Do You Suspect Your Homeowners Association Of Rigged Elections?

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
I have lived in this condominium development for 25 years now. My unit was my mother's house, which I inherited and acquired in 2023 when she died.

At my age -- 77 + -- I look for volunteer opportunities to provide meaning and value to my life. That is, looking for engagement outside of my home, social interaction and so forth is a bigger priority for me now. But if I volunteer for something, I have to get from it a sense of intrinsic satisfaction.

I had a "federal" career inside the Capital Beltway, with experience in grants management, accounting and auditing, statistics and information systems. My early retirement was a personal choice, and if I'd been married with children, I would've suffered through the 30-year milestone. But an early retirement program was offered, and -- when I took it -- the alarms went off in my office, the HR division and beyond in my department. Suddenly, they posted about 25 job notices in position categories for which I would qualify, all offering a promotion to the next highest grade. I took copies home and stuck them on my wall. Then, I threw a dart at the general area of those postings to choose my "experimental application" effort.

Usually when you apply for a federal job, it may take several weeks before you get an interview, and several weeks after that if you actually get the job offer. This is a standard pattern. So within a couple days of submitting my application for the dart-selected job, I was called to interview. Walking the three blocks to the interview, I decided I was going to retire anyway. Half way through that interview, I was asked when I would like to come to work. I declined and apologized. Over the next several weeks, I was offered other opportunities which I declined. The HR employee processing my retirement papers tried to argue that federal jobs were a good deal, so I threw up my hands and told her "who cares!?" My own supervisor suggested that I could have his job when he retired, but I politely declined. I was getting satisfaction at every stage as I took action to terminate my career and take retirement.

Before I retired, I served on my condominium association board as director and elected Treasurer for 4 years in the 1990s and again when I relocated to California, serving as director and Treasurer for 4 more years using telephone, Skype or Zoom to attend meetings. I was also the Treasurer for a local PAC or political club, and that's a story by itself as we discovered that my predecessor had embezzled $5,000 or more. That story continued to a second embezzlement discovery, which I uncovered by insisting on bank statements from the accounting firm Kindee Durkee. This was major criminal news in California back in 2010, and the FBI froze all the PAC accounts. Diane Feinstein was robbed of $10 million. But because I persisted to see bank documents, the criminal-in-charge of the accounting firm kept her hands off our treasury account. But gratitude from the club seemed sparse.

Finally, I just settled down to take care of my aging mother. After she died, I was thinking to reconstruct what remains of my life. The HOA here -- as it usually and periodically does -- sent around a call for executive board nominations, so I submitted mine.

There were two positions, one incumbent, and they already had a second nomination. Attending that meeting when they were accepting the nominations, I sensed a management representative and board who seemed ill at ease: they seemed unbalanced by my submission. An outgoing board member had been influential in the association for the last two decades, and I already had an impression over the last few years that she just didn't like me. I began to suspect that the other candidate was her choice and proxy, but I let my own nomination go forward.

The other candidate was a local dentist who scrawled her nomination in cursive giving three lines of text: "I've owned several homes in my life, and I understand landscaping." she has lived here a total of two years -- from the year my mother died. At the annual meeting with announcement of election results, of some 40 votes (of 60 homeowners) cast, I only received 5. The longtime community influential was there, sitting next to the other candidate in jovial conversational exchange, so my suspicions received greater confirmation.

Contesting an election or other options offered by the California Association of HOAs would seem to become an embarrassment. I was merely hoping to be an "at-large" director, not intending to threaten elected officers or seeking to be elected Treasurer (or other officer).

Understandably, I'm not keen on offering my assistance with anything more in this association. I'm almost calculating to wait until someone asks or suggests I volunteer for something, so I can have my comeuppance. I can imagine myself making a reply like this: "Gee. I'm sorry, but I don't think I have either the skill-set or experience to assist you . . . "

This has not been a pleasant week. But in my previous experience, I had never seen an election as suspicious as last week's.

