The Trump effect strikes again?

pmv · May 3, 2025

Australia re-elects Anthony Albanese as Labor rides anti-Trump wave to seal crushing win

Opposition leader Peter Dutton fails to dissociate himself from Trump-like rhetoric and policies – and loses his seat

www.theguardian.com

"Captain, sensors detect waves of incompetence and failure radiating from one region of the planet, causing political instability in societies across the entire planetary surface"

"Yet the originating region remains curiously immune to these political effects - why, Spock, why?"

GodisanAtheist · May 3, 2025

Good on Aussies

feralkid · May 3, 2025

MtnMan · May 3, 2025

Trump, spreading democracy across the globe... just not at home.

GodisanAtheist · May 3, 2025

MtnMan said:
Trump, spreading democracy across the globe... just not at home.

-The 5d Chess trumpers talk about. He knows the world needs a villain, and he was sick of waiting for the aliens from Independence Day.

MtnMan · May 3, 2025

GodisanAtheist said:
-The 5d Chess trumpers talk about. He knows the world needs a villain, and he was sick of waiting for the aliens from Independence Day.

But what about the lizard people?

itsmydamnation · May 3, 2025

the Murdoch media in australia are coping so hard

Andrew Bolt says it was the voters who were wrong as Sky News commentators grieve Dutton election loss | Amanda Meade

News Corp commentator blames Liberal party for allegedly shying away from culture wars as Peta Credlin in furious agreement: ‘we didn’t do enough of a culture war’

www.theguardian.com

“No, the voters aren’t always right. This time they were wrong,” Bolt wrote.

The reason for the loss? It was because the Liberal party “refused to fight the ‘culture wars’”.

IronWing · May 3, 2025

itsmydamnation said:
the Murdoch media in australia are coping so hard

Andrew Bolt says it was the voters who were wrong as Sky News commentators grieve Dutton election loss | Amanda Meade

News Corp commentator blames Liberal party for allegedly shying away from culture wars as Peta Credlin in furious agreement: ‘we didn’t do enough of a culture war’

www.theguardian.com

"We weren't conservative enough." Every single time.

itsmydamnation · May 3, 2025

IronWing said:
"We weren't conservative enough." Every single time.

For everyones background over the last two election cycles the conservative party has had their heartland seats ripped out from them by independents all running on socially / enviro progressive , financially conservative platforms. Seats the Left never had a chance of wining and not just one or two but like 10-12. When you need 76 seat to govern thats 10-12 to make up else were. when your already 20seats behind ( 2023 result) they needed big swings in their favour.

The swings went the other way.

The right in Australia has lost the millennials and Z's and just all women in general. Almost all those independents are women.

I feel like in Australia our significant social mobility + compulsory voting + preferential voting has made us significantly more resilient to bullshit.

edit: one more thing , in Australia the two major parties are often referred to as shit ( liberial , right ) and shit-lite ( labor, centre-left), This is one of their problems , labor and libs fundamentally agree in terms of economics ( obliviously with right favouring high earners more ) so in many ways their is no downsides to the left.

what we see now can almost trace back to 1996 and lib policy, if you didnt own property in 1996 Libs havent been the party for you.

Ashberto · May 3, 2025

The liberal (right wing) leader lost his seat and the election.

My morning cup of tea is extra nice today in Sydney.

Ashberto · May 3, 2025

itsmydamnation said:
For everyones background over the last two election cycles the conservative party has had their heartland seats ripped out from them by independents all running on socially / enviro progressive , financially conservative platforms. Seats the Left never had a chance of wining and not just one or two but like 10-12. When you need 76 seat to govern thats 10-12 to make up else were. when your already 20seats behind ( 2023 result) they needed big swings in their favour.

The swings went the other way.

The right in Australia has lost the millennials and Z's and just all women in general. Almost all those independents are women.

I feel like in Australia our significant social mobility + compulsory voting + preferential voting has made us significantly more resilient to bullshit.

edit: one more thing , in Australia the two major parties are often referred to as shit ( liberial , right ) and shit-lite ( labor, centre-left), This is one of their problems , labor and libs fundamentally agree in terms of economics ( obliviously with right favouring high earners more ) so in many ways their is no downsides to the left.

what we see now can almost trace back to 1996 and lib policy, if you didnt own property in 1996 Libs havent been the party for you.
View attachment 123169
View attachment 123167

Another interesting stat, 66% of Australians own or have a mortgage, so to do anything about Capital Gains tax or negative gearing is political suicide.

itsmydamnation · May 3, 2025

Ashberto said:
Another interesting stat, 66% of Australians own or have a mortgage, so to do anything about Capital Gains tax or negative gearing is political suicide.

