Opinion: Jordan Peterson has always been a crank

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,113
14,593
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JP was mentioned in another thread and I didn't want to de-rail that thread hence I created this one.

In that thread someone suggested that he produced insightful content in 2017, so I did a bit of browsing around and finally came to the conclusion that he's always been a bit of a nut.

I scan-read an article by The Guardian then decided that the best thing to do was to go straight to the source:
I sorted the videos by oldest first, and watched the first which mercifully is only 13 minutes long:

I didn't get far into it to be honest. The warning signs were "I'm an ex-atheist", "God created man and woman so everything divides into masculine and feminine and one needs the other to make a whole", "the patriarchy isn't a thing", "modern people don't think like this", and "women make men self-conscious" then I more or less gave up there. It comes across as a long ramble along the lines of "I found God, now I'm going to mash everything else I can think of into that belief", rather like the fear/love scale in the film 'Donnie Darko'.

More warning signs IMO are vague topic titles and immensely long video clips like this gem here:
The Guardian summarised this clip as:
The Guardian said:
Peterson was troubled by two developments: a federal amendment to add gender identity and expression to the Canadian Human Rights Act; and his university’s plans for mandatory anti-bias training. Starting from there, he railed against Marxism, human rights organisations, HR departments and “an underground apparatus of radical left political motivations” forcing gender-neutral pronouns on him.
To which my response is "diddums", and you know when someone is full of shit when they start unleashing terms like "the radical left".

JP's style very much reminds me of other cranks I've seen on the Internet. One in particular was on a newsgroup or forum over twenty years ago and their signature said something like "Who is I?" followed by some apparently-random characters like "** QO RP I GB ZX** " as if inviting other users to explore the deep inner meaning to their pseudointellectual bullshit.

I'm open to a persuasive argument but one thing I refuse to do is to watch a ~hour long YT clip with only vague justification for why I should potentially waste my time with it. The only time I'll watch hour-long video clips when the topic very much interests me. By all means quote a bit, or cite a few minutes of a clip.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,988
32,244
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Well, he's been around a lot longer than that. I assume he started his academy since he couldn't teach at a normal institution anymore, and that was a result of his deranged views on gender leading to misinterpreting the ramifications of a law regarding it. I'm sure he is a smart man and knows a lot of shit, but unfortunately that doesn't preclude people from making mistakes and refusing to learn from them.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,074
18,510
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Bigots have ALWAYS labeled their opposition as "marxist" and communist."

All the way back to MLK.

People want you to watch entire videos because of the power of persuasion among cults of personality. Take out the talking points and fact check it and the entire mountain of BS falls apart.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,585
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The Youtube show Some More News did a short video (don't check the timestamp) about Jordan Peterson a couple years ago. It's worth a watch.
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
61,422
16,978
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I think this quote from a review of his self-help book puts it well, and explains why one of our members is so enamored of him.
"If you go for Christian mythology, narrow-minded individualism, obscure metaphysics, and existentialist angst, then Jordan Peterson is the philosopher for you. But if you prefer evidence and reason, look elsewhere."
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,757
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Thanks mikeymike! I've reconnected with an old friend, very smart, very politically savvy, who nevertheless went at least part way down the Jordan Peterson rabbit hole. JFC!

My fave from your OP was, "women make men self-conscious"
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,800
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JP may actually be smart for all i know, but i do know he can’t articulate his thoughts well for people not in his field of study. He comes across as a wannabe intellectual blowhard who can’t make a point.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,247
6,635
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I was told by other people that Jordan Peterson is a nut job so I won't waste a second of my time on him. And I can easily justify that decision because you all know I'm an imbecile.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,006
3,326
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I was told by other people that Jordan Peterson is a nut job so I won't waste a second of my time on him. And I can easily justify that decision because you all know I'm an imbecile.