Anyone else with similar observations or experience?
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
So the short version of that is you ran for a position on the board and lost, and that leads you to believe the election was rigged? I suppose that's possible, I just don't see why it would be done unless the whole board is involved in some sort criminal activity.
The board of the HOA I'm in was elected by less than 10% of the association members. Almost no one goes to the meetings, and no one really cares what they do as long as the grass gets mowed.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
So the short version of that is you ran for a position on the board and lost, and that leads you to believe the election was rigged? I suppose that's possible, I just don't see why it would be done unless the whole board is involved in some sort criminal activity.
The board of the HOA I'm in was elected by less than 10% of the association members. Almost no one goes to the meetings, and no one really cares what they do as long as the grass gets mowed.
What you observe is totally reasonable for most people. But I'm retired and look for opportunities to socially engage people in worthwhile activity on a regular basis. It's been a year and a half since I lost my family living here, so I'm refocusing and attempting to build more than just a life of TV, regular exercise and gardening.

Besides that -- this association made some mistakes over the last decade or so, allowing its entire Repair and Replacement Reserve fund to be emptied through a needless lawsuit because of dismal contract management. Everybody who has lived here since before that time remembers, and it came up in discussion at this annual election meeting.

Ordinarily, I think I come away feeling petty about this and my assertions or speculations, but observing the people or actors that I mentioned, I have very strong suspicions -- more than I might otherwise have just for losing an election. I could post the respective nomination form submittal facsimiles for the stark comparison, but I'll just let our readers here imagine two paragraphs of "EXPERIENCE" and "REASON FOR SERVING" on the board based on my explanation of personal histories. It was easy to quote my opposition's scrawled submittal almost word for word. And of course the fact that the other candidate only moved into the neighborhood around the time of Moms' passing, versus my two and a half decades.

Also, the rate of homeowner participation such as you cite firsthand is pretty common, and just as well lays the groundwork for the lawsuit I mentioned. Around the time of Moms' passing, they undertook a road-paving project which most people could say wasn't needed yet -- probably for at least a few more years. This road is a quarter-mile end-to-end on a steep hill, but wasn't in bad repair before they splurged their R&R fund again to cover it. They closed the road for many days again last summer for more work. They are still working on this now, scheduling a road-closure to apply sealer! But the homes need painting, and that work is overdue. Asked about it, the sitting board admits that the paving work drained their R&R fund. AGAIN!

I certainly had this and other topics to advise the board at the time of the annual meeting last week, and homeowners agreed. But the participation has always been a problem here and at my former Virginia development: there, it must've taken 15 years to get a quorum for an annual meeting so they could change the quorum in the Bylaws and CC&R's to facilitate meetings. People are notoriously irresponsible to leave association governance up to a few. Then they suddenly throw tantrums about special assessments needed to cover shortfalls.

But if a person understands probability and statistics, and can observe the limited interaction of neighbors over a year's time, the election results are suspicious even for the expected lack of participation so only 40 ballots of 60 were submitted. People who know me personally are only residents of maybe four homes adjacent to mine.

I'm going to get on with my gardening and exercise today. Another neighbor who ran unsuccessfully in the previous election two years earlier lost by the same margin -- she only got about 4 votes. Yet, she owns a nursery business, and would otherwise be able to contribute something to an executive board. I may drop by the nursery today to pick up some seedlings and a bag of chicken manure. I may visit her at her office.

As you say with slight skepticism about the possibility of fraud, the sitting board members may not all equally be aware of it. There is an "inspector of elections" who lives next door to the other candidate, and they all know the Senior Influential I mentioned. But no doubt that the opposition candidate was recruited by this latter person. I would even suspect the Influential of collecting ballots to submit in proxy. She has probably established an arrangement with many residents to do that for them, relieving them of a need to attend meetings or vote directly. That explains a shadowy range of behavior that is not outright fraud. MORAL OF THAT STORY: Be careful whom you might piss off in the neighborhood. Whatever it was, it happened with me just short of ten years ago.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
HOA's can get messy.

