Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

DrMrLordX · Thursday at 5:56 AM

@Joe NYC thanks for the corrected link.

It does seem like Dr. Cutress is overly-dismissive of the massive pr disaster Intel suffered from the Raptor Lake debacle. There are game publishers to this day who default to "if you have 13th or 14th gen Intel processors, do X" solutions when playing their UE5-based games. It's that bad and that widespread. It's gotten to the point that if you have problems with a UE5 game (like Marvel Rivals), people will even lead off with that even if you tell them you're running an AMD chip (for example). There's an underlying assumption that you must be running buggy/degraded hardware if their UE5 title is misbehaving.

blckgrffn · Thursday at 10:43 AM

Rigg said:
I'm not a fan of that Intel bundle vs the 8 core AM5 bundles. The $320 12700K bundle includes an MSI Z790-P Pro WiFi D4, and a garbage 2x8 crucial 3200 C22 kit. For $370 you get a 7700X, Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX V2, and 2x16 DDR5 6000 C32. The 9700X (same memory and mobo) bundle is only $30 more. The 8 core AM5 bundles are currently well stocked.

With the current state of bundle deals, it seems highly questionable (for most people) to go with a dead end DRR4 platform when you can double the memory capacity/speed, and get on AM5 for $50 more. I'm not trying to be a Monday morning QB here though. If that stuff is irrelevant to @blckgrffn 's paying clients, and $50 is put to better practical use elsewhere in the system, than I won't question his choice.

LMAO, you got me with this one. You guys may be giving me too much credit - I do get to build a fair amount of PCs but...

This is my Father-In-Law getting a W11 compliant replacement for the 4770k he's been using as a desktop since ~2014 without issue. The heaviest thing it lifts is a third or fourth Firefox tab on Yahoo finance.

I had to use MC and their bundles because they don't shop online, they are minutes from the MC, and I sent them in with a small shopping list - two items. This bundle and a power supply, and ofc they came home with the wrong PSU anyway because there was a cheaper one of the same brand and wattage next to it. Sigh.

I'll be providing the new fans, the nice thermalright heatsink and nice 500GB crucial NVME drive and doing all the work of backing up the files and all that and no money will be changing hands. I've got his bday and Father's Day coming up and this is what he's getting from our family.

In the end, yeah, I built two (one for my daughter and helped another of my sons friends build his first PC) 9700X bundles in the last couple of months. I agree that's where the price/value lines truly converge atm.

But that bundle was $450 when they went to the store and frankly a 12700K is still a super solid CPU, the MSI board is reasonably solid and full featured and in this application I simply appreciate that 3200 mhz/dual channel ram is very low risk configuration. In this use case there wasn't any need to worry about sockets, ram tech, etc. Out the door price was/is king.

I would say about half of my builds are assisted first time or after a long time computer assembly for people I know or in some sort of secondary orbit. Most of my real sales are refurbing older stuff that I typically get in trade for my expertise and time.

That's one reason I've got a short stack of Ultra Durable AMD boards and FX CPUs, I did these builds with people a decade ago! They make great demonstration boards for teenagers and older folks alike, where we can work installing CPU, heatsink and Ram into a worthless board before we move onto that $400 bundle. We just have to have a talk about how the pins are on the motherboard now

Rigg · Thursday at 3:09 PM

blckgrffn said:
But that bundle was $450 when they went to the store and frankly a 12700K is still a super solid CPU, the MSI board is reasonably solid and full featured and in this application I simply appreciate that 3200 mhz/dual channel ram is very low risk configuration. In this use case there wasn't any need to worry about sockets, ram tech, etc. Out the door price was/is king.

I'm a bit hesitant to buy from intel at all after this entire raptor lake fiasco. Don't get me wrong - the 12700K and board are a solid value and seem to be immune to these rapid degradation issues. In vacuum it's a fantastic value.

The MSI pro boards have always been solid across multiple platforms for me. I wouldn't hesitate to use that board. To be honest, I really don't like gigabyte boards as a general rule. If I wanted an AM5 8 core bundle, I'd add the individual parts from the AM5 bundle, and exchange the board.

Are you planning on adding a contact plate? I'm not sure how common this is, but my brother had memory issues on his DDR4 12700k system due to poor contact with the socket pins. He put a contact frame on it and it solved it. The improved cooling is nice as well. For $10 the Thermalright frames seem like kind of a no brainer for an LGA 1700 build.

igor_kavinski · Thursday at 3:20 PM

Rigg said:
Are you planning on adding a contact plate? I'm not sure how common this is, but my brother had memory issues on his DDR4 12700k system due to poor contact with the socket pins.

No contact frame on my 12700K (even though I have it but was too lazy to use it). No issue with DDR5.

