Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

Markfw · Apr 22, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Fixed that for you. All of this already happened, and it came as no surprise to any of us following this from the beginning. I knew it was Dell last year, when Wendell reported a source inside a major partner said they were failing as high as 30% of some SKUs during internal testing. And that meant there were likely millions of defective units for this single integrator. Intel took their sweet time getting remediation services up and running for them too.

Dell has suffered mass layoffs and financial issues right along with Intel. That's what happens when you have all your eggs in one basket. When those in denial were still claiming it was a nothingburger, Intel was already preparing to shell out untold millions in credits and replacement CPUs to Dell alone.

I also SMDH at those that were saying it was cheaper to do it the way they did rather than issue a recall. They should have handled it the way Microsoft did with the Xbox 360 RROD defects. Instead they boned their most loyal partners and customers, destroyed their reputation, and allowed millions of CPUs to degrade by inaction, greatly exacerbating their financial problems.

Any 65W and up 13 and 14 was affected. That includes some of the mobile parts, despite Intel claiming they were exempt. Not that you can trust anything they say. They completely destroyed any credibility they had with the terrible way they responded, and more importantly, failed to respond to all of this.

They finally took down the banner on their support page about high case volume. I am not going to draw the logical conclusion about that though, as there have been so many dirtbag tricks and shenanigans to date, that I can't even rule out nefarious reasons.

There will be a few lawsuits to settle too. The class action should be a slam dunk. Knowing about the via oxidation and still shipping the 13th gen CPUs was a major foul up. That they were still on the shelves in early 2024 was an egregious error in judgment.

IN MY OPINION I have to start with. This was all caused with Intel trying to beat AMD the wrong way, overclocking from the factory. And of course let me quote from above:
"Not that you can trust anything they say. They completely destroyed any credibility they had with the terrible way they responded, and more importantly, failed to respond to all of this."

Yes, Intel has been this way since I can remember, starting with the 1 ghz problem, where they had to recall all the CPUs. Conroe overcame that for me, due to performance and efficiency. And AMD won me back for the same reason. But the lying and doing things the wrong way to win has been their way of doing things for 30 years or so. Including buying the loyalty by bribing the competition, which let to the recent Dell comments, as Dell was Intel only for MANY years , starting when Intel was sued for anti-competitive behaviour.

Its all a pattern by a company that continues to make bad decisions, and it has recently cost then a lot, in money and reputation.

alcoholbob · Apr 22, 2025

Markfw said:
IN MY OPINION I have to start with. This was all caused with Intel trying to beat AMD the wrong way, overclocking from the factory. And of course let me quote from above:
"Not that you can trust anything they say. They completely destroyed any credibility they had with the terrible way they responded, and more importantly, failed to respond to all of this."

Yes, Intel has been this way since I can remember, starting with the 1 ghz problem, where they had to recall all the CPUs. Conroe overcame that for me, due to performance and efficiency. And AMD won me back for the same reason. But the lying and doing things the wrong way to win has been their way of doing things for 30 years or so. Including buying the loyalty by bribing the competition, which let to the recent Dell comments, as Dell was Intel only for MANY years , starting when Intel was sued for anti-competitive behaviour.

Its all a pattern by a company that continues to make bad decisions, and it has recently cost then a lot, in money and reputation.

Funny enough Intel is doing this again with Arrow Lake updates, they are now covering up to 8000 MT/s XMP speeds along with one-button overclocking interconnect speeds, when they don't even provide warranty for XMP on other platforms lol.

DAPUNISHER · Apr 22, 2025

My summation of what happened to Intel -

They were dubbed Chipzilla for good reason. Good guy Godzilla was not a thing originally. Intel profited immensely and completely dominated the market by playing cutthroat all those years. Meanwhile they have been suffering the death of 1000 cuts.

DAPUNISHER · Apr 22, 2025

Joe NYC said:
BTW, I was listening to the latest Tech Poutine podcast, and Ian Cutrass tried to sweep the issue under the rug, as a non-issue.

(it's buried in the middle of hours long podcast)

Yup. I have been loath to bring it up, but the Doc is a sellout. I think Intel is, or at least was, one of his biggest consulting gigs. When he went after GN, the best consumer advocates in the tech space, I knew he had decided putting bread on the table was more important than his integrity and reputation.

igor_kavinski · Apr 22, 2025

Yeah, if a talented PhD has to do it, either he's getting paid REALLY well or he is too passionate about getting the inside scoop to cut off ties with Intel. Must need his teeth on those wafers bad!

Markfw · Apr 22, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Yup. I have been loath to bring it up, but the Doc is a sellout. I think Intel is, or at least was, one of his biggest consulting gigs. When he went after GN, the best consumer advocates in the tech space, I knew he had decided putting bread on the table was more important than his integrity and reputation.

When you say DOC, do you mean Ian Cuttress ? I think he is doc. He used this forum himself many years ago, and I thought he was on the Intel payroll then from his posting.