A few years ago around a million dollars worth of work for an HOA. They had one fellow who made all of the decisions on what was to be done and who did the work. He had years of construction experience, and repairs were handled promptly and properly done. He held that post for 12 years without an issue until a couple of homeowners got together and accused him of malfeasance. He quit at the meeting when that accusation was made, and the job was handed to a committee. Everything pretty much ground to a halt at that point. It took month to get even minor repairs completed, not a single person on the board had any construction experience and they ended up hiring a consultant to develop a scope of work for every project.
I actually went to a board meeting and explained to them that they were throwing away thousands on some minor repairs they asked me to perform and told them the correct of doing them.
To top it all off, they never found a hint of any questionable activity around the fellow that had been doing the job.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,765
14,182
146
Thankfully, we don't have any kind of HOA here, but we DO have a Community Club in which membership was MANDATED by a federal bankruptcy judge several years ago.
The way it works, if your property is "IN" the community club because some former property owner opted in...your property is "IN" forever. There are a few homes and unimproved lots that were never opted "IN," and they're in high demand. IIRC, membership is up to $195/year. Not a horrible amount...IF you use it. In 6 1/2 years, we've gone to the little cafe that is operated by outside people on a contract. We've never used the pool or any of their exercise equipment, gone for any of their "arts & crafts" classes, etc. Yet we pay the annual membership fees so they don't put a lien on our property.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
Thankfully, we don't have any kind of HOA here, but we DO have a Community Club in which membership was MANDATED by a federal bankruptcy judge several years ago.
The way it works, if your property is "IN" the community club because some former property owner opted in...your property is "IN" forever. There are a few homes and unimproved lots that were never opted "IN," and they're in high demand. IIRC, membership is up to $195/year. Not a horrible amount...IF you use it. In 6 1/2 years, we've gone to the little cafe that is operated by outside people on a contract. We've never used the pool or any of their exercise equipment, gone for any of their "arts & crafts" classes, etc. Yet we pay the annual membership fees so they don't put a lien on our property.
An HOA by another name.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,765
14,182
146
An HOA by another name.
Almost…they don’t deal with paint colors or lawn length, or any of the normal HOA bullshit…but they definitely take your money.
In fairness, their facilities are generally very well kept. They have the clubhouse with indoor pool and sauna, basketball court, some exercise equipment, a few outdoor activities, plus 5 parks with assorted activities nd two outdoor pools.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
Not a bad deal for $16 a month.
My HOA has been fairly laid back so far, and has a huge win getting the city to put in street lights for us.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
I mentioned a neighbor who only got 4 votes in the previous year's election, hoping to discuss these matters with her. She had been hosting wine-and-cheese mixers for the neighborhood. So I took a crisp new Benjamin from my wallet and put it in an envelope expressing a desire to confer with her for less than an hour -- suggesting the $100 was to subsidize the next mixer, but if she wasn't going to host any more parties she could keep it or give it back, either way.

Told her not to talk to the neighbors -- including another friend -- and not to speak with members of the existing board -- that we could consider the prospects of communication with others after I spoke to her. I didn't describe anything else in this missive accept that the topic was related to elections. Gave her my e-mail address; urged her to reach out so we could meet face-to-face.

She would've got the envelope in her mail by today, and I've still heard nothing.

BUT HERE'S MY LATEST THINKING. Many of these owners and neighbors probably lean "D" in their politics, and of those adjacent to my unit, I can identify two. My city is "purple" in a "pink" county. It was obvious on my nomination "EXPERIENCE" statement that I had been a career federal civil servant. Somehow, people skewed to the Right these days blame us for all their gripes -- like there's some sort of bias against public servants.

So that's a factor that could explain a loss of votes to my board-seat candidacy.

I can also step out my front door and count two rental units within 20 feet -- across the street and adjacent. There is likely a 3rd rental unit a couple doors up. The number of rented units is a likely measure of undirected proxy votes in an election.

The local Influential I mentioned, who has lived here for 33 years and served on the board for as many as 25 years until now -- retiring from her board position -- is a local businesswoman. But I cannot determine what her business does. She's 70 years old. There is no doubt in my mind that she is the Head Kingmaker, and had already pre-selected the winner who defeated me in the election.

I've been advised by my old friend in Virginia -- colleague on the HOA board for my property back there (which I've sold last year) -- to back away from all of this. He's suggesting that the existing board and management agent can do things to annoy me. So I'll just wait to see if the neighbor responds to my note, explain to her that we have a Kingmaker and a lot of proxies, but there's nothing to do about or nothing I can suggest we do.

You'd think that a $100 would at least inspire someone to respond as a courtesy . . .
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
The woman probably thinks you're a nut if your lucky, and a creep if your not. There is also a very good chance you've made her quite uncomfortable. Take your friends advice and let it go.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
The woman probably thinks you're a nut if your lucky, and a creep if your not. There is also a very good chance you've made her quite uncomfortable. Take your friends advice and let it go.
How is being considered "a nut" being lucky? I spoke to my cousin and housemate, who had also attended the last mixer and told her what I'd done with the money and note. With her impression of Mary she didn't make the same conclusion you do.