Ranulf · Thursday at 5:17 PM

blckgrffn said:
The boards to support the 7600x and 9600x bundles would have to be in stock to even enable a debate if its what I can source locally. Most Microcenters are out of those boards - and likely aren't getting many or any more due to import issues depending on where the boards come from.

I do see that MC dropped the next tier up AMD bundles $50 for now- they had been $450 for the 9700x - but at the time of this particular build purchase the available AMD bundle was 50% more.

And when the builds are integrated graphics, W11 compatibility only upgrades the difference is largely academic. I'd prefer to put in a fast NVME drive and better PSU.

Anyway, that remains pretty darn similar to the justifications I was making ~10+ years ago, and even then I don't think I was wrong.

Now what to do with all these old FX and 3/4th gen intel innards I am getting? They are stacking up....

It was the same thing a few years ago on the low end where AMD wasn't competing except at the 5600x ($300+) level and Intel was the option for i3/i5 entry level especially since those cpus had an igpu. Somewhat similar with early Ryzen because of high ddr4 prices.

lakedude · Friday at 5:59 AM

DrMrLordX said:
It does seem like Dr. Cutress is overly-dismissive of the massive pr disaster Intel suffered from the Raptor Lake debacle.

I can't watch Ian (too slow to get to the point) or GN (too much hype). The only guy I enjoyed listening to about RL was Wendell.

I'm saying this without watching the video but I think I can infer enough to still have an opinion.

Yes Intel's RL has been a disaster for those of us in the tech community and I'm glad I went with AMD this time around however no "normal" person knows anything about this "massive pr disaster". Intel still has a great reputation outside the financial and tech communities.

DAPUNISHER · Friday at 6:39 AM

lakedude said:
I'm saying this without watching the video but I think I can infer enough to still have an opinion.

You certainly can have an opinion without watching the video, but good luck getting anyone to take it seriously.

lakedude said:
Yes Intel's RL has been a disaster for those of us in the tech community

LMAO what is this whitewashing nonsense? It's a disaster for Intel, in ongoing one.

lakedude said:
and I'm glad I went with AMD this time around however no "normal" person knows anything about this "massive pr disaster"

More nonsensical whitewashing. Intel wishes it was simply a PR disaster. Dell releasing a historic first line of commercial AMD systems is no coincidence. Epic bailed on them. Even Pudget systems has caved and is pushing more AMD out the door than Intel now. When staunch Intel partners have turned to the competition, PR ain't the reason.

Intel continues mass layoffs and spending cutbacks. That means all of those incentives and long time relationships with Intel employees servicing them are going or already went bye bye. Combine that with having been burned hard by all of the failed systems and the burdens that puts on the integrators, and it is light years beyond a simple PR SNAFU.

lakedude said:
Intel still has a great reputation outside the financial and tech communities.

Citation required.

Also, AMD has passed Intel for brand recognition, you knew that right?

igor_kavinski · Friday at 7:20 AM

DAPUNISHER said:
Citation required.

They haven't suffered at least in the UAE. Judging by many of the posts on overclock.net, people are still hugging their 14900K PCs because "it offers the lowest possible RAM latency" and "fewest stutters" in a broad range of games (their justifications) and they bemoan that reviewers select "AMD leaning" game titles for benchmarking. They admit that there are degradation problems but they have taken steps in their BIOS to prevent that (the electrical settings etc. and what not).

I just haven't heard in normal conversations or seen anything in the local news media to suggest that Intel's reputation has been damaged. They seem to be doing OK, in the minds of people who don't really care about CPUs and tend to be more "laptop brand" loyal than CPU manufacturer loyal.

lakedude · Friday at 7:47 AM

DAPUNISHER said:
Intel continues mass layoffs and spending cutbacks. That means all of those incentives and long time relationships with Intel employees servicing them are going or already went bye bye. Combine that with having been burned hard by all of the failed systems and the burdens that puts on the integrators, and it is light years beyond a simple PR SNAFU.

Yes Intel has problems and yes they are well beyond a simple PR SNAFU but not all their problems are because of RL, in fact very few are directly RL related. The desktop market has been shrinking for decades and Intel's fabs managed to squander a several year head start. They are also huge, bloated and not nimble enough. They have tons of fat like most huge companies.

DAPUNISHER said:
Also, AMD has passed Intel for brand recognition, you knew that right?

Do yourself a favor and go to any non-technical non-financial forum and ask what kind of CPU you should buy. The overwhelming majority will say Intel. Normal people don't know what RL is, if you are lucky they might know that an i7 is better than an i5. They don't know which generation is current. AMD is viewed as the value option, like cubic zirconia.

I know better and you know better but the average Joe simply does not.

Thibsie · Friday at 7:51 AM

igor_kavinski said:
They haven't suffered at least in the UAE. Judging by many of the posts on overclock.net, people are still hugging their 14900K PCs because "it offers the lowest possible RAM latency" and "fewest stutters" in a broad range of games (their justifications) and they bemoan that reviewers select "AMD leaning" game titles for benchmarking. They admit that there are degradation problems but they have taken steps in their BIOS to prevent that (the electrical settings etc. and what not).