So sort of , CGT and NG only apply to investment property. But then still to do anything with either of them will have to be a decade long slow reduction. For example in the state of Victoria the state government introduced additional taxes this year on investors of residential property and it has resulted in slightly lower house prices but significantly more first home buyers.

I was lucky i got on the train in 2008 and have had high income for ~ 20years ( im 39) but many people my age werent so lucky , anyone younger then me its exceedingly hard if not impossible for home ownership. Australia's retirement system is based on the idea the vast majority own their own home, something is going to have to change somewhere.

pmv · May 4, 2025

itsmydamnation said:
For everyones background over the last two election cycles the conservative party has had their heartland seats ripped out from them by independents all running on socially / enviro progressive , financially conservative platforms. Seats the Left never had a chance of wining and not just one or two but like 10-12. When you need 76 seat to govern thats 10-12 to make up else were. when your already 20seats behind ( 2023 result) they needed big swings in their favour.

The swings went the other way.

The right in Australia has lost the millennials and Z's and just all women in general. Almost all those independents are women.

I feel like in Australia our significant social mobility + compulsory voting + preferential voting has made us significantly more resilient to bullshit.

edit: one more thing , in Australia the two major parties are often referred to as shit ( liberial , right ) and shit-lite ( labor, centre-left), This is one of their problems , labor and libs fundamentally agree in terms of economics ( obliviously with right favouring high earners more ) so in many ways their is no downsides to the left.

what we see now can almost trace back to 1996 and lib policy, if you didnt own property in 1996 Libs havent been the party for you.
View attachment 123169
View attachment 123167

Add the odd letter 'u' here-and-there and that could almost be about the UK.

uallas5 · May 4, 2025

I'm wondering if Fox News here in the US is just showing headlines like "Australian Liberals Lose" and not bothering to say more....it's not like the majority of their viewers are interested in the details.

Greenman · May 4, 2025

pmv said:
Australia re-elects Anthony Albanese as Labor rides anti-Trump wave to seal crushing win

Opposition leader Peter Dutton fails to dissociate himself from Trump-like rhetoric and policies – and loses his seat

www.theguardian.com

"Captain, sensors detect waves of incompetence and failure radiating from one region of the planet, causing political instability in societies across the entire planetary surface"

"Yet the originating region remains curiously immune to these political effects - why, Spock, why?"

I hope the Australian liberals have the decency to send Trump a thank you note.

VRAMdemon · May 4, 2025

The Donald Trump effect:

"Making Liberal Governments Great Again"

RnR_au · May 4, 2025

Just a note here to the last two comments above in regard to the Australian 'liberals'....

The Australian Liberal party is one of the Conservative parties of Australia. Yes I know, its completely flipped to how it is in the USA. The other main one is the National party which is kinda considered to be the rural Conservative party. The Liberal and National party have been known as the Coalition (and LNP) for some decades now, some times with an emphasis on the coal part of Coal-ition as they have tended to adore coal and gas, and hate wind mills and solar systems.

The lefties in Australia politics are the Australian Labor Party (ALP) and the Greens. There is a good chunk of Independents for the last few elections. You could argue that the 'Teals' independents are lefties too since they are moderate conservatives who are independents since the LNP have been a poor choice for moderate conservatives for some election cycles now.

The rise of the Teal independents in the city electorates is why commentators like Andrew Bolt (the Dolt) are completely wrong. The vast body of Australian voters are to the left of the current LNP - remember that here in Australia, its compulsory to vote, so even political disinterested citizens have to spend at least 30secs making up their mind which of the choices smells the least bad.

But its a bit strong to congratulate Trump for the ALP win in Australia. The LNP had a massively incompetent campaign. They were in front at the start of the year, and I think they just wanted to coast.

pmv · May 4, 2025

^^^^
I find it interesting that the term "Liberal" means different things in different countries, yet at the same time there's a consistency there as well.

The actual philosophy and even policies of "Liberal" parties aren't necessarily hugely different from one country to another, but the context they are in, and the kind of opposing political parties they face, and differences in which aspect of 'Liberalism' they emphasise, mean they end up in different parts of the political spectrum.

The "Liberal" party in the UK was for most of the last century (and probably still) the centrist Party, the 'moderate' 'neither left nor right' party. In the US the "Liberals" are (or maybe were?) the 'left', and in lots of countries, like Australia (but plenty of others as well), they are one of the strands of the right.