But what you say is possible. I don't mind subsidizing future neighborhood gatherings with my money, but I can agree with you and my former Virginia neighbor: I can "let it go" until it can come up in some casual conversation with Mary or another person here. But I don't see any reason to totally bury the idea of someone up the hill with their thumb on the scale.

I could also wonder how the winning candidate -- newcomer to the neighborhood -- feels about all this. How would a person feel if they knew full well they'd been preselected for a neighborhood election outcome? I even have to ask myself how I might feel about it. Back in the 1990s, heading into my first year as Treasurer back East, my friend -- already mentioned -- had merely come to me and urged me to run for a board position, because they had a need for someone to be association Treasurer -- finance and accounting being my strong skill-sets. In years prior to that, I'd encountered the same resistance to my candidacy at a time when the development was new. So in the later experience assisted by my friend, I wouldn't have known what proxies were collected to ensure my own election -- it never occurred to me. And it never much occurred to me the second time around, being elected to serve "long-distance" while living in CA. I would've thought that my second go-around as a director and Treasurer had arisen from my prior reputation.

All in all, it leaves me in a different attitude now regarding people I encounter here -- friend or otherwise. I feel I have to be more guarded and calculating in my social conversations and expression.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
106
I have lived in this condominium development for 25 years now. My unit was my mother's house, which I inherited and acquired in 2023 when she died.

At my age -- 77 + -- I look for volunteer opportunities to provide meaning and value to my life. That is, looking for engagement outside of my home, social interaction and so forth is a bigger priority for me now. But if I volunteer for something, I have to get from it a sense of intrinsic satisfaction.

I had a "federal" career inside the Capital Beltway, with experience in grants management, accounting and auditing, statistics and information systems. My early retirement was a personal choice, and if I'd been married with children, I would've suffered through the 30-year milestone. But an early retirement program was offered, and -- when I took it -- the alarms went off in my office, the HR division and beyond in my department. Suddenly, they posted about 25 job notices in position categories for which I would qualify, all offering a promotion to the next highest grade. I took copies home and stuck them on my wall. Then, I threw a dart at the general area of those postings to choose my "experimental application" effort.

Usually when you apply for a federal job, it may take several weeks before you get an interview, and several weeks after that if you actually get the job offer. This is a standard pattern. So within a couple days of submitting my application for the dart-selected job, I was called to interview. Walking the three blocks to the interview, I decided I was going to retire anyway. Half way through that interview, I was asked when I would like to come to work. I declined and apologized. Over the next several weeks, I was offered other opportunities which I declined. The HR employee processing my retirement papers tried to argue that federal jobs were a good deal, so I threw up my hands and told her "who cares!?" My own supervisor suggested that I could have his job when he retired, but I politely declined. I was getting satisfaction at every stage as I took action to terminate my career and take retirement.

Before I retired, I served on my condominium association board as director and elected Treasurer for 4 years in the 1990s and again when I relocated to California, serving as director and Treasurer for 4 more years using telephone, Skype or Zoom to attend meetings. I was also the Treasurer for a local PAC or political club, and that's a story by itself as we discovered that my predecessor had embezzled $5,000 or more. That story continued to a second embezzlement discovery, which I uncovered by insisting on bank statements from the accounting firm Kindee Durkee. This was major criminal news in California back in 2010, and the FBI froze all the PAC accounts. Diane Feinstein was robbed of $10 million. But because I persisted to see bank documents, the criminal-in-charge of the accounting firm kept her hands off our treasury account. But gratitude from the club seemed sparse.

Finally, I just settled down to take care of my aging mother. After she died, I was thinking to reconstruct what remains of my life. The HOA here -- as it usually and periodically does -- sent around a call for executive board nominations, so I submitted mine.

There were two positions, one incumbent, and they already had a second nomination. Attending that meeting when they were accepting the nominations, I sensed a management representative and board who seemed ill at ease: they seemed unbalanced by my submission. An outgoing board member had been influential in the association for the last two decades, and I already had an impression over the last few years that she just didn't like me. I began to suspect that the other candidate was her choice and proxy, but I let my own nomination go forward.

The other candidate was a local dentist who scrawled her nomination in cursive giving three lines of text: "I've owned several homes in my life, and I understand landscaping." she has lived here a total of two years -- from the year my mother died. At the annual meeting with announcement of election results, of some 40 votes (of 60 homeowners) cast, I only received 5. The longtime community influential was there, sitting next to the other candidate in jovial conversational exchange, so my suspicions received greater confirmation.

