Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
408
788
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You need medication.
'premium gaming handheld' market doesn't exist outside of your fetishistic wet dreams.

Like even $400 is a very steep price for a handheld, and you want kilobuck+ devices for some reason?

High end x86 handhelds above $400 sold millions of units (Deck's most popular model is always the more expensive one), but a fugly gaming windows tablet is somehow more justified?
 
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adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
5,741
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High end x86 handhelds above $400 sold millions of units (Deck's most popular model is always the more expensive one)
That's tiny, cumulative shipments are a mere fraction of Switch OLED, and that one is the least popular SKU by a country mile.
but a fugly gaming windows tablet is somehow more justified?
YES.
80W.h internal battery and 30W operation would provide over 2h autonomy.
That would make it weigh like a kilo+.
Strix Halo on 30W does wonders.
Waste of silicon.
It's an 60-80W part and was designed as such.
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
529
686
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but realistically: where are 'handhelds' used without ability to put device on a stand/table/rock/whatever?

just in-transit really. trains airplanes buses subway

airplane, use the tray
trains, use the tray or table

so the only real usage for handhelds are buses and subways!
all this fuss for that.........................


(legacy handhelds like gameboy color, GBA, PSP etc are very diffferent - they were radically different consoles with different games, completely different feeling and experience. handhelds nowadays are just portable PCs... switch 2 is not too different, it's sticking to a very outdated formula and everyone's tired of super mario 36 and donkey kong 14 and zelda 18, all its other games are PC/ps5 ports)
 
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misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
718
863
136
Things take time to build, test, fix software bugs and get enough parts to the public. Only Asus and HP delivered something, no one else did. Even though announced quite awhile ago, no other MB or miniPC maker will release faster than Q3
 
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StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,470
10,037
136
[Strix Halo]
we're getting like 5 design wins for those 8 people who somehow need high performance edge clients without having to take them on the go.
I am not so sure if it's 8, 9, or perhaps a much higher number of folks who have been waiting for this.
High performance expensive NUCs don't move any meaningful volume.

NUCs are where good ideas go to die out of unsuccessful B2B marketing, like Intel's GT3e and later Vega M from 12 years ago.
Times have changed. There are uses for large-memory GPGPU computing with some money behind, and possibly volume.
 

Josh128

Senior member
Oct 14, 2022
873
1,358
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Strix Halo is the single most impressive x86 chip(s) made in the last decade. Phoronix's review shows it all. Only problem with their review is that they dont compare to an Ultra 285H Intel. But it SMASHES every mobile chip its compared to and even wins a lot of the perf/watt comparisons against much weaker chips. Its an impressive piece of engineering and I hope AMD continues to run with it for the next gen.
 

fastandfurious6

Senior member
Jun 1, 2024
529
686
96
of course AMD will continue halo line, medusa halo incoming

but why did intel even make 285H when they were preparing 285HX anyway? very different chips

285H is complete flop, 285HX is kinda head-to-head with Halo/9955HX at least on scores
 

Joe NYC

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2021
3,056
4,456
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Lest we forget, Strix Halo is requiring a completely new motherboard platform. They can't just drop it into an existing Strix Point/Hawk Point/Phoenix board and use a repainted case. That takes both time and a willingness to take risks. In addition, we don't know of any exclusivity agreements for specific market segments that might exist.

To ease adoption, AMD should have included Memory On Package.

Instead of lowering the bar for ease of adoption (for OEM), AMD raised the bar, making it harder for OEMs to adopt it.

Also, AMD lowered the memory performance from 8533 to 8000.

To complete the own goal hattrick, AMD closed the road to faster memory speeds and bigger memory sizes (for AI markets).
 

Joe NYC

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2021
3,056
4,456
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OEMs hate Memory on Package though. Lunar Lake was just a BK special since he was obsessed with Apple. You won't see that again in x86.

AMD has a problem of OEMs not adopting AMD CPUs, or doing only as an afterthought after they spend all their energy and resources on Intel stuff.

So, this is a problem unique to AMD, and you would think AMD would go out of its way to address it. And AMD is addressing it (partially) by keeping same(ish) package (pinout) across generations. Also, by not pushing the envelope on performance, leaving performance on the table.

As a concept, Apple and Lunar Lake proved that the concept is fine, and the reason OEMs don't like it is because OEM like to rape customers on cost of memory upgrades.

But Apple has proven that you can have MoP and still rape the customers on memory upgrades...
 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
1,457
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I don't think Nvidia would ever sell at a loss. Especially when they pretty much own the market.
First, the assumption is they have to sell at a loss, and the second is that they wouldn't be willing to do so, when doing that would result in competition getting killed, which is a long-term win.

@ToTTenTranz Not very surprised. Way better attempt, but the same rule applies. They have to keep trying.

@LightningZ71 In addition to that dGPUs can be on a separate board easing design and reducing TTM, while also having flexibility in choosing platforms.

The wrong idea people refuse to give up is that it has to be all-or-nothing. It has to be dGPU-or-nothing, when they can all coexist, serving multitudes of different customers.
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,470
10,037
136
AMD has a problem of OEMs not adopting AMD CPUs, or doing only as an afterthought after they spend all their energy and resources on Intel stuff.
Isn't part of the picture that Intel used to give a lot of design support? (Besides other 'incentives' which a market leader was able to apply.)

the reason OEMs don't like [memory on package] is because OEM like to rape customers on cost of memory upgrades.
In addition they prefer to buy memory from memory makers, rather than from a middleman. Plus more control over inventory I guess.
 

LightningZ71

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2017
2,210
2,694
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First, the assumption is they have to sell at a loss, and the second is that they wouldn't be willing to do so, when doing that would result in competition getting killed, which is a long-term win.

@ToTTenTranz Not very surprised. Way better attempt, but the same rule applies. They have to keep trying.

@LightningZ71 In addition to that dGPUs can be on a separate board easing design and reducing TTM, while also having flexibility in choosing platforms.

The wrong idea people refuse to give up is that it has to be all-or-nothing. It has to be dGPU-or-nothing, when they can all coexist, serving multitudes of different customers.
MCM modules are a DISTANT afterthought in the market. Daughter board dGPUs might as well not exist for most of the market. They are almost always tightly coupled with the CPU on the main board for all sorts of reasons.
 

ToTTenTranz

Senior member
Feb 4, 2021
408
788
136
That's tiny, cumulative shipments are a mere fraction of Switch OLED, and that one is the least popular SKU by a country mile.
Still orders of magnitude over a fugly tablet going for $2K.


That would make it weigh like a kilo+.
This again...

The ROG Ally X has a 80W.h battery, cooling engineered for 30W TDP and weighs 678g.
The ROG Ally has a 40W.h battery and weighs 608g. Chinese phone makers are getting 28W.h batteries inside 200g phones.

Battery capacity under 100Wh for laptops and gaming handhelds is mostly a decision based on cost, not weight or volume.



of course AMD will continue halo line, medusa halo incoming
You know what else was incoming until it wasn't? Navi 4C.
If Strix Halo fails to move the needle in getting high end design wins for AMD, Medusa Halo will be cancelled.
 
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