IronWing · May 4, 2025

pmv said:
^^^^
I find it interesting that the term "Liberal" means different things in different countries, yet at the same time there's a consistency there as well.

The actual philosophy and even policies of "Liberal" parties aren't necessarily hugely different from one country to another, but the context they are in, and the kind of opposing political parties they face, and differences in which aspect of 'Liberalism' they emphasise, mean they end up in different parts of the political spectrum.

The "Liberal" party in the UK was for most of the last century (and probably still) the centrist Party, the 'moderate' 'neither left nor right' party. In the US the "Liberals" are (or maybe were?) the 'left', and in lots of countries, like Australia (but plenty of others as well), they are one of the strands of the right.

U.S. liberals are center right, free market with the slightest touch of socialism, more an aroma than any concrete policies. We have no left or even democratic socialist party.

Moonbeam · May 5, 2025

The Trump effect will happen more and more. People who relish the thought and acts that cause others to suffer do so because they themselves suffer from deeply repressed psychological pain and the only way their unconscious will allow them to escape it is by acting out in ways that assure self destruction. We see enemies and the worthless everywhere we look because of projection. The real enemy is the ego within. The larger the ego the greater the self hate. All our lives we were warned the bigger they are the harder they fall.

pmv · May 6, 2025

IronWing said:
U.S. liberals are center right, free market with the slightest touch of socialism, more an aroma than any concrete policies. We have no left or even democratic socialist party.

I'd agree with that take, but in terms of US political discourse, they are generally treated as constituting 'the left'. Hence you get terms like "extreme liberal", which to me always sounded like an oxymoron. Liberals being, by definition (in the UK context, especially pre-New-Labour), wishy-washy centrists.

nakedfrog · May 6, 2025

IronWing said:
U.S. liberals are center right, free market with the slightest touch of socialism, more an aroma than any concrete policies. We have no left or even democratic socialist party.

What about the Democratic Socialists of America or the Working Families Party?

RnR_au · May 6, 2025

pmv said:
The "Liberal" party in the UK was for most of the last century (and probably still) the centrist Party, the 'moderate' 'neither left nor right' party. In the US the "Liberals" are (or maybe were?) the 'left', and in lots of countries, like Australia (but plenty of others as well), they are one of the strands of the right.

The Liberal Party of Australia when it was created in 1943, was created for the middle class. So it was a centrist party, although it always had a focus on the 'individual'. From my understanding, starting in the late 70's the party slowly became influenced by the Institute of Public Affairs, a conservative think tank - kinda like the Heritage Foundation.

John Howard (PM from 1996 to 2007) was probably the last Liberal leader that successfully balanced the moderates and the conservatives inside his own party - aka the 'broad church'. After Howard we had the rise of the moderate conservative independents aka the Teals that felt that there was no space inside the party for them. This movement intensified when Tony Abbott became PM (National Right faction), as the Conservatives clearly held all the cards inside the party. There was a brief rebellion by the moderate faction when Abbott lost a challenge from Malcolm 'top hat' Turnbull, who later lost to another challenger Scott Morrison (Center Right faction).

There are two points that stems from the above in relation to the recent Australian Federal election;
* Peta Credlin was the Chief of Staff to former PM Tony Abbott. She is currently a member of the conservative commentary programming 'Sky After Dark' on Sky News Australia. On the election night where she held sway over a bunch of other commentators she said that the loss of the election was due to the party not doubling down on the Culture Wars.
* Zoe Daniels, a Teal independent, lost her seat to an openly gay Liberal party member from the moderate faction.

The Liberals here in Australia is in a real mess. To get back into power, they have to capture inner city seats like the moderate Tim Wilson did, but the faction with the most clout is the National Right faction - the faction that is the most right leaning and they are well supported by the Murdoch Sky News and various conservative radio talk shows. There is a large gulf between the two factions.

It also remains to be seen if their partner, the National Party, can be persuaded to dump the nuclear power plan. Only yesterday the Nationals stated that they planned to keep it.

I don't see a strong leader in the ranks of the Liberal party, and they lost good talent in the election. I think they'll be in the wilderness for a few more electoral cycles.

The Trump effect strikes again?

Lifer

Diamond Member

Lifer

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

No Lifer

Diamond Member

Attachments

Junior Member

Junior Member

Diamond Member

Lifer

Golden Member

Lifer

Diamond Member

Platinum Member

Lifer

No Lifer

Elite Member

Lifer

No Lifer

Platinum Member