Contesting an election or other options offered by the California Association of HOAs would seem to become an embarrassment. I was merely hoping to be an "at-large" director, not intending to threaten elected officers or seeking to be elected Treasurer (or other officer).

Understandably, I'm not keen on offering my assistance with anything more in this association. I'm almost calculating to wait until someone asks or suggests I volunteer for something, so I can have my comeuppance. I can imagine myself making a reply like this: "Gee. I'm sorry, but I don't think I have either the skill-set or experience to assist you . . . "

This has not been a pleasant week. But in my previous experience, I had never seen an election as suspicious as last week's.

Anyone else with similar observations or experience?
My experience is limited with HOA's...HOA Boards are volunteer elected officials with little or no experience in leadership or community management. They have no experience with Public Safety / Community Safety thus are always making horrible decisions. HOA's are at best a "necessary evil" because common sense is not...and way too many members can't do the right thing in terms of living in a community. What the membership fails to understand in my HOA...the CCR's are part of the "real estate sales contract" and are signed off by the homeowner thus a "contract" obligation. When the CCR's are challenged in court (Nevada) the judge asks to see the Real Estate Sales Contract early on in the court proceedings and sees the CCR's / HOA bylaws are part of the Real Estate Sales Contract and more often then not the challenge to the CCR's is dismissed by the Court(s)...
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
My experience is limited with HOA's...HOA Boards are volunteer elected officials with little or no experience in leadership or community management. They have no experience with Public Safety / Community Safety thus are always making horrible decisions. HOA's are at best a "necessary evil" because common sense is not...and way too many members can't do the right thing in terms of living in a community. What the membership fails to understand in my HOA...the CCR's are part of the "real estate sales contract" and are signed off by the homeowner thus a "contract" obligation. When the CCR's are challenged in court (Nevada) the judge asks to see the Real Estate Sales Contract early on in the court proceedings and sees the CCR's / HOA bylaws are part of the Real Estate Sales Contract and more often then not the challenge to the CCR's is dismissed by the Court(s)...
Because it is volunteer position, it's sometimes taken by people that simply want to be in charge and tell others what to do. Sometimes you end up with a whole group of people that have no business running things. On top of that, a whole bunch of people want nothing to do with being on the board, but have plenty to say about how it should be run.
I was president of a small 501C3 nonprofit for a short time, and whenever someone came to me to bitch and tell how they would run it, I'd agree. then I'd tell them I fully support them taking over and would call an election right away so they could get everything order. Not one single person even considered the offer. Most never spoke to me again.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
Because it is volunteer position, it's sometimes taken by people that simply want to be in charge and tell others what to do. Sometimes you end up with a whole group of people that have no business running things. On top of that, a whole bunch of people want nothing to do with being on the board, but have plenty to say about how it should be run.
I was president of a small 501C3 nonprofit for a short time, and whenever someone came to me to bitch and tell how they would run it, I'd agree. then I'd tell them I fully support them taking over and would call an election right away so they could get everything order. Not one single person even considered the offer. Most never spoke to me again.
This -- what you describe -- is probably one of a few reasons the local PAC non-profit I'd served came to have an embezzler from the beginning, and further, almost lost their money to the Kindee-Durkee accounting firm I mentioned. INTERNAL CONTROLS! It was so simple, first to discover my predecessor Treasurer, and second to stop KD from stealing money from us before the FBI investigation. Just insist on bank statements.

Here, in the current situation: they send around the call for nominations as a legal requirement, and I didn't think about all the ramifications from my prior experience. First, I e-mailed my completed nomination to the management agent, asking that she confirm receipt in reply-e-mail, saying I'd hand-deliver at their monthly meeting if I didn't hear from her. She didn't reply -- first "signal" as a non-signal. When I arrived at that meeting, the Kingmaker and outgoing board member tried to make me feel uncomfortable about the visit from county social services 7 years ago (I was shouting at Orange Face on the TV after thoughtlessly leaving the sliding glass door open -- screen closed. That was the second indication. Next, the board president addresses me -- can't remember the exact words, but "Who are you, why are you here and whaddya want?" The management agent, discussing the nomination receipts, was very uncomfortable and mumbled something about "this . . . third nomination". Before I left, the board vice-president condescendingly asked me if I enjoyed the board meeting and was satisfied with what informed me.

