Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

DisEnchantment · Mar 23, 2022

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

poke01 · May 22, 2025

jpiniero said:
AMD doesn't want to maintain MSRP

Yep, they want you to think they do though. An illusion

DAPUNISHER · May 22, 2025

SolidQ said:
What is f**ing price for EMEA and 9060XT

ACER Nitro Intel Arc Et AMD RX 9060 XT OC • Pause Hardware

Acer a dévoilé la nouvelle Acer Nitro Intel Arc séries A et B, aux côtés de la puissante Acer Nitro Radeon RX 9060 XT OC.

pausehardware.com

Those prices are full derp. No one is going to pay that.

blckgrffn · May 22, 2025

DAPUNISHER said:
Those prices are full derp. No one is going to pay that.

Oh these prices? Don't mind these, refer to the official reviews for MSRP.

MrTeal · May 22, 2025

That's insane, and almost has to be wrong. Sure it has VAT, but so does this and it's currently in stock at Mindfactory.

Who's saving 10% to drop from a 9070 XT to a €650 9060XT?

maddie · May 22, 2025

Could be a good investigative venture to see where the dollars are really being assigned.

Is AMD lying about a realistic MSRP with acceptable AIB margins?
Are the AIB companies increasing their margins across the range?
Is retail the guilty party?

Probably all combining to give us this long running horror.

adroc_thurston · May 22, 2025

maddie said:
Is AMD lying about a realistic MSRP with acceptable AIB margins?

Everyone does.

SolidQ · May 22, 2025

MrTeal said:
That's insane, and almost has to be wrong

I think it''s for some countries in EMEA zone, doesn't touch like Germany etc

9060Xt pretty small cards

maddie · May 22, 2025

adroc_thurston said:
Everyone does.

Too much a brief, only partially accurate and incomplete an answer. We try not to give multiple choice answers here, proper explanations show a deeper understanding vs choosing the right checkbox on the exam.

Fraudulent MSRP wasn't always so and not in the ancient past either. When and why did it change?

The last big crypto boom at least had the excuse that a profit could be made at higher retail prices, but Covid appears to have unleashed the "GREED" and there's been a different excuse ever since for wanting more than what was accepted as reasonable before.

blckgrffn · May 22, 2025

maddie said:
Too much a brief, only partially accurate and incomplete an answer. We try not to give multiple choice answers here, proper explanations show a deeper understanding vs choosing the right checkbox on the exam.

Fraudulent MSRP wasn't always so and not in the ancient past either. When and why did it change?

The last big crypto boom at least had the excuse that a profit could be made at higher retail prices, but Covid appears to have unleashed the "GREED" and there's been a different excuse ever since for wanting more than what was accepted as reasonable before.

Personal opinion:

The businesses in question had an "opportunity" where they were forced into a long period of price experimentation, and the market moved the price of their products via supply and demand up sharply.

What did they discover?

They had been underpricing their products for years and so long as both (all) companies continued to chase margins acceptable to their stock market aspirations, then they had no reason to charge less for some long period of time.

Plainly, they discovered enthusiasts will pay more, so they can charge more. Super simple. They both had been too timid (although the 2080Ti was reaching...) to really go wild and move the cost of their entire product stacks upward so aggressively. Their hands were forced, then ours, and now its better for them where its at - or maybe sustainable.

We also enjoyed a pricing depression brought on by a bunch of macroeconomic factors and outright fiat currency manipulation and all that is being unwound in stupidly clumsy ways atm, in addition to which labor was severely underpriced in order to shift long term production to different global zones.

The Voodoo 2 my dad bought for our Gateway was stupidly expensive, and that Celeron beast cost ~$2k in like 1998 money!

Again, this is all my opinion.

adroc_thurston · May 22, 2025

maddie said:
Too much a brief, only partially accurate and incomplete an answer.

It's the right one.

maddie said:
When and why did it change?

When finfets happened and costs went *up*.

Josh128 · May 22, 2025

maddie said:
Fraudulent MSRP wasn't always so and not in the ancient past either. When and why did it change?

The last big crypto boom at least had the excuse that a profit could be made at higher retail prices, but Covid appears to have unleashed the "GREED" and there's been a different excuse ever since for wanting more than what was accepted as reasonable before.

