8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,000
126
8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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SolidQ said:
We need more wait data, but steam CCU peak 31k+ only, while Eternal was 100k+
Click to expand...
You are missing the forest because of all the trees in the way, brother. Eternal had multiplayer, dark ages doesn't. Console sales are important too. As it launched on Playstation, not just Xbox. Eternal was also released before Microsoft acquired ZeniMax Media. I don't think the 2 situations are comparable. Dark Ages is technically an in house Microsoft game. Steam numbers are a poor metric this go around for overall player count.
 
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Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
677
1,680
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DAPUNISHER said:
W1z does the quick and dirty vs Steve putting in much more effort with what I think is a superior testing methodology. In the case of their initial reviews, w1z used the newer beta driver from Nvidia, Steve was using the first one. w1z said it gave about a 5% boost to Nvidia over the first driver.

But yeah, bigger bar better is no longer relevant the way it once was. Any of us can upload videos, so there is no excuse for reviewers to not back up their testing with video evidence. If it is a 25 second test run clip, you failed the task successfully. Pedro AKA ZwormZ does a great job. Daniel-San has a good methodology too. I like that he states longer sessions may expose vram limitations his testing did not show. I would like even more emphasis on that point, to beat it into gamers heads that these short test and canned benchmarks are not always reflective of the real gaming experience.
Click to expand...
To be clear, I only brought up HUB to throw W1z a bone. I agree with you. Steve clearly spends more time and effort trying to sharpen his testing methodology. The point I was trying to make, is that VRAM limitations are tough to test even for someone who is putting in the effort to find them. It seems to be a very thin line between slightly reduced performance, and completely broken when you're at the razors edge of running out of VRAM.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
31,410
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SolidQ said:
poor, not poor, but at least show interest to the game. let's wait for sales numbers for DOOM.
Click to expand...
Sales numbers are not nearly as important for games that launch on game pass. Player numbers are the metric MS is more interested in. Steam takes what, 30%? I don't know what Sony takes. You want them playing on Xbox and/or game pass ideally, as it is your game. Of course revenue from any source is welcome, but game pass is the big push.
SolidQ said:
Click to expand...
Holy hell is Nvidia gaming a hot mess.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
31,410
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Rigg said:
To be clear, I only brought up HUB to throw W1z a bone. I agree with you. Steve clearly spends more time and effort trying to sharpen his testing methodology. The point I was trying to make, is that VRAM limitations are tough to test even for someone who is putting in the effort to find them. It seems to be a very thin line between slightly reduced performance, and completely broken when you're at the razors edge of running out of VRAM.
Click to expand...
Right on.

It is time consuming, which is obviously bad for the bottom line. Much easier to churn out low effort content, while staying in Nvidia's good graces.

igor_kavinski said:
They definitely must be using AI to write and test drivers now!
Click to expand...
This is the most popular hypothesis being circulated.
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,782
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SolidQ said:
poor, not poor, but at least show interest to the game. let's wait for sales numbers for DOOM.


Click to expand...

Interesting. The Dune beta wanted the Nvidia drivers from April 15th, v576.02. It popped up a dialog box on startup that there was a bug or issue if you're not running that driver version. That was the driver that got hotfixed in a day or two to 576.15. You could just say ok and run the game though. Dune ran fine on the 2060Super with drivers from last August. It will be interesting to see what happens on launch next month.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,163
9,316
136
DAPUNISHER said:
Sales numbers are not nearly as important for games that launch on game pass. Player numbers are the metric MS is more interested in. Steam takes what, 30%? I don't know what Sony takes. You want them playing on Xbox and/or game pass ideally, as it is your game. Of course revenue from any source is welcome, but game pass is the big push.

Holy hell is Nvidia gaming a hot mess.
Click to expand...
The complete meltdown of NVIDIA drivers this year is astounding. No external factor forced this on them.
Did they pull a modern company and just nuke their whole QA team?
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
31,410
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Jaskalas said:
The complete meltdown of NVIDIA drivers this year is astounding. No external factor forced this on them.
Did they pull a modern company and just nuke their whole QA team?
Click to expand...
One of the running jokes is that they pulled all the talent from the gaming division, and all that's left is some interns vibe coding. 😂
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,069
14,487
136
Jaskalas said:
The complete meltdown of NVIDIA drivers this year is astounding. No external factor forced this on them.
Did they pull a modern company and just nuke their whole QA team?
Click to expand...

Maybe they've been around game devs for too long: It's ok for it to be buggy and perform suboptimally on release, maybe they'll get around to fixing it in a year or so's time.
 
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M

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,907
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Rigg said:
To be clear, I only brought up HUB to throw W1z a bone. I agree with you. Steve clearly spends more time and effort trying to sharpen his testing methodology. The point I was trying to make, is that VRAM limitations are tough to test even for someone who is putting in the effort to find them. It seems to be a very thin line between slightly reduced performance, and completely broken when you're at the razors edge of running out of VRAM.
Click to expand...
That's part of the reason why "right settings" is such a disingenuous argument when it comes to VRAM limitations. It's not like you try ultra and you're getting 40FPS so you drop it to high and it's better at 70 now. That's pretty reasonable for someone to do.

Instead you try ultra and it's going fine, but then 10 minutes later the game turns into a stuttery mess. Fine, drop it to high and it fixes it; at least until another 15 minutes in when it starts freaking out again. Now you're dicking around with individual settings and trying to research the best settings on the internet from a bunch of other people who tried stuff but not necessarily in the areas that kill 8GB performance.

Devs should absolutely handle limited VRAM scenarios better, but the wild variability in how cards perform when that happens is just a crappy experience.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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This should be a fun watch


After watching, the juiciest thing to come out of the video is Aussie Steve hinting that AMD is going to price the 9060 XT 8GB and 16gb models low enough to get the recommendations over the 5060. Let's hope the partners and retailers don't gouge much and ruin it.

He obviously was limited in time and testing, so we will get the horror story of 8GB with PCIe 3 and 4 when he gets home. He stated how good the experience in Space Marine 2 was, but this must excluded the unloaded textures issue.
 
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R

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,782
2,341
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DAPUNISHER said:
This should be a fun watch


After watching, the juiciest thing to come out of the video is Aussie Steve hinting that AMD is going to price the 9060 XT 8GB and 16gb models low enough to get the recommendations over the 5060. Let's hope the partners and retailers don't gouge much and ruin it.

He obviously was limited in time and testing, so we will get the horror story of 8GB with PCIe 3 and 4 when he gets home. He stated how good the experience in Space Marine 2 was, but this must excluded the unloaded textures issue.
Click to expand...

Tim in the hotel bathtub showing off the 5060 or motioning it towards a garbage can was amusing. Numbers as expected. It is a $300 3070/60ti 5 years later.
 
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Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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