 3060ti instead, because I had a very specific 1080p/60 target and this is the 8GB card I care about. The 3070/ti in my book, are also strong 1080p cards. Anything above that, or non using DLSS, is weird at best, ignorant at the worst. In terms of pricing, I have agreed that these cards where out of place. Didn't buy them.

That being said, I tested it myself on various systems and still ongoing (vids just uploaded if anyone cares). On the 4070ti, 4k/dlss balanced/high minus, which means shadows and volumetrics, are one tier down. This is a 22minute run. VRAM did go up to 9.5GBs and this is way lower than native 4K with not even maxed graphics.

(non monetized vid)

The 4070ti, could give a quite steady 60fps experience. These are correct settings no matter how you see it. The 4070ti IS gpu power limited.

On the other hand, testing the game on the 3060ti required 1080p/dlss quality, which essentially means 720p. This is a 17minute run. The 3060ti did a very good job with max settings essentially, even higher than the 4070ti (but lower res ofc). In retrospect, the above mentioned reductions, would be preferable for the 3060ti too, meaning shadows and volumetrics one tier down, in order for it to be able to give a more convincing 60fps experience.

(non monetized vid)

Gamegpu above says the 3070ti is at 39fps at 1440p. I mean it's already unplayable. it is a game with heavy camera movement in all directions. So my question is, the user starts the game at 1440p on a 3070ti. He sees that right off the bat, the game is lower than 40fps. What is the correct course of action? SET the effing thing at correct settings, to make it playable.

Did you see any 3-4fps drops above on the 3060ti? No. Is it bad? Is it ugly? Is it unplayable? Far from it.
Click to expand...
Not only do you continue to move the goal posts, you have somehow turned the goal posts into a horse and proceeded to beat it do death. Then did it again and took pictures. That poor, poor goalhorsepost...
 
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FoxconnRageEX

Junior Member
May 22, 2024
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psolord said:
Techpowerup also published their own findings.

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II Performance Benchmark Review

In "Hellblade II," Senua returns, confronting her haunting past as one of gaming's most tragic heroes. Powered by Unreal Engine 5, the graphics are among the best we've ever seen, but hardware requirement are high, too. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, VRAM...
www.techpowerup.com

4060ti 8Gb vs 16GB same performance.... 7600XT vs 7600 have like 2-3fps differences (1080p-1440p).

So where are we getting at, is what I've been telling you all along. 7600XT and 4060ti 16GB users, essentially bought 1080p cards, where they are still going to use correct settings and they will have half their framebuffer sitting there, for truly heavy games.

Really can't wait for the genius that will say, HEY the 4060ti 16GB is like 62% faster at 4k with its whole 18fps,lol.

PS Also techpowerup is showing a much better picture for Nvidia cards. Just so you don't think gamegpu has anything against AMD that is....
Click to expand...
nVidia has proven to be better at memory management than AMD, but it's not significant. It could mean the difference between an 8GB AMD card dropping FPS sooner than an nVidia one, but I don't have any apples to apples comparisons especially for later tech.

We can conclude that this benchmark has no real Vram impact on any gen of GPU.

It's hitting Radeon cards differently than nVidia with the latest architectures, but we can see the 7600 and 3060 12GB matching nearly,. showing the nVidia code path superiority but no Vram issue on either or the 7600 would be much lower in FPS.

The Radeon 7900 XTX and XT are perfoming admirably here actually and show great perf / dollar.

 
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FoxconnRageEX

Junior Member
May 22, 2024
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SolidQ said:
9-10 fps gaming. On Volcano area also massive drops even in gameplay
Click to expand...
That's a 3070.

Is there a case for a matching 8GB AMD GPU?

Do state, I said that nVidia typically are better at it than AMd, you have shown an nVidia card.

I did state that we don't have apples to apples comparisons.

If you want to be taken seriously, starting to actually lead by benchmarking long drawn out scenarios will win people to your side.

More development needs to be done in building an argument.
 
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H

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,526
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FoxconnRageEX said:
Not at all, I am addressing your reply to my post.

If you want substantiated and reasoned benchmark results which incorporate Vram usage over time, someone should lead with action instead of arguing all day long.
Click to expand...