Covid also appears to have unleashed the "stupidity" for people to fork over previously unheard of amounts of money to obtain "THE BEST" graphics cards, which later became "ANY AND ALL" graphics cards.

It is what the market wanted, and its what the market got.

GodisanAtheist · May 22, 2025

Not to go philosophical here but I also feel like an unspoken factor is *hopelessness* in many modern western societies, the underlying cause of the popularity of many far right movements and a desire to return to "better/simpler" times.

When people have no motivation to scrouge and save their money to buy a house, get married, have kids etc because these things seem wildly out of reach they will live at home, goon, and splurge their excess of disposable income on transient pleasures like gaming etc which used to be sort of a niche thing but now its very commonly a thing that people just do to escape the despair of their waking life.

Supply is perpetually outpaced by the demand to full the emptiness and void of their lives.

Almost forgot. Something something self hate something *MoonBeam Mode Deactivated*

igor_kavinski · May 22, 2025

GodisanAtheist said:
When people have no motivation to scrouge and save their money to buy a house, get married, have kids etc because these things seem wildly out of reach they will live at home, goon, and splurge their excess of disposable income on transient pleasures like gaming etc which used to be sort of a niche thing but now its very commonly a thing that people just do to escape the despair of their waking life.

True in my case.

Mopetar · May 22, 2025

GodisanAtheist said:
When people have no motivation to scrouge and save their money to buy a house, get married, have kids etc because these things seem wildly out of reach they will live at home, goon, and splurge their excess of disposable income on transient pleasures like gaming etc which used to be sort of a niche thing but now its very commonly a thing that people just do to escape the despair of their waking life.

It's always been that way, but people just bought cars, boats, or other things instead. People always forget how stressed out they were in the past or neglect considering that they were younger and didn't realize they needed to be a bit less carefree with life.

Gaming is a relatively inexpensive hobby all things considered. $40 on Steam will get me far more value for time than it will at a bar. Even if all you have is a cheap PC with integrated graphics, you can still run plenty of emulators and play a lifetime's worth of amazing games.

I think we actually have the opposite problem. There's such a plethora of cheap entertainment with immediate gratification that it completely distracts young people from aiming towards anything that has a higher up front investment and a long term payoff. Your great-grandfather probably wouldn't have married either if he had unlimited and free pornography at his fingertips. Future generations will have less trouble with it because the people today that do aren't passing on their genes. The same was true in the past as well, just for a different set of problems that people today don't appreciate or care about.

DAPUNISHER · May 22, 2025

It is hard to be mad at AMD for learning to play the game. We used to rant about the initial pricing from them and their partners, because they would lower prices a few months later anyways. Now they bait and switch with the best of them.

It will be interesting to see what prices the market will bare for the 9060 XTs.

DAPUNISHER · May 22, 2025

@Mopetar

We are like minded on this. I have replied often about how thrifty PC gaming is compared to hobbies my friends have. Boats, cars, motorcycles, guns, knives, etc.

And as you pointed out, no one has to spend $1000s to play games and have a great time. @blckgrffn is right, they know enthusiast will pay more, so here we are.

blckgrffn · May 22, 2025

Well this thread got real dark. really real. Remind me to not ask serious questions in my escapism threads.

@DAPUNISHER and yet adults with headsets playing games is somehow some adolescent activity we are supposed to "out grow" so we can go pursue some "real" hobbies.

Sorry, but this is an easy way for me to stay connected with friends and have fun with my kids. I choose to be present at home and steal away with them into worlds fantastic when I can. And yeah, even with moderate investment, it remains a very thrifty hobby, for sure.

Guess who had a valve spring break in his stupid car? This guy. $3,300. I was a dropped valve away from a catastrophic engine failure and basically a totaled investment. A completely different realm of costs.

Mopetar · May 22, 2025

Any of the "adult" hobbies are just stuff the previous generations did as kids before new generation hobbies existed. Do what you want with your own money regardless of what other people think. Be glad that you have an enjoyable hobby to occupy your time so that you don't have to spend it concerned over what other people are doing with theirs.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

- C. S. Lewis

Josh128 · May 22, 2025

Mopetar said:
It's always been that way, but people just bought cars, boats, or other things instead. People always forget how stressed out they were in the past or neglect considering that they were younger and didn't realize they needed to be a bit less carefree with life.

