I have to say, part of your argument makes sense, and investing in EPYC would make sense for part, but then you have the lack of PCIE slots on those motherboards, and not more than 6000 memory. I am sure there are other threadripper things you need as well. THATS why threadripper was created, for people like you !I guess i see your point.
Its not profitable to spin a new cpu node with a slightly larger die, for a group which isn't going to invest in a full on HEDT.
And even then the HEDT population is very small now, that AMD wants to kill it all together.
Many good points. I'd strongly argue that 10% of power users is a factor of around a 1000 wrong though.1. u dont need VR headset + 3 monitors at the same time, unplug a monitor and connect headset....
2. get 8tb drives
3. 10gbe is overkill lmao
4. the use cases described are really marginal i.e. unplug 1 monitor, get 8tb drives... etc, very small differences
5. you are in the 10% of powerusers, the rest 90% dont do any of that
Bingo. Tbh you deserve a lot of credit here.I guess i see your point.
Its not profitable to spin a new cpu node with a slightly larger die, for a group which isn't going to invest in a full on HEDT.
And even then the HEDT population is very small now, that AMD wants to kill it all together.
Curious, because it s at 790 € in Germany including 19% VAT, so VAT less it s 664 €, wich amount to 755 $ at 0.88$/€ parity.9950x3d not even at amazon, and only scalper price at newegg at almost $1000
2 people on some forums does not a market segment make. Also, like, I'm not saying that these two people wouldn't enjoy the product, or that they don't have the need. Just that they, and you, think that you make up a significant enough market for companies to bother with you. You're not that important.
I legit run this exact setup but with 4tb + 2tb SSDs and have no issues on AM4 with a 5800x3d. Part of me even wants to just keep the index unplugged so I can drive a 4th monitor 😏1. u dont need VR headset + 3 monitors at the same time, unplug a monitor and connect headset....
2. get 8tb drives
3. 10gbe is overkill lmao
I think there should be more lanes for sure, but at the same time my GPU and my 10gbe card take up all the space that any more slots could use anyways. And even with everything filled on my x570 mobo, I still have no issues blasting at full speed down to my NAS while doing a bunch of other things.do you really think a 24 lane r9 would still out sell a 48 lane R9?
Yep.
A more reasonable suggestion is AMD doubling the PCH uplink width to x8 on Xx70 mobos a-la Intel to make 10/25GbE NICs and less than trivial storage setups possible.
Come on, we are not THAT deludedBasicaly they want a mainframe for the cost of a PC.
You know what makes even less sense? One person arguing with 2 people on a forum.2 people on some forums does not a market segment make. Also, like, I'm not saying that these two people wouldn't enjoy the product, or that they don't have the need. Just that they, and you, think that you make up a significant enough market for companies to bother with you. You're not that important.
I mean, that was actually one of the things I was hinting at. If AMD dropped a dual 3D-VCache chip for $999 to $1,200, you can bet every dollar you have that we nerds will buy it up. On top of that, AMD could REALLY sweeten the pot by using their highest clocked, lowest leakage CCDs on said X3D parts. That basically means that if you game or need clocks/cache for ANYTHING, it becomes a must buy. They won't however, and it is entirely due to capacity and the fact that product development takes time. Another company is also trying to get the tech for their stuff, so don't expect capacity to improve drastically any time soon.nope.
You're suggesting building a weird half-step platform for people too poor for HEDT which is like the antithesis to the very nature of 2CCD msdt socket parts.
They're just perf-leaders in vacuum, toyetic parts for bragging rights.
It's not made to 'make sense', it's there for vendor bragging rights at reasonable cost targets.
Come on, we are not THAT deluded
We are complaining because AMD is doing what Intel does: artificial segmentation. The last thing we want is for AMD to turn into another Intel. And Lisa Su's AMD prides itself on listening to its customers. So we are hoping they will listen to us, either through someone here lurking on AMD's behalf or maybe someone close to AMD will point to our arguments and make them go, "Hmmmm".
Doubled? lol. The top Zen 1 part was 16 cores and 32 threads (Threadripper 1950x). 😉Zen 1 doubled the available core count in 2017, it could have been the standard for at least 10 years with only IPC and frequency as next improvements, instead they prematurely doubled the core count again by 2019 with Zen 2, all while expanding the PCI-E bandwith from 3.0 s 8GT/s to 4.0 s 16GT/s in 2017 and now it s 5.0 s 32GT/s
and PCI 6.0 will double it again to 64GT/s in some time.
The misunderstanging come from the fact that people dont realise that core count increasement by 4x was done in a very short time with PCI bandwith increasing by the same ratio within the same time frame, compare with the evolution from 2010 to 2017
quasi stagnation.
