8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

BFG10K · Jul 13, 2021

8GB

Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

It's the player's fault.
It's the reviewer's fault.
It's the developer's fault.
It's AMD's fault.
It's the game's fault.
It's the driver's fault.
It's a system configuration issue.
Wrong settings were tested.
Wrong area was tested.
Wrong games were tested.
4K is irrelevant.
Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
It's an anomaly.
It's a console port.
It's a conspiracy against NV.
8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

blckgrffn · May 22, 2024

FoxconnRageEX said:
Memory compression reduces bandwidth requirements/improves efficiency.

So nVidia handles memory technically better than AMD does.

We would all be hearing about it if AMD had improved it.

nVidia let everyone know because of how bad it was and yes their cards even back then lacked Vram.

Their cards however do handle memory operations better than AMD do, we just don;t have hardware where the performance is essentially apples to apples with the same Vram configuration so we can test the effect of it's ability to handle more in the framebuffer.

So?

Hitman928 · May 22, 2024

FoxconnRageEX said:
Memory compression reduces bandwidth requirements/improves efficiency.

So nVidia handles memory technically better than AMD does.

We would all be hearing about it if AMD had improved it.

nVidia let everyone know because of how bad it was and yes their cards even back then lacked Vram.

Their cards however do handle memory operations better than AMD do, we just don;t have hardware where the perofmrance is essentially appales to apples with the same Vram configuration so we can test the effect of it's ability to handle more in the framebuffer.

AMD has made several improvements to their memory compression over the years. . .

You are continuing to make claims with zero evidence, so your claims can be dismissed out of hand.

FoxconnRageEX · May 22, 2024

Hitman928 said:
AMD has made several improvements to their memory compression over the years. . .

You are continuing to make claims with zero evidence, so your claims can be dismissed out of hand.

I said we have no way to provide an objective view of it, it's you misunderstanding my original statement. 🤷‍♂️

Hitman928 · May 22, 2024

FoxconnRageEX said:
I said we have no way to provide an objective view of it, it's you misunderstanding my original statement. 🤷‍♂️

Uhh, I don't think so:

FoxconnRageEX said:
nVidia has proven to be better at memory management than AMD.

FoxconnRageEX said:
I said that nVidia typically are better at it than AMd

FoxconnRageEX said:
So nVidia handles memory technically better than AMD does.

FoxconnRageEX said:
Their cards however do handle memory operations better than AMD do.

nurturedhate · May 22, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
I'll recommend this one get locked up.

It might finally be time!

blckgrffn · May 22, 2024

nurturedhate said:
It might finally be time!

SMH.

What a way to end it.

igor_kavinski · May 22, 2024

Nuh uh. Blocking the lock with this post. Psolord needs this thread to vent after getting tired all day playing games.

Ranulf · May 22, 2024

nurturedhate said:
That poor, poor goalhorsepost...

I like this word. Trying to generate AI images with it is more fun than many new video games out this year.

DAPUNISHER · May 22, 2024

nurturedhate said:
It might finally be time!

Speaking for myself, this thread has become a parody, even a mockery of a discussion. Homie linking to their profile on LTT as if that conclusively eliminates them as being a current or banned member here, is too comical to express in writing. Particularly when hiding behind a VPN. 🤣

Here is the lay of the land-

1. The OP evidently rage quit the forums after many years.
2. A consensus has been reached.
3. We have either fake or real n00b trolls invading the thread.
4. There is only one dissenting opinion, and everyone agrees that dissention is based on every bad logical debating fallacy in the book. As well as being demonstrably wrong.
5. I'd have to update the OP myself, in order to add to the list of games that 8GB is on the struggle bus playing. Which ain't gonna happen.
6. I don't want to kink shame, but come on maaaan!

Are we ready to lock this up or not?The only pro is that it is a very active thread, even if it is more torture pr0n than discussion at this point. 💀

GodisanAtheist · May 23, 2024

igor_kavinski · May 23, 2024

@psolord, what do you say? Thread close, yay or nay?

Thunder 57 · May 23, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
Speaking for myself, this thread has become a parody, even a mockery of a discussion. Homie linking to their profile on LTT as if that conclusively eliminates them as being a current or banned member here, is too comical to express in writing. Particularly when hiding behind a VPN. 🤣

Here is the lay of the land-

1. The OP evidently rage quit the forums after many years.
2. A consensus has been reached.
3. We have either fake or real n00b trolls invading the thread.
4. There is only one dissenting opinion, and everyone agrees that dissention is based on every bad logical debating fallacy in the book. As well as being demonstrably wrong.
5. I'd have to update the OP myself, in order to add to the list of games that 8GB is on the struggle bus playing. Which ain't gonna happen.
6. I don't want to kink shame, but come on maaaan!

Are we ready to lock this up or not?The only pro is that it is a very active thread, even if it is more torture pr0n than discussion at this point. 💀

Honestly I find this thread more a source of amusement than actual information. That guy saying they were from LTT, OK, I thought people thought kind of lowly of Linus/LTT these days for various reasons. No way I'd be associating myself with that "brand", if you will.

I don't see a reason to lock it up. That's doesn't seem our style IMHO. Let it die a natural death. People should've stopped replying long ago and that would've happened. In its current form I don't think it's harmful, but should it become so maybe it should be put out of its misery. Just for a "16GB is not enough for gaming" thread to emerge one day.