Gaming is a relatively inexpensive hobby all things considered. $40 on Steam will get me far more value for time than it will at a bar. Even if all you have is a cheap PC with integrated graphics, you can still run plenty of emulators and play a lifetime's worth of amazing games.

I think we actually have the opposite problem. There's such a plethora of cheap entertainment with immediate gratification that it completely distracts young people from aiming towards anything that has a higher up front investment and a long term payoff. Your great-grandfather probably wouldn't have married either if he had unlimited and free pornography at his fingertips. Future generations will have less trouble with it because the people today that do aren't passing on their genes. The same was true in the past as well, just for a different set of problems that people today don't appreciate or care about.

It hasnt always been that way. Thats only a very recent development when looking at the history of humanity. In the past, most of the non-ruling class people had to toil and work from dawn till dusk just to survive. Widows with young children were extremely vulnerable and usually had to remarry for support or literally didnt make it if there was no other family to lean on. There was nothing even resembling the social safety net that people take for granted today. There wasnt much time for leisure, nor did living alone, without a family or a partner, make for an easy life.

Advancements like electrical power, running water, air conditioning, and the automobile were gigantic steps forward that didnt exist anywhere on the planet just 200 years ago. Worldwide telephone and television services and guaranteed government social safety nets brought things another huge step forward. The advent of the internet, personal computers, and finally 24/7 connected smartphones finished things off.

Prevalence of pornography doesnt explain the apathy of the modern youth, nor is pornography in any way, shape or form a substitute for a marital relationship. Statistically, women indulge in pornography far less than men, yet an almost equivalent number of young women are just as disenchanted and apathetic as young men seem to be. Its not just pornography per se, (though that is a gigantic problem), its brain rot from overstimulation of all kinds. Kids can literally waste hours of a day just scrolling through tik-tok or Xitter, becoming more introverted and or feeling inadequate compared to what they see and read online.

It really is a serious problem.

Mopetar · May 22, 2025

The Real Deep Noggin Activation 4 thread is the best.

Thunder 57 · May 22, 2025

I think we've gone a bit off topic and some of the last few posts would be better off in P&N. Just my humble opinion.

madtronik · May 22, 2025

SolidQ said:
What is f**ing price for EMEA and 9060XT

ACER Nitro Intel Arc Et AMD RX 9060 XT OC • Pause Hardware

Acer a dévoilé la nouvelle Acer Nitro Intel Arc séries A et B, aux côtés de la puissante Acer Nitro Radeon RX 9060 XT OC.

pausehardware.com

Lol, for that kind of price instead of a 9060XT right now I can get a 9070 non XT.

GaiaHunter · May 22, 2025

Why are GPUs so expensive?
Because the consumers decided it was better to pay 20%+ more for the privilege of crippling their performance in exchange for some reflections.
A technology so crippling that requires AI machines and so a GPU became an AI machine - upscale technology, frame generation, etc, all exist to counter act the heavy performance hit of RT.

jpiniero · May 22, 2025

GaiaHunter said:
Why are GPUs so expensive?

It's because of inflation and Moore's Law is Dead.

gdansk · May 22, 2025

jpiniero said:
It's because of inflation and Moore's Law is Dead.

CPUs remain affordable and profitable despite inflation and MLID. Of course, GPUs matter more to a certain demographic discussed above.

The current pricing conflagration is due almost entirely to other factors than increased manufacturing costs. You can tell because the MSRPs are low.

Both AMD and Nvidia cut production late last year. The channel was devoid of graphics cards by January. The pent up demand allowed retailers and board makers to jack up prices. And now that supply is resuming prices are usually slower to fall than to rise. Especially since some desperate people will buy at each step of the descent to MSRP (well, we might not reach MSRP but that would be due to new random and unpredictable consumer taxes by the administration).

The only company making a product cheap enough and big enough for transistor cost to be a factor is Intel and they "solved" that problem by making only a tiny amount.

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