Ranulf · Apr 22, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Yup. I have been loath to bring it up, but the Doc is a sellout. I think Intel is, or at least was, one of his biggest consulting gigs. When he went after GN, the best consumer advocates in the tech space, I knew he had decided putting bread on the table was more important than his integrity and reputation.

If someone has the time stamp on the podcast for Doc's statement on Intel, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't see it on the time stamps. Either way, I'm not surprised given some of his takes on the LTT/GN slap fight from last year and what vague memories I have on his previous Intel thoughts. For a phd holder in science, his views on law and allegations were decidedly emotional. Perhaps I just take being called an idiot too personally.

Joe NYC · Apr 22, 2025

Ranulf said:
If someone has the time stamp on the podcast for Doc's statement on Intel, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't see it on the time stamps. Either way, I'm not surprised given some of his takes on the LTT/GN slap fight from last year and what vague memories I have on his previous Intel thoughts. For a phd holder in science, his views on law and allegations were decidedly emotional. Perhaps I just take being called an idiot too personally.

I don't have a bookmark, but to narrow it down for you, it is probably about 66%-75% of the way through the video when they discuss Intel management changes etc.

DZero · Apr 22, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Any 65W and up 13 and 14 was affected. That includes some of the mobile parts, despite Intel claiming they were exempt. Not that you can trust anything they say. They completely destroyed any credibility they had with the terrible way they responded, and more importantly, failed to respond to all of this.

They finally took down the banner on their support page about high case volume. I am not going to draw the logical conclusion about that though, as there have been so many dirtbag tricks and shenanigans to date, that I can't even rule out nefarious reasons.

There will be a few lawsuits to settle too. The class action should be a slam dunk. Knowing about the via oxidation and still shipping the 13th gen CPUs was a major foul up. That they were still on the shelves in early 2024 was an egregious error in judgment.

Wait... any 65W and more? Oh no no no no... damn... So any non Alder Lake based is royally screwed? So any non P or U tier chips are prone to die? Even on the franken boards?

If that so, Intel ruined big time

Markfw · Apr 22, 2025

Joe NYC said:
I don't have a bookmark, but to narrow it down for you, it is probably about 66%-75% of the way through the video when they discuss Intel management changes etc.

I looked at the captions (since I am deaf) from 2-2:30 and I did not see any comment. BUT there was some talk that went so fact at 2:20 or so about "shut up, don't talk...." that might have been where it was. Captions don't always catch everything.

DrMrLordX · Apr 23, 2025

Joe NYC said:
I don't have a bookmark, but to narrow it down for you, it is probably about 66%-75% of the way through the video when they discuss Intel management changes etc.

I don't see anything in there where they discuss Intel management changes. Are you sure this is the exact video?

DAPUNISHER · Apr 23, 2025

DZero said:
Wait... any 65W and more? Oh no no no no... damn... So any non Alder Lake based is royally screwed? So any non P or U tier chips are prone to die? Even on the franken boards?

If that so, Intel ruined big time

Lower end parts appear to be far less prone to failure. I have read a few owners report degradation but nothing on the order of the 7 and 9 K SKUs.

Markfw · Apr 23, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Lower end parts appear to be far less prone to failure. I have read a few owners report degradation but nothing on the order of the 7 and 9 K SKUs.

I am not touching anything 12th gen or newer until Intel get a good product out. 285k ? I won't deal with E-cores or NO avx-512.

blckgrffn · Apr 23, 2025

When the price is right, I am still using 12th Gen Parts. Microcenter still has their $320 (formerly $300) bundle and its fine compared to what I can get with the bottom of the barrel AM5 boards. It's all about pricing. The 12400/12600K/12700K/12900K all have their place.

That said, its kinda funny because I am pretty sure that's the exact reasoning that I used to justify AMD FX combo purchases, also at Microcenter

igor_kavinski · Apr 23, 2025

blckgrffn said:
12600K/12700K/12900K all have their place.

These also double as "efficient" space heaters because you get two functions for the price of one. Heat is good for blood flow

Joe NYC · Apr 23, 2025

DrMrLordX said:
I don't see anything in there where they discuss Intel management changes. Are you sure this is the exact video?

I indeed linked the wrong video. You would think that clicking on the channel, the first video that YouTube would show would be the latest one, but no, it showed the 2nd latest. Here is the transcript:

3:14:56
you may remember um for those of you who follow Gamers Nexus they made a big stink about was it electro migration or oxidation as part of Intel's manufacturing process yes they made a stink i spoke to people at Intel and they turned around and said "We had an issue on the first bring up of that node that was fixed by production."