As an aside, what is up with VRAM needs these days? I remember running systems with 512MB RAM and 64MB VRAM. Then 4GB / 512MB. 8-16GB with 1-8GB VRAM. Personally I am now using 32GB/ / 8GB VRAM but my GPU is overdue for an update. Why have VRAM requirements been skyrocketing compared to main memory? That might be a topic worth actually discussing.

igor_kavinski · May 23, 2024

Thunder 57 said:
As an aside, what is up with VRAM needs these days? I remember running systems with 512MB RAM and 64MB VRAM. Then 4GB / 512MB. 8-16GB with 1-8GB VRAM. Personally I am now using 32GB/ / 8GB VRAM but my GPU is overdue for an update. Why have VRAM requirements been skyrocketing compared to main memory? That might be a topic worth actually discussing.

@NTMBK , would you like to comment?

psolord · May 23, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
Nuh uh. Blocking the lock with this post. Psolord needs this thread to vent after getting tired all day playing games.

Play video games all day? I'd wish! But I might be able to do it in 5 years! It's either that, or I'll have three kids. Hey, aspiring priorities!

igor_kavinski said:
@psolord, what do you say? Thread close, yay or nay?

Free speech above all. There are laws about that.

psolord · May 23, 2024

nurturedhate said:
Not only do you continue to move the goal posts, you have somehow turned the goal posts into a horse and proceeded to beat it do death. Then did it again and took pictures. That poor, poor goalhorsepost...

How am I moving the goalpoasts? I study hardware as it was meant to be used, that is not with stupid settings or resolutions. I showed how I can play a game on a 4070ti and how I can resume on a 3060ti. What's wrong with it?

Yes I know about these 1440p graphs Nvidia themselves used for the 3070/ti. That's on them, not on me. I didn't buy it for a second. For people that did, well, that's their problem.

I have explained my position very clearly. Show me that a game is unfixable and gets butt ugly with correct settings, solely due to vram size and I will agree to it.

The guy above is showing a 3070 that runs Hellblade II at 1440p maxed at 32fps and then drops to 9fps. So what? It was already a disaster. Fix your damn settings man and play the game properly. Just enabling DLSS could be enough.

Now if you tell me, which already has been said before, that, hey man, I am happy with a steady 30fps and I don't like these framedrops, which wouldn't be there if the 3070 had more vram, then we have a different point of view of how gaming should be done, because you are justifying an already lost cause.

igor_kavinski · May 23, 2024

psolord said:
or I'll have three kids.

That's a much harder game. So they will be inheriting your 8GB cards??? Have you named each card after your kids?

igor_kavinski · May 23, 2024

psolord said:
I study hardware as it was meant to be used, that is not with stupid settings or resolutions.

I'm almost embarrassed to tell you what I did with the iGPU of Ryzen 5825U.

Ran Unigine Superposition on it at 1440p with Extreme textures. It did not crash!

psolord · May 23, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
I'm almost embarrassed to tell you what I did with the iGPU of Ryzen 5825U.

Ran Unigine Superposition on it at 1440p with Extreme textures. It did not crash!

Hey I ran Hellblade II on a GTX 970. Yes it cried. This is a different thing however. I do stupid tests all the time. Doing tests and having crazy expectations from a piece of hardware, are two different things.

People here are always blaming the 3070/ti due to their price, which created wrong expectation. I don't disagree with that, but it is a different matter, regarding the vram size solely.

If you see the difference Hellblade II has, comparing the GTX 1070 and the 3060ti, both 8GB cards, you will cry. That's why I keep saying not all 8GB cards are the same and people accuse me of goalpost shifting, fml.

Timorous · May 23, 2024

psolord said:
People here are always blaming the 3070/ti due to their price, which created wrong expectation.

This is the point of the thread.

8GB parts have limited value due to compromises users need to make with them. Same applies to lower tier cards due to compute limits. The 3060 12GB MSRP was fine for its performance level so the price/perf/lifespan expectations were in line.

The 3070Ti/3070/4060Ti 8GB all had the wrong price/perf/lifespan expectations because the 8GB VRAM buffer requires the user make compromises sooner than they should / larger compromises than they should given the price that those products retailed at and how old they are. The 3060Ti is probably on the cusp of acceptable at its MSRP (shame mining screwed that up) because of its age and the 4060 is probably similar.

The 3060 12GB should not be a better GPU than the 3060TI/3070/3070Ti/4060Ti 8GB in any scenario, those 4 cards are higher tier and more expensive parts, that the 3060 12GB can offer higher IQ at playable frame rates in any title is a failure of those higher tier cards and illustrates the point being made, which is not that the 3060 12GB is a better part in general than those higher tier parts, just that it is less compromised at its MSRP than those higher tier parts are at their MSRPs.

DAPUNISHER · May 23, 2024

Thunder 57 said:
Honestly I find this thread more a source of amusement than actual information.

That's a good point. Forums should also be fun. Not just informative and helpful.

igor_kavinski · May 23, 2024

Timorous said:
the 3060 12GB is a better part in general than those higher tier parts, just that it is less compromised at its MSRP than those higher tier parts are at their MSRPs.

THIS!

nurturedhate · May 23, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
That's a good point. Forums should also be fun. Not just informative and helpful.

Honestly, if it's driving forum activity and page hits it should probably remain open. Most of the time when I come here this is the first thread i check because it's just crazy nonsense. Dude really went to "mah freeze peach, leave thread alone, there be laws!" on this thread. That's just insanity turned gold.

Mopetar · May 23, 2024

I'd also add that locking a thread because some new poster comes in and makes some questionable posts just sets a bad precedence or just encourages anyone who might want to get a thread locked to create a sock puppet account and post in that thread.

No one is forced to participate in this thread and honestly it's remained pretty civil all things considered, excluding the recent rude guest who seems to have been shown the door.

DAPUNISHER · May 23, 2024

Let's not confuse the chronology of events. We discussed locking this up well before our recent interloper. Those shenanigans only helped to reinforce how silly this thread is. But if it is entertaining everyone that's good enough for me.

GodisanAtheist · May 23, 2024

8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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