I'm not a reviewer by profession, so asking a consumer to lead the charge here is a very strange thing to post. Even professional reviewers don't have time to play every game in depth. It's a community effort as no one could hope to do it by themselves. You seem to be ignoring the efforts and inputs of many community members showing their results and reviewers who do try to follow up on such issues as the community finds them. I am happy to contribute if/when I run into issues, but I also have a 16 GB card, so it wouldn't be very relevant to the discussion at hand. Lastly, if you make a claim, it is up to you to support your claim with your own research or that provided by others.
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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FoxconnRageEX said:
That's a 3070.

Is there a case for a matching 8GB AMD GPU?

Do state, I said that nVidia typically are better at it than AMd, you have shown an nVidia card.

I did state that we don't have apples to apples comparisons.

If you want to be taken seriously, starting to actually lead by benchmarking long drawn out scenarios will win people to your side.

More development needs to be done in building an argument.
Click to expand...
Who were you before your were banned?

This is very disingenuous.

Clearly the bar graph you show can be taken at face be value that frame rates aren’t impacted by vram. It’s a fallacy to say that this is the only dimension that matters when game engines adapt the experience to maintain framerate, as has been shown numerous times in this thread.
 
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FoxconnRageEX

Junior Member
May 22, 2024
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Hitman928 said:
I'm not a reviewer by profession, so asking a consumer to lead the charge here is a very strange thing to post. Even professional reviewers don't have time to play every game in depth. It's a community effort as no one could hope to do it by themselves. You seem to be ignoring the efforts and inputs of many community members showing their results and reviewers who do try to follow up on such issues as the community finds them. I am happy to contribute if/when I run into issues, but I also have a 16 GB card, so it wouldn't be very relevant to the discussion at hand. Lastly, if you make a claim, it is up to you to support your claim with your own research or that provided by others.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Please do point out where I have not substantiated my claims.

Thank you.
blckgrffn said:
Who were you before your were banned?
Click to expand...
Not had an account here, I am from LTT.

FireyFoxiconnRageEX - Linus Tech Tips

linustechtips.com

I just don;t need to pretend I am new to this universe to just start investing in a discussion, do you feel the need to?
 
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J

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,805
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blckgrffn said:
Who were you before your were banned?

This is very disingenuous.

Clearly the bar graph you show can be taken at face be value that frame rates aren’t impacted by vram. It’s a fallacy to say that this is the only dimension that matters when game engines adapt the experience to maintain framerate, as has been shown numerous times in this thread.
Click to expand...

It does seem like nVidia does do better in memory management. But only so much. It's not going to fix a situation where there is heavy VRAM pressure.
 
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H

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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FoxconnRageEX said:
I have a video that speaks about Nvidia's memory compression tech, they vastly improved this in GTX 10 - RTX 3K series, image quality was worse than AMD due to it.

Memory compression.

Click to expand...

First video: The Doom example is showing that a GPU with a larger VRAM can handle textures better than ones with smaller VRAM (the 970 was an odd duck where only 3.5 GB of the 4 GB was fast and the last bit was slow which caused issues similar to running out of VRAM in games that could fill the whole VRAM). It also favors AMD in this example (for reasons already explained, but not sure why this would be posted as support for NV having better memory management).

Second video: Memory compression reduces bandwidth requirements/improves efficiency.

These do not prove your memory management statement.
 
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FoxconnRageEX

Junior Member
May 22, 2024
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Hitman928 said:
The Doom example is showing that a GPU with a larger VRAM can handle textures better than ones with smaller VRAM (the 970 was an odd duck where only 3.5 GB of the 4 GB was fast and the last bit was slow which caused issues similar to running out of VRAM in games that could fill the whole VRAM).

Memory compression reduces bandwidth requirements/improves efficiency.

These do not prove your memory management statement.
Click to expand...
Memory compression reduces bandwidth requirements/improves efficiency.

So nVidia handles memory technically better than AMD does.

We would all be hearing about it if AMD had improved it.

nVidia let everyone know because of how bad it was and yes their cards even back then lacked Vram.

Their cards however do handle memory operations better than AMD do, we just don;t have hardware where the performance is essentially apples to apples with the same Vram configuration so we can test the effect of it's ability to handle more in the framebuffer.
 
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