Yeah and Gamers Nexus the way they presented it was akin to this is still very much an issue and it's causing much of the issues today on these processes or no end tree the yeah no no I tell a lie the way they phrased it is this could be an issue we're digging into it then they spent a lot of time going into if it was an issue this is how big it would It it it's you know it's you you find a small hole and you dig an inverted mountain or you build a mine underneath it such that when you're ready to mine it you can just widen the hole turns out that mine didn't have anything in it so you fill it in therefore making all the all the scaremongering work um you know useless or you know it pulled in views so I guess it had a a a point um J [not a professional] we're absolutely running up against quantum tunnelling limitations here, right? that that's a conversation for a different day but it does come down to the complexity of chip manufacturing it's always more complex than most people think

Here is the correct link:

DAPUNISHER · Apr 23, 2025

I don't know if the option is available to you Joe, but for me, all I have to do is hit share and check the box for start at to timestamp videos to the part I want everyone to see. Here it is time stamped -

DAPUNISHER · Apr 23, 2025

blckgrffn said:
When the price is right, I am still using 12th Gen Parts. Microcenter still has their $320 (formerly $300) bundle and its fine compared to what I can get with the bottom of the barrel AM5 boards. It's all about pricing. The 12400/12600K/12700K/12900K all have their place.

I get these are builds for other people and their needs dictate the hardware. Otherwise I'd debate it. Because I'd much rather have a basic AM5 board and CPU, the only platform with an upgrade path, than a mid CPU on cursed socket.

Joe NYC · Apr 23, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
I don't know if the option is available to you Joe, but for me, all I have to do is hit share and check the box for start at to timestamp videos to the part I want everyone to see. Here it is time stamped -

Thanks for that, I keep forgetting this forum allows you to embed with a time stamp.

In any case, I don't think Cutress is right that this issue was fixed before going to production. There is a (non-inverted) mountain of evidence of problems with the Raptor Lake chips, including the warning by Dell posted by @adamge above.

GTracing · Apr 23, 2025

Joe NYC said:
Thanks for that, I keep forgetting this forum allows you to embed with a time stamp.

In any case, I don't think Cutress is right that this issue was fixed before going to production. There is a (non-inverted) mountain of evidence of problems with the Raptor Lake chips, including the warning by Dell posted by @adamge above.

I don't think Dr Cutress is saying that the degradation issue isn't real. He's saying that oxidation isn't the cause of it.

blckgrffn · Apr 23, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
I get these are builds for other people and their needs dictate the hardware. Otherwise I'd debate it. Because I'd much rather have a basic AM5 board and CPU, the only platform with an upgrade path, than a mid CPU on cursed socket.

The boards to support the 7600x and 9600x bundles would have to be in stock to even enable a debate if its what I can source locally. Most Microcenters are out of those boards - and likely aren't getting many or any more due to import issues depending on where the boards come from.

I do see that MC dropped the next tier up AMD bundles $50 for now- they had been $450 for the 9700x - but at the time of this particular build purchase the available AMD bundle was 50% more.

And when the builds are integrated graphics, W11 compatibility only upgrades the difference is largely academic. I'd prefer to put in a fast NVME drive and better PSU.

Anyway, that remains pretty darn similar to the justifications I was making ~10+ years ago, and even then I don't think I was wrong.

Now what to do with all these old FX and 3/4th gen intel innards I am getting? They are stacking up....

DAPUNISHER · Apr 23, 2025

GTracing said:
I don't think Dr Cutress is saying that the degradation issue isn't real. He's saying that oxidation isn't the cause of it.

GN never claimed that either. They have 3 videos on the issues - https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus/search?query=raptor lake degradation

Doc has repeatedly thrown shade at Steve because he has or at least had, financial ties to LTT. That's my hot take.

DAPUNISHER · Apr 23, 2025

blckgrffn said:
The boards to support the 7600x and 9600x bundles would have to be in stock to even enable a debate if its what I can source locally.

You don't need to debate anything. You are servicing clients needs. And making a profit = U R winnar!

But be aware, you are making all of us with no MC near us as salty as the dead sea with all of this entitled " Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo I have local MC!" talk.

GTracing · Apr 23, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
GN never claimed that either. They have 3 videos on the issues - https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus/search?query=raptor lake degradation

Doc has repeatedly thrown shade at Steve because he has or at least had, financial ties to LTT. That's my hot take.

I realize that. I was just trying to clarify since Joe NYC seemed to be under the impression that Dr Cutress is claiming that degradation doesn't exist.

I agree that Ian seems to have it in for Gamer's Nexus. Ian says his Intel sources claim the oxidation issue was fixed by production, when that contradicts Intel's own statement on the matter. It seems that Ian is willing to blindly trust his sources at Intel to spite GN.

Rigg · Apr 23, 2025

I'm not a fan of that Intel bundle vs the 8 core AM5 bundles. The $320 12700K bundle includes an MSI Z790-P Pro WiFi D4, and a garbage 2x8 crucial 3200 C22 kit. For $370 you get a 7700X, Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX V2, and 2x16 DDR5 6000 C32. The 9700X (same memory and mobo) bundle is only $30 more. The 8 core AM5 bundles are currently well stocked.

With the current state of bundle deals, it seems highly questionable (for most people) to go with a dead end DRR4 platform when you can double the memory capacity/speed, and get on AM5 for $50 more. I'm not trying to be a Monday morning QB here though. If that stuff is irrelevant to @blckgrffn 's paying clients, and $50 is put to better practical use elsewhere in the system, than I won't question his choice.

Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

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