Level 1 Techs goes over the history of copyright and the coming war with ai scrapers

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
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we have lost a lot.
the corporate extensions are just absurd. i acknowledge that without some sort of extension there is no value to an artist selling their rights/catalogue to cash in either in old age or to provide for their family, but more than doubling it for corporations is just wrong (you are looking at over 200 year for something to hit public domain).

there also needs to be a separation for works for hire. either the creators get paid properly(either at time of or sometime after it is succesful) or the protection shouldnt last as long.

it will be interesting when 100 years from now anyone can ask a AI to write and render a movie/series to suit their individual tastes. the star trek holodeck computer customizing any genre/artist to taste at a single prompt is alluring, but it is hilarious that the generative corporations are now calling for less/no copyright to facilitate that future. i look forward to novel fetishes involving supernumerary fingers developing in future generations of psychology patients.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
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Interesting, but I didn't see this discuss the two main AI copyright issues at all:

1. Should AI be allowed to look at and "remember" copyrighted works? Should it have to pay for them? (I'd think it should have to at least pay as much as any other user.)
2. Should AI generated works be granted copyright for someone or some entity? That could be the model itself, the model's creator, or the user who entered the prompt. Copyright can now be granted to a user who creates a sufficiently unique visual prompt for image-to-image conversion.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,907
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with image copyright, the US courts have already decided: copyrights requires human conscious intent for protection. images created by animals(pets painting, monkey stealing a tourist camera, etc) is not protected. images generated by automation/software from random input is also not protected.

human intent/execution is required to be protected. so someone has to have the concept and has to do some action to create the product. the degree and amount of action is the part that remains the grey area in the generative space.

people submitting word prompts has been likened to a client telling the painter what they want from a commission. regardless of the idea being the commissioner's, they art copyrights remain with the person who put down the brushstrokes.


[in regards to models "remembering" art]
there is no protection for current image diffusion models because they used unauthorized images in the training. those billions of images in ~50+ stages of gradual gaussian blurring still remain inside the model so it is still cut and paste usage of the original copyrighted work. some image gen will still include distorted versions of the original artist's signature. so everything they generate is all fruit of the poison tree.

if the model trainers want to start from scratch using images they have licensed/paid the artists for, then fine knock yourself out. but that will reduce the range, variety, quality of the output images; which will reduce the value of the software/service they can offer to the end user and therefore reduce profit. (you could try to charge everytime a user used a specific studio/artist's name as a prompt, and then pay the artist after the license agreement rather than a large speculative upfront payment)
a clean non-scraped model will have access to public domain art(anything prior to 20th century) and a decent amount of real world photography, so those types of prompt will still work fine. but anything using a particular trendy artist's name will be irrelevant garbage output. there are artists licensing their catalogs for training and adobe forcing their user to let them scrape, which should improve the quality of a clean model but that model will be far less attractive/profitable as it wont be able to imitate the artists that user likes. probably useful for corporations and advertising types that just need a background image to slap together for websites and flyers.

i posted in the ai thread, poisoning tools for images and music already exist. whenever a model trains with scraped images the output is corrupted with discordant results to the prompt words. in 5 to 10 years when every artist is poisoning their work, the generative models will be worth far less as the range of what they can create will have a ton of holes.
 
May 11, 2008
21,684
1,296
126
Interesting, but I didn't see this discuss the two main AI copyright issues at all:

1. Should AI be allowed to look at and "remember" copyrighted works? Should it have to pay for them? (I'd think it should have to at least pay as much as any other user.)
2. Should AI generated works be granted copyright for someone or some entity? That could be the model itself, the model's creator, or the user who entered the prompt. Copyright can now be granted to a user who creates a sufficiently unique visual prompt for image-to-image conversion.
When AI is trained with existing copyrighted images for a given task. Is it then fair to say that the AI generated unique images during that given task ?
The user who typed in the list of specs to AI generate the image is using in fact existing images.

This is where for example Meta and others started using pictures on facebook, instagram and whatsapp for AI training.
Private images placed in the public domain but still private images, because people wanted to show what they had to show for whatever reason. Giving Consent is giving away copyright ?
 
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