It was obvious at that time that they seldom have ANY owners attending ANY meeting other than the board members themselves with the agent. Already attentive to Madame Kingmaker and slow to process and react, I concluded that a "fix was in" between the Kingmaker and the other candidate for the vacant position. I tried, through e-mail, to get the vice-president's indication that they already managed the situation and I needn't have thrown my hat in the ring, but obviously he couldn't do that -- it would bring more trouble, complaints, scrutiny -- possibly litigation. So he treated me as if I were naive, telling me and repeating it later at the wine-and-cheese party that "J____ (Kingmaker) isn't running for the board this time -- good luck to you!"

I don't know if it would've been better to pull my nomination and withdraw, or have expectations of losing but leaving it in the pile so they'd have it for future reference.

My problem is one of principles: I SIMPLY CANNOT STAND THE THOUGHT OF SOMEONE HAVING A FINGER ON THE SCALE, EVEN IF IT IS LEGITIMATE AND COMMON PRACTICE. I could incline to stir the pot and get other owner-members worked up about it, but there's nothing to be done.

I'm almost sure I didn't mentioned this in earlier posts. Back in the 1980s, I had friends who lived in Largo, Maryland. It was a mixed-race couple: she was local Baltimore girl of Dutch extraction; he was USMC veteran, mixed native-American and African-American. I remember sensing tension with Julie's father when I was invited for TG dinner at the time of their marriage. They were aggressively trying to get on the BOD at their Largo condominium, and were severely resisted. They persisted. They owned a red vehicle: soon, someone poured a bucket of white enamel paint all over their car.

So I can do no more. I may eventually have a conversation with another neighbor who had performed with Stevie Wonder until she broke her hip. She's a pastor in her church -- very busy, but she treats me politely and well, and I think I have her respect. She knows more than what she communicates. She was one of the three other regular residents at the election meeting. I can discuss it with her. I always joke with her that she needs to tell me my fortune, because she dresses sometimes like a fortune-teller. She gets all upset because "fortune-telling is contrary to her religion." Really, a delightful person, but I sense that she holds me at arm's length.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
UPDATE! NEW INFORMATION! A PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION GOES FORWARD A NOTCH OR SO

I assume that someone is following this, and I apologize for my previous TLTR post, but it's an unfolding story.

I have a neighbor who lives across the street. He has been in the development almost as long as have I -- 24 years, and he is a walking archive of association history since that time. I personally should've been on top of events, but -- then -- it was Moms' house, her habit for maintenance and repair, and I had other preoccupations, like traumatic terms of service as a PAC Treasurer through two embezzlement crises: My predecessor and then the Kindee-Durkee scandal. After 2010, I was f***ing exhausted.

I had a chat with my neighbor. We both hark from the same Alma Mater -- UC Riverside -- and he had started just before I finished grad school. I wanted to explain to him what I knew about numbers and Bayesian probability from the election results. He wasn't privy to the actual results yet.

I asked him, first, if he voted. Yes, he told me. But then he volunteered unsolicited that he didn't vote for me. "I won't press you as to why," I told him, but he volunteered more information.

"Your resume nomination was great," he told me. He was truly impressed. But he had encountered the Board President before the election submittal deadline, and asked the latter for a recommendation. And my neighbor had developed trust in the President, but we both agreed that they had made a mistake in a single board decision to re-pave our road at this time -- it could've waited. So I was stunned that the President put his thumb on the scale to pick my competitor -- the dentist with four lines of scrawled information on the nomination form.

Thus, the board was ill-at-ease and less than cordial when I attended the meeting two months ago to submit my nomination. They had already planned to choose my competitor themselves. But it would be totally legitimate according to state-regulated condominium governance rules.

Fred and I stood in the road between his house and mine, putting together our mutual knowledge of rented units. counting the nine units evenly on either side of my own, there were six rentals. How many additional rental units were there? The information is available at the association's management office. But considering the sample we had, there are quite a number in addition to those. And this means there is a considerable number of undirected proxy votes: absentee owners would rather let the residents decide elections. Only an occasional absentee owner would involve themselves in the governance, but they still might be inclined to offer a proxy.

The management company, any long term influential owners or long-standing board members, the Inspector of Elections and board members could collect the proxies. At some point, however, one or a few holders of proxies would define choices for the vacant board positions.