I just haven't heard in normal conversations or seen anything in the local news media to suggest that Intel's reputation has been damaged. They seem to be doing OK, in the minds of people who don't really care about CPUs and tend to be more "laptop brand" loyal than CPU manufacturer loyal.

Agreed. For people on the street or the casual gamer kiddo, they dunno a thing about this.
Rest assure the message is spread to my students (but do they listen, huh ?).

igor_kavinski · Friday at 8:51 AM

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-ai-pc-chips-arent-selling-instead-last-gen-raptor-lake-booms-and-creates-a-shortage

This is really funny. People simply don't want to pay more. So AM4 and LGA1700 will keep selling at current prices. Only issue for Intel is that they may not have enough stock left for Raptor Lake products (especially after "giving away" so many to replace the degraded CPUs) so pretty soon, they won't have many profitable SKUs left to sell. They can't make nearly as much money on Arrow Lake as they can on their Intel 7 stuff and Intel 4 supply isn't supposed to be as good as Intel 7.

Thunder 57 · Friday at 9:40 AM

lakedude said:
Yes Intel has problems and yes they are well beyond a simple PR SNAFU but not all their problems are because of RL, in fact very few are directly RL related. The desktop market has been shrinking for decades and Intel's fabs managed to squander a several year head start. They are also huge, bloated and not nimble enough. They have tons of fat like most huge companies.

Do yourself a favor and go to any non-technical non-financial forum and ask what kind of CPU you should buy. The overwhelming majority will say Intel. Normal people don't know what RL is, if you are lucky they might know that an i7 is better than an i5. They don't know which generation is current. AMD is viewed as the value option, like cubic zirconia.

I know better and you know better but the average Joe simply does not.

I'd say things, but I'd get in trouble. I'll just say you have no idea what you are talking about.

gdansk · Friday at 11:02 AM

lakedude said:
AMD is viewed as the value option, like cubic zirconia.

And it must be confusing for these people when the "value brand" has no firesale value systems like Intel.

blckgrffn · Friday at 11:06 AM

gdansk said:
And it must be confusing for these people when the "value brand" has no firesale value systems like Intel.

Ha, I mean, you're not wrong. For the sake of the build I just mentioned in this thread, I was going to try to piece together a 8500G system (perfect for this application).

By the time I added a board I wanted - $150+ - the 8500G and a kit of ram I was $100+ over the 12700K build.

The 8500G is supposed to be the real deal value CPU but the platform has so much value that AMD doesn't have to give them away like the 5600G and B450 setups. Instead, the Intel i7 build is bundled down to a low price. Crazy, right?

DAPUNISHER · Friday at 12:33 PM

lakedude said:
Do yourself a favor

We evidently have extremely different definitions of what favor means.

lakedude said:
and go to any non-technical non-financial forum and ask what kind of CPU you should buy. The overwhelming majority will say Intel. Normal people don't know what RL is, if you are lucky they might know that an i7 is better than an i5. They don't know which generation is current. AMD is viewed as the value option, like cubic zirconia.

I know better and you know better but the average Joe simply does not.

igor_kavinski said:
They haven't suffered at least in the UAE. Judging by many of the posts on overclock.net, people are still hugging their 14900K PCs because "it offers the lowest possible RAM latency" and "fewest stutters" in a broad range of games (their justifications) and they bemoan that reviewers select "AMD leaning" game titles for benchmarking. They admit that there are degradation problems but they have taken steps in their BIOS to prevent that (the electrical settings etc. and what not).

I just haven't heard in normal conversations or seen anything in the local news media to suggest that Intel's reputation has been damaged. They seem to be doing OK, in the minds of people who don't really care about CPUs and tend to be more "laptop brand" loyal than CPU manufacturer loyal.

Joe sixpack defaulting to Intel when asked about PCs/laptops, and not knowing about the defective CPUS is the last line of copium on the mirror?

They may yet find out about it. When the class action letter arrives in their mailboxes.

That is all just deflection anyways. This is costing Intel massively in loss sales, reputation, and heaps of money where it matters most, with the people that build and deploy the systems.

DZero · Friday at 12:49 PM

blckgrffn said:
Ha, I mean, you're not wrong. For the sake of the build I just mentioned in this thread, I was going to try to piece together a 8500G system (perfect for this application).

By the time I added a board I wanted - $150+ - the 8500G and a kit of ram I was $100+ over the 12700K build.

The 8500G is supposed to be the real deal value CPU but the platform has so much value that AMD doesn't have to give them away like the 5600G and B450 setups. Instead, the Intel i7 build is bundled down to a low price. Crazy, right?

