Did Biden move too far Left? ( can we move this discussion out of the Tariff Thread)

Heartbreaker · 2025-05-09T11:11:57-0400

Someone has been repeatedly disrupting the Tariff thread starting with an attempt to "Both Sides" the Biden administration for moving as far left as Trump as moved Far Right.

It starts here if you want to read some backstory:

"The reality is, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted so far in their respective directions relative to center they they have both become memes."

I will indulge in some selective quoting to find some actual specific claims out of the general ranting, links to full posts included:

Democrats openly ignore and oppose laws on the books, and have allowed and in fact encouraged millions of illegal immigrants to enter and reside in the country in the last 16+ years.

What was made up? Transgender controversies, like the drag-queen library storytime day that was scheduled, then cancelled due to public outcry, less than 40 miles from the extremely rural area where I live? It was hugely publicized locally, and for good reason, it was ill conceived and a bad idea. That was certainly not made up.

Allowing, and in fact encouraging, transgender men to compete in womens sport competition is not treating all people with dignity and respect. And that is the position the democratic party has chosen over the past decade. Your comment appears tainted with bias from the start. Its time for you to be serious in discussion.

These were things I asked for evidence of, and instead received no answer, or goal post shifting. I'm hoping at the very least we can get this out of the Tariff thread.

nakedfrog · 2025-05-09T13:17:15-0400

Heartbreaker said:
These were things I asked for evidence of, and instead received no answer, or goal post shifting. I'm hoping at the very least we can get this out of the Tariff thread.

Yeah, there was a lot of that going on in there, and when his evidence presented was refuted, he tended to either ignore it or handwave it.

mikeymikec · 2025-05-09T13:49:18-0400

Biden moved left? At all?

fskimospy · 2025-05-09T14:30:58-0400

nakedfrog said:
Yeah, there was a lot of that going on in there, and when his evidence presented was refuted, he tended to either ignore it or handwave it.

I liked how he kept trying to get other people to disprove his assertions instead of proving them himself. That's not how any of this works.

ondma · 2025-05-09T14:47:48-0400

It is not so much a matter of "moving left" as just the wrong emphasis on policy and horrible messaging. The economy? Really not much he could have done there, except for improved messaging and a more empathy for those being hurt by inflation, instead of just continuing to say the economy was great based on metrics like unemployment and GDP. And maybe have proposed something like an across the board middle class tax cut instead of just directed aid to certain groups like first time home buyers.

The border was probably the only issue the Dems could have prevented, and it turned out to be a horrible screw up. Total failure at controlling immigration, and utter failure to counteract the Rep talking points. And blaming it on the lack of a border bill is just lame. Even Biden, toward the end of his term, when immigration had obviously become politically toxic, decreased the number of people let into the country. And, like his methods or not, Trump certainly has proved it is possible to dramatically decrease immigration without a border bill. Even then, the Dems had a horrible response to the crimes committed by illegals, by saying, "Well, illegals commit less crimes per person than non-immigrants." That is total failure to acknowledge the problem, and an insult to those who lost family members to violence from illegals. They should have instead expressed sympathy, admitted possible mistakes, and have promised to take stricter measures to prevent future violence.

As for DEI and gender issues, I generally agree with the Dem positions, but they put far too much emphasis on these issues, and failed to acknowledge that perhaps they had gone too far in some cases.

nakedfrog · 2025-05-09T14:52:57-0400

ondma said:
The border was probably the only issue the Dems could have prevented, and it turned out to be a horrible screw up. Total failure at controlling immigration, and utter failure to counteract the Rep talking points. And blaming it on the lack of a border bill is just lame.

Passing bills is how things are supposed to work, is it not?

ondma said:
Even Biden, toward the end of his term, when immigration had obviously become politically toxic, decreased the number of people let into the country. And, like his methods or not, Trump certainly has proved it is possible to dramatically decrease immigration without a border bill.

You can do all sort of things if you ignore laws ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

fskimospy · 2025-05-09T14:55:54-0400

ondma said:
As for DEI and gender issues, I generally agree with the Dem positions, but they put far too much emphasis on these issues, and failed to acknowledge that perhaps they had gone too far in some cases.

It's weird how often I see this said considering Democrats avoided the issue almost entirely and Republicans ran with it constantly.

I think it's fair to say the Democrats didn't do a good job in defending against attacks by Republicans on this issue but they did not emphasize it.

Heartbreaker · 2025-05-09T14:57:20-0400

ondma said:
Trump certainly has proved it is possible to dramatically decrease immigration without a border bill

By being a dictator, and ignoring the law.

ondma said:
As for DEI and gender issues, I generally agree with the Dem positions, but they put far too much emphasis on these issues, and failed to acknowledge that perhaps they had gone too far in some cases.