And in this election, the choice had already been made: the vacant directorship would go to the dentist who has owned some homes and understands landscape and irrigation, or that anyone would find reading her handwritten scrawl a restful and easy experience.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,598
774
136
Hmmm... Much more of this and this thread will get moved out of Home and Garden.

Frankly, nothing you have written so far seems in any way outrageous or nefarious (at least not to me) unless you think others shouldn't have been allowed to vote for (or express their support for) the dentist.

You seem to already have a lot of things going on in your life. Is now a good time to be seeking out additional drama? As Greenman has already suggested, perhaps you should let this thing go. My two cents...
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,765
14,182
146
Not a bad deal for $16 a month.
My HOA has been fairly laid back so far, and has a huge win getting the city to put in street lights for us.

Nope...it's not terrible...IF it was optional...but it's mandated by a federal bankruptcy court. Pay or lose your house.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
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Hmmm... Much more of this and this thread will get moved out of Home and Garden.

Frankly, nothing you have written so far seems in any way outrageous or nefarious (at least not to me) unless you think others shouldn't have been allowed to vote for (or express their support for) the dentist.

You seem to already have a lot of things going on in your life. Is now a good time to be seeking out additional drama? As Greenman has already suggested, perhaps you should let this thing go. My two cents...
The best advice to me -- or which I might even give myself -- is to back away from reacting further after rediscovering the role of King-Makers and Proxies in condominium governance.

This is just the way things are, and they can't be changed without a significant number of owners collaborating for such change. But it's a gross hypocrisy to call for nominations and publish them, if the sitting BOD has already made their selection -- crossing their fingers in hope that there will be no further nominations than just those anticipated to fill the vacant positions.

You wonder how those people would be able to look a person in the eye.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
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The best advice to me -- or which I might even give myself -- is to back away from reacting further after rediscovering the role of King-Makers and Proxies in condominium governance.

This is just the way things are, and they can't be changed without a significant number of owners collaborating for such change. But it's a gross hypocrisy to call for nominations and publish them, if the sitting BOD has already made their selection -- crossing their fingers in hope that there will be no further nominations than just those anticipated to fill the vacant positions.

You wonder how those people would be able to look a person in the eye.
Or the whole thing might have been 100% above board and everyone just liked the other guy for whatever reason. The why's and how's don't really matter. It just is.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
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Or the whole thing might have been 100% above board and everyone just liked the other guy for whatever reason. The why's and how's don't really matter. It just is.
Actually, that's not the way my neighbor saw it. He just did as instructed and voted for the other candidate. Everything I observed suggests that the long-time King Maker had pre-selected the other candidate, and they didn't expect any additional nominations at the submission deadline. The other candidate had only lived here two years. The King Maker was privy to the paperwork of new residents who just purchased their unit. The board president became a board member in his first year here -- five years ago. That's all an unusual pattern, or further confirms my educated guess about it.

I am backing away from causing any disturbance about it, although I wonder what the sitting BOD will say or how they might react if I start attending their meetings.

As I said -- in the annual meeting last week -- only about two or three owners attended in addition to other board members, the inspector of elections, the two candidates and the King Maker.

I can always hope for the opportunity to say this when someone asks for my help: "I'd love to help you out . . . . which way did you come in? . . . " But no sense in dwelling on either that possibility or how I might react more positively.

ADDENDUM / ADDITIONAL THOUGHT: I could always attach the two nomination forms without the identifying information of names, addresses or phone numbers. I think anyone here would react with surprise -- "That guy has a background in finance and accounting, and served on an association executive board for eight years. So how is this possible?" But it's more trouble than I need to make my point. So I'm letting it go and backing away from the entire thing, as I said.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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JUST ANOTHER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS: It is probably common among HOAs in a range of development sizes that the boards exercise noticeable control over successive elections and the filling of those board seats. It's just a fact of life.

There are King Makers -- and there are undirected proxies. Moreover, despite the necessary effort, current board members can significantly influence election outcomes by word of mouth.

I had mentioned my cumulative eight years as a director and Treasurer. In the two four-year sequences, a friend and colleague already serving as director and -- at least once -- as President, had come to me asking to submit my nomination. So my own experience, then, I was really serving upon request. The election was a mere formality, and others saw to it that I had the votes.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
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So now you don't have to bother with it. Count your blessings.
I can count my blessings insofar as HOAs have a similar pattern for selecting board members over and above purely democratic vote counts and volunteerism, so that there was nothing hinky about my recent experience. It was to be expected.