The Alder Lake is slowly increasing the prices while Raptor is collapsing.

blckgrffn · Friday at 1:00 PM

DZero said:
The Alder Lake is slowly increasing the prices while Raptor is collapsing.

I see Rator Lake CPUs on Marketplace and every time - and forever - hard pass. They have zero secondary value to me and likely many.

A couple people that I know who also “know” but still want Intel for reasons went with that 12900k bundle at MC which is “fine.”

I think in the coming years there will be folks searching out 12th gen CPUs when they have instability with their 13/14th gen systems and the 12900k is going to hold its value like the 4790k, 9900K and other top end for the socket Intel CPUs which shouldn’t have happened. It should be like the 8700k, which held OK but isn’t the king.

igor_kavinski · Friday at 1:07 PM

DAPUNISHER said:
This is costing Intel massively in loss sales, reputation, and heaps of money where it matters most, with the people that build and deploy the systems.

No doubt, there is a cost that they are still paying. I think maybe this is the fifth consecutive quarter now without a profit?

Rigg · Friday at 1:22 PM

blckgrffn said:
Ha, I mean, you're not wrong. For the sake of the build I just mentioned in this thread, I was going to try to piece together a 8500G system (perfect for this application).

By the time I added a board I wanted - $150+ - the 8500G and a kit of ram I was $100+ over the 12700K build.

The 8500G is supposed to be the real deal value CPU but the platform has so much value that AMD doesn't have to give them away like the 5600G and B450 setups. Instead, the Intel i7 build is bundled down to a low price. Crazy, right?

You could just buy the AM5 8 core bundle, flip the CPU online, and buy an 8500g. The 9700x and 7700x are both over $300 at online retailers currently. You can even get the micro center bundle discount on both CPUs (no need to buy 2 motherboards and memory kits) by adding individual bundle items to your cart. This works because the 2 bundles use the same motherboard and memory kit. Hell, even if you hooked somebody up with a deal at $250 a piece for those CPU's the entire 8500g "bundle" would be under $200. Yes, obviously this is a bit more initial investment and risk. If your ultimate goal is to build the cheapest combo possible, and you don't mind the hustle, this is the way.

igor_kavinski · Friday at 1:29 PM

^^^ That could be a loophole. BUY BUY BUY!

blckgrffn · Friday at 1:35 PM

Rigg said:
You could just buy the AM5 8 core bundle, flip the CPU online, and buy an 8500g. The 9700x and 7700x are both over $300 at online retailers currently. You can even get the micro center bundle discount on both CPUs (no need to buy 2 motherboards and memory kits) by adding individual bundle items to your cart. This works because the 2 bundles use the same motherboard and memory kit. Hell, even if you hooked somebody up with a deal at $250 a piece for those CPU's the entire 8500g "bundle" would be under $200. Yes, obviously this is a bit more initial investment and risk. If your ultimate goal is to build the cheapest combo possible, and you don't mind the hustle, this is the way.

View attachment 122706

There we go! I don't usually mind the hustle, the danger is I end up with just one new part for a potential build and the next thing you know I am another $600 deep on another PC build that I need to move

DAPUNISHER · Friday at 1:52 PM

Rapture Lake = Intel cooked retail - https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189

Arrow Lake is sad trombone noises.

gdansk · Friday at 2:02 PM

DAPUNISHER said:
Rapture Lake = Intel cooked retail - https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189

Arrow Lake is sad trombone noises.

Another indicator for current sales among tech enthusiasts across many retailers is PCPartPicker completed builds. 54 pages of 9800X3D. 2 pages of 285K. And over a much longer time period - 29 pages of 14900K/KF/KS.

But I wonder how much of that is Raptor Lake's reputational damage and how much is Arrow Lake's own doing.

Rigg · Friday at 2:53 PM

blckgrffn said:
There we go! I don't usually mind the hustle, the danger is I end up with just one new part for a potential build and the next thing you know I am another $600 deep on another PC build that I need to move

LOL!!! I know this pattern all to well. Crazy MC deals are a double edged sword. I'm totally going to put that 7600X3D combo and $115 2TB 990 pro I've had on the shelf for months to good use. I swear it!

Ranulf · Friday at 2:54 PM

lakedude said:
Yes Intel's RL has been a disaster for those of us in the tech community and I'm glad I went with AMD this time around however no "normal" person knows anything about this "massive pr disaster". Intel still has a great reputation outside the financial and tech communities.

Over the last year, the RL problems have become well known among even non tech head gamers. It won't take long for people in chats to bring up the problem if they see it happen to a streamer. The issue is very well known now among the wider gaming community.

Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

Lifer

Diamond Member

Senior member

Lifer

Platinum Member

Platinum Member

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member

Lifer

Platinum Member

Golden Member

Lifer

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Lifer

Senior member

Lifer

Diamond Member

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Platinum Member