All the emphasis seems to be on the Republican side, making mountains out of molehills.

Indus · 2025-05-09T15:17:13-0400

If anything Biden was too far right..

on just about everything except unions.

soulcougher73 · 2025-05-09T15:27:12-0400

The pendulum is gonna swing far left at AOC. History has shown that is what has happens when you swing it too far one direction. Which i’m fine with. Love me some AOC.

ondma · 2025-05-09T17:39:11-0400

Heartbreaker said:
By being a dictator, and ignoring the law.

All the emphasis seems to be on the Republican side, making mountains out of molehills.

Well, I did say "whether you liked his methods or not". And of course, the pendulum has swing far too far to the other side with what Trump is doing.

The point still stands, however, that there were measures that could have been taken without a border bill. In fact, Biden did take action, but it was far, far to late. On June 4, 2024 he signed an executive order threatening to shut down the border if illegal crossings exceeded 2,500 per day. It actually did decrease illegal crossings effectively, but the damage had already been done, and it looked like (and probably was) a purely political move. It also made the Dems look like liars, because the entire time up until then they said nothing could be done without a border bill, which was clearly not true.

nakedfrog · 2025-05-09T18:16:07-0400

Imagine complaining about something the President does being a purely political move. The President. A political move. The President.

Indus · 2025-05-09T18:17:14-0400

soulcougher73 said:
The pendulum is gonna swing far left at AOC. History has shown that is what has happens when you swing it too far one direction. Which i’m fine with. Love me some AOC.

The thing is I don't think we get a next President without a bloody revolution.

If there's no habeus corpus.. there's no free/ fair election either.

manly · 2025-05-09T18:28:50-0400

ondma said:
Well, I did say "whether you liked his methods or not". And of course, the pendulum has swing far too far to the other side with what Trump is doing.

The point still stands, however, that there were measures that could have been taken without a border bill. In fact, Biden did take action, but it was far, far to late. On June 4, 2024 he signed an executive order threatening to shut down the border if illegal crossings exceeded 2,500 per day. It actually did decrease illegal crossings effectively, but the damage had already been done, and it looked like (and probably was) a purely political move. It also made the Dems look like liars, because the entire time up until then they said nothing could be done without a border bill, which was clearly not true.

Disingenuous take because Dems negotiated with Oklahoma's conservative senator to write the most stringent immigration bill ever, only for the deal to be tossed over Trump's political objection.

Reflex · 2025-05-09T18:40:07-0400

Indus said:
If anything Biden was too far right..

on just about everything except unions.

Unions and antitrust were the two areas Biden started reigning things in and moving modestly leftward. Aside from that virtually every Dem president of the past 30 years has been right of Reagan on most issues.

Reflex · 2025-05-09T18:43:23-0400

manly said:
Disingenuous take because Dems negotiated with Oklahoma's conservative senator to write the most stringent immigration bill ever, only for the deal to be tossed over Trump's political objection.

That bill was a horrorshow, and a stain on the presidency.

UNCjigga · 2025-05-09T18:44:16-0400

I’d like someone to point to or link to any Democrat-sponsored bill, law or policy that prompted Republicans to devote 70% of their time and energy on anti-trans bills. After gay marriage and gays in the military, I can’t think of any other major leftward swing on any LGBTQ issues over the past 10 years. I may be wrong though, because it isn’t something I was paying much attention too. I only started paying attention after Republicans made it their #2 issue behind immigration.

I know the interview of Kamala Harris talking about paying for prisoners’ sex changes gets a lot of airtime, but that policy actually came about organically within the justice department while Trump was President (first term.)

nakedfrog · 2025-05-09T18:52:26-0400

UNCjigga said:
I’d like someone to point to or link to any Democrat-sponsored bill, law or policy that prompted Republicans to devote 70% of their time and energy on anti-trans bills. After gay marriage and gays in the military, I can’t think of any other major leftward swing on any LGBTQ issues over the past 10 years. I may be wrong though, because it isn’t something I was paying much attention too. I only started paying attention after Republicans made it their #2 issue behind immigration.

I know the interview of Kamala Harris talking about paying for prisoners’ sex changes gets a lot of airtime, but that policy actually came about organically within the justice department while Trump was President (first term.)

I don't think anyone will be able to provide that for you, because the "Alliance Defending Freedom" are the ones who kicked it into high gear.