I don't disagree but isn't AMD doing this with respect to V-cache? Do you remember the 5900X3D they demoed when they first unveiled V-cache? It's very, very cruel to dangle something like that in front of hungry kids like us and then never deliver. This was the 3rd gen for V-cache products and almost everyone was expecting them to release a dual V-cache CCD part this time around.The misunderstanging come from the fact that people dont realise that core count increasement by 4x was done in a very short time with PCI bandwith increasing by the same ratio within the same time frame, compare with the evolution from 2010 to 2017
quasi stagnation.
I wouldnt count HEDT as regular PCs, these are rather downgraded server chips sold at hefty prices and using specific MBs, 1950X was itself a server chip with reduced MB capabilities compared to its pro siblings.Doubled? lol. The top Zen 1 part was 16 cores and 32 threads (Threadripper 1950x). 😉
I assumed you weren't counting certain Intel HEDT parts btw, since neither of our statements would be true. 🤣
I don't disagree but isn't AMD doing this with respect to V-cache? Do you remember the 5900X3D they demoed when they first unveiled V-cache? It's very, very cruel to dangle something like that in front of hungry kids like us and then never deliver. This was the 3rd gen for V-cache products and almost everyone was expecting them to release a dual V-cache CCD part this time around.
Except they got taken aback by the 9800X3D reception and so maybe now they have no choice but to keep making a lot of the boring basic parts until the demand lets up a bit and maybe then we will see them do something interesting. I really, really hope that the 4th gen V-cache is a fused single V-cache accessible by both CCDs. That seems like the only logical progression if they refuse to do dual V-cache CCDs.
I wouldnt count HEDT as regular PCs, these are rather downgraded server chips sold at hefty prices and using specific MBs, 1950X was itself a server chip with reduced MB capabilities compared to its pro siblings.
Right, by pro i meant regular server chips with all features enabled on the chips, and also on the dedicated MBs.you mean EPYC siblings.
the PRO threadrippers didn't show up until the 2970wx and 2990wx series.
The AMD Threadripper 2990WX 32-Core and 2950X 16-Core Review
www.anandtech.com
I dont even think they called them pro until we got to the 3000 series.
Right, by pro i meant regular server chips with all features enabled on the chips, and also on the dedicated MBs.
Well, you helped me be one of those. I had a 2990 @ 3.8 on custom water.well if you recall the reason why they made the pro's is because people were overclocking the 2900 series thread rippers and they were absolutely recking the EPYC line.
So is x3d cache on every CCD and they ask you to pay premium to unlock it? I must have missed it. I thought it requires extra manufacturing steps, my badWe are complaining because AMD is doing what Intel does: artificial segmentation.
Do you remeber a round of interviews where they claimed on average it was not worth it in their consumer focused benchmarks?Do you remember the 5900X3D they demoed when they first unveiled V-cache?
Currently I use 4 PCIe slots. Out of which Video card and Sound card are must have. Then I also have SATA expansion card (my MB only have single NVME) and IO Expansion card. While the last two are not an absolute must, but it is good to have. When I add a new SSD/HDD I tend to keep the old one as it is. So I need more SATA slots.what do u really need pcie lanes for... it's 2025
90% of desktop clients just have 1 GPU and 1-2 nvme ssds that's it
not too many real "powerusers" these days , because simply it's not necessary. both hardware and software and services (cloud etc) are way more powerful. the extra effort you had to make 20 years ago to achieve basics is not needed anymore. etc
Why partly, it's the sole reason why most 8xx boards have worse pcie connectivity as compared with their 6xx counterparts. My board (650e master) can have 2x pcie5.0 drives connected directly to CPU and one to the chipset (via pcie4x riser card) without dropping any lanes from the GPU, newer boards have to reserve those four extra 5.0 lanes for the USB4 which is probably used much less frequently than NVME drives. A weird decision, why didn't they just put an usb4 addin card or at least put switches so you can disable the usb4 chip and enable lanes for extra m2 slot.USB4 requirement is partly to blame
So logic is just a game of numbers of people on forums. Nice work. Didn't realize that. Come on...You know what makes even less sense? One person arguing with 2 people on a forum.
You're getting there. The last missing component is that the segment isn't worth it.They won't however, and it is entirely due to capacity and the fact that product development takes time.
As a hardware company, they follow the belief that software can easily paper over everything, including the downsides of heterogeneity in CPUs.Do you remeber a round of interviews where they claimed on average it was not worth it in their consumer focused benchmarks?
Several years back, it was still possible to find mainboards with good extensibility (for Intel sockets, not AMD sockets of course). Nowadays everything is terribly dumbed down, as far as I have been paying attention. PCIe switches being costly was an argument for a while, but presumably cheap switch IP exists: ASMedia Promontory 21 for example. In my opinion, the lane count which the AM5 CPU socket offers is pretty good, but the current mainboard designs waste all the potential.I can go on and on on why i need those lanes, but im pretty sure im not the only one that keeps crying why we don't have more boards with either PLX chips or more pci-e lanes native.
You should take some time to understand the market before making bad assumptions.You're getting there. The last missing component is that the segment isn't worth it.