I'm less lucky because this is a small development, there are fewer potential and willing board candidates, and even the architectural design attracts buyers who want to be left alone and it discourages active participation. So our board acts in the dark, so to speak. There is no extension of participatory opportunities. There is no use of committees -- for instance, a budget committee for contract review and selection. It appears that the President assumes responsibilities that should be relegated to Treasurer, defending himself by saying "I know and maintain good relations with our contractors."

I doubt that they go through a regular exercise of competing contracts for large projects.

Worse -- the Secretary doesn't attend the meetings in person. He participates with his cell-phone. There is no evidence that they produce minutes for review in subsequent meetings.

So the governance culture has increased the mistakes made by the board over the years. 15 years ago, a shoddy statement of work or scope of work statement and failure to monitor the work accordingly led to a painting and repair contractor racking up charges that were not anticipated, so the association didn't pay the contractor for the full bill. Thus,, the contractor sued each and every owner individually and the association was forced to settle -- draining the repair & replacement reserve.

The latest episode has concurrence with other owners as an additional mistake. They undertook a road-paving project when there were no cracks or potholes indicating it was imminently necessary. But paint is peeling off the structures -- overdue for a painting contract. Whatever they argue for the road project, the development is on a bluff or hill that is mostly solid rock. The road isn't "going anywhere", but visitors driving up the hill readily see the peeling paint.

Fewer mistakes would be made with the budget committee contract review process I described, and it would not be as easy to lay blame on individuals, because individuals would not be exclusively responsible for the decisions.

Because of this culture -- evolved over 50 years -- and because they are used to working in the dark, I personally experienced serious rudeness from board members when I went to their meeting to meet the deadline to turn in my nomination. The president looked at me at the start of the meeting and said tersely: "WHO are YOU? WHY are you HERE!? And WHADDYA WANT?!" I'm an owner in the association. without detailing further the rudeness from others that night, this is just seriously wrong, even as mere "behavior".

To even initiate change, we would need the remainder of owners to replace their indifference with simple civic concern. But indications are such that they don't want to do so.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,863
6,239
136
Sounds like most of the HOA members don't care what's going on or how decisions are made. You may end up having to sue or sell.
If you suspect actual criminal acts such as kickbacks or embezzlement, go to your local DA. If it's just decisions you don't agree with you're out of luck.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,225
1,813
126
Sounds like most of the HOA members don't care what's going on or how decisions are made. You may end up having to sue or sell.
If you suspect actual criminal acts such as kickbacks or embezzlement, go to your local DA. If it's just decisions you don't agree with you're out of luck.
It's more likely the latter.

I'm comfortable in what I know and believe. Consider that we may suspect funny business in the StarLink and SpaceX contracts with our government, but otherwise -- there is a well-defined process seeking competitive bids from multiple contractors. The same paradigm should persist in the microcosm: Dividing contract services into "small and routine" and "large periodic", some rule-of-thumb should determine that annual renewals should still require three bid submissions even if the current contractor is favored. Most certainly the larger contracts should require the same. Nothing is lost but some time and convenience to solicit volunteers and coordinate three or four monthly meetings culminating in board decisions, budget formulation and publication at year's end.

Slightly more work for the management agent and board members, slightly more printing and distribution costs, but nothing to get one's panties in a bunch. The result leaves fewer people questioning the budget, the contract results or the expense.

The original developer 50 years ago may have initiated the status-quo. Early and later residents included a couple construction contractors or other business luminaries. Ironically, when it comes to association governance, they may have inclined to cut corners and make short-cuts. Fast forward to merely 20 years ago, and the pattern was established.

But people who agree with me about the mistakes that are occurring still seem to trust the elected board members as "trustworthy". I'm not sure there is as much chance that they would want to pressure the same people for more transparency and meticulous practice. It would require a sales pitch.

So I'm left wondering what to do without antagonizing people.

My departed Moms didn't involve herself, even when she was of sound mind and didn't need a walker. As for me, I can't afford living in CA if I sell, since I'm under the Prop 13 taxes passed on through Moms' trust and folded into my own. Where would I go? Nevada? I don't have the energy to make a move. I still have the intention to die here -- in this house.

I think there's a "Prop 19" in effect that the same tax regime would follow me into another purchased property if its market value was equal to or less than what this home would sell for. I just don't have any plans to move, regardless how board governance is suboptimal.
 
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