Inside the secret working group that helped push anti-trans laws across the country

Leaked emails give a glimpse of the religious-right networks behind transgender health care bans.

www.motherjones.com

Here's a handy chart showing the increase year by year since 2019.

The Rise of Anti-trans Legislation

In 2024, states around the country are voting on bills that would block trans people from receiving basic healthcare, education, legal recognition, and the right to publicly exist. Learn more and speak up for trans rights.

translegislation.com

repoman0 · 2025-05-09T19:06:01-0400

It would be kind of funny that these groups got a bunch of programmable automatons to believe their propaganda (and believe it so deeply in their barely sentient souls that they have to bring it up in random places like tariff discussions) if it didn’t have real consequences for people just trying to live their lives. Bunch of weird busybodies.

Jaskalas · 2025-05-09T19:24:59-0400

Imagine claiming the Biden admin was far left... when their younger far more liberal candidate campaigned with Liz Cheney.
Just 20 years ago that family ran this country... on the REPUBLICAN ticket. But yeah, go ahead and tell me how radical anyone not MAGA is.

Democrats do have some stupid policy positions that I object to.
But that pales in comparison to both the false promises and the outright hateful evil that Republicans have become.

dainthomas · 2025-05-09T19:36:18-0400

He apparently moved so far left, he did absolutely nothing the left really wanted. Even expanding the supreme court was too much.

fskimospy · 2025-05-09T20:30:25-0400

ondma said:
Well, I did say "whether you liked his methods or not". And of course, the pendulum has swing far too far to the other side with what Trump is doing.

The point still stands, however, that there were measures that could have been taken without a border bill. In fact, Biden did take action, but it was far, far to late. On June 4, 2024 he signed an executive order threatening to shut down the border if illegal crossings exceeded 2,500 per day. It actually did decrease illegal crossings effectively, but the damage had already been done, and it looked like (and probably was) a purely political move. It also made the Dems look like liars, because the entire time up until then they said nothing could be done without a border bill, which was clearly not true.

Dude what.

Moonbeam · 2025-05-09T21:46:32-0400

As I see it Americans are very right wing in their thinking and have been trained to be. Liberal thinking requires brain power, education as in 'real comprehension', and experience with self awareness. All of that creates people that are not easily led, more impervious to lies, and better at protecting themself from psychological abuse and victim mentality.

No corporation wants a nation full of people like that and billions are spent in advertising to create people who are psychologically immature and needy. Once you create a nation of needy vacuum cleaners dying to be filled with something to ease their pain, you can milk them for all they are worth.

Sad to say but business schools teach the art of psychological manipulation in their business classes. Vultures and vampires do very well income wise and attract some of out most capable brains. You just need to have experienced growing up in our modern culture to be practically assured of being sufficiently emotionally dead to want the training.

America is a gold mine for people who manipulate through fear and childish immature ego need a right wing paradise in the making.

Indus · 2025-05-10T08:43:17-0400

Think the problem @Josh128 is having is explaining going from $3 eggs are too high under Biden but losing $300,000 in his retirement accounts is fine under Trump Maga policies.

So he pulls the same delay, deny, diversion from his own position.

Imo Josh needs to seriously stop looking at financial markets on one monitor while looking at trans porn on the other. Only way in his mind, genitalia could effect prices and markets.

Josh128 · 2025-05-10T09:23:44-0400

Heartbreaker said:
Someone has been repeatedly disrupting the Tariff thread starting with an attempt to "Both Sides" the Biden administration for moving as far left as Trump as moved Far Right.

It starts here if you want to read some backstory:

"The reality is, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted so far in their respective directions relative to center they they have both become memes."

I will indulge in some selective quoting to find some actual specific claims out of the general ranting, links to full posts included:

These were things I asked for evidence of, and instead received no answer, or goal post shifting. I'm hoping at the very least we can get this out of the Tariff thread.

From the framing and tone of this post, and evidenced by the immediate reply and the very post above this one by Indus, its apparent that you and your cohort here dont want objective, civil discussion, but an echo chamber to continue to personally insult me and encourage other hateful individuals to personally insult and attack me instead of addressing the points I made.

This thread is yet more evidence of why the Democratic party has failed so badly in its message that its only pitch to pull in the voter is "We're against Trump!". This is why this country is on the outs-- ignorant, hateful people willing to die or kill than look for actual solutions if there is any possibility that it doesnt align with own preconceived notions. Truth doesnt matter, logic doesnt matter, only feelings matter. If you are ever ready for actual, civil discussion, you may PM me and I'll make a thread to address these issues that isnt designed with such blatant bias from the get go.

Did Biden move too far Left? ( can we move this discussion out of the Tariff Thread)

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