I think that is being nice. I would have much harsher words for that person
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,247
6,635
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I think that is being nice. I would have much harsher words for that person
Well I going to have to wait to hear what sort of harsh words are in vogue before I go out on as limb and invent any on my own. So for the time being I'm sticking to nut job. It's seems to be approved.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I was told by other people that Jordan Peterson is a nut job so I won't waste a second of my time on him. And I can easily justify that decision because you all know I'm an imbecile.
He was better before he went to Russia seeking treatment for his wife's life threatening health issue.

Now he is clearly bent. Either he got brainwashed by FSB or he is so indebted to the medical team there that he thinks it's his duty to defend Russian atrocities.

 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,757
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For people that don't know this cvnt
Thanks, but I just couldn't listen to this guy for more than 10 minutes , , , and I tried!

I have a long-time friend who's intelligent and very well informed who nevertheless likes this putz, primarily for his pro-bro (for want of a better term) stuff. To his credit, he backs off a bit when I challenge him, but still . . .

The fact that he's been married 3 times and each wife has left him due to his alcoholism just may have something to do with his intellectual identification with this asshole.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,974
6,549
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JP was mentioned in another thread and I didn't want to de-rail that thread hence I created this one.

In that thread someone suggested that he produced insightful content in 2017, so I did a bit of browsing around and finally came to the conclusion that he's always been a bit of a nut.

I'm not going to watch any of his content, since I long ago blocked his channel.

But yes, he's always been an obnoxious patriarchal bigot and blowhard. I saw him in his very early days before anyone in the MAGA or Manosphere ever heard of him.

I was living in Ontario in the late 90's- through the mid 00's. I watched TV Ontario, local public broadcaster that had current affairs show that covered topics in greater depths.

For some reason, they often had JP as a guest psychologist on their panel. He always came off as a supremely arrogant, self aggrandizing blowhard.

I remember one instance he claimed Atheist are always unhappy, and that was part of his case for being religious. Which I found hilarious, because he always projected a deeply morose, mean spirited nature on every panel. Yeah, I want to be religious to be "happy" like him.

Anyway, I instantly disliked him before anyone ever heard of him. He's always been an ass. He's just learned to turn it into a grift.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,141
19,847
146
Ugh, even the people talking to him are making it more complex than it really is.

First claim: “atheists reject god, but they dont know what theyre rejecting”

Amswer: their either rejecting a god or a religion.

1. God has yet to be proven, so youre rejecting the lack of evidence

2. Rejecting religion: religion is man made and rejecting this is rejection of a organized belief system.

Thats it.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,237
31,102
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JP has a major streak of dishonesty. He commented several times that Trump is NOT a psychopath.
In a 2022 interview on Piers Morgan Uncensored, Peterson stated, "I don't think that he's a psychopath because he's been successful in repeated enterprises over long periods of time, and he has a variety of people who remain intensely loyal to him." He acknowledged that Trump exhibits traits such as high extroversion and disagreeableness, which are sometimes associated with psychopathy, but emphasized that Trump also demonstrates conscientiousness and a strong work ethic, which counterbalance those traits.

Peterson further elaborated on this perspective in his podcast episode titled "Is Trump Dangerous: A Psychological Analysis," where he described Trump as an "indisputably extroverted" individual with a complex personality. He noted that while Trump's assertiveness and low politeness might raise concerns about narcissism, his genuine care for others and strong work ethic present a more nuanced picture.

These comments emphasize his strong suit. He comes up with a word salad designed to convince people in something even he doesn't believe.

Here are the traits of a psychopath. You can conclude. IMO Trump meets all 20. Where do you disagree?

1. Superficial Charm & Charisma

2. Unnecessary Cruelty or a Mean Streak

3. Lies, Exaggerations, & Dishonesty

4. Lack of Accountability & Playing the Blame Game

5. Need for Power, Control, & Dominance

6. Sadistic Enjoyment of Pain & Suffering

7. Boredom & Thrill-Seeking Behaviors

8. Disregard for Rules, Laws, & Norms

9. Unaffected & Unafraid of Consequences

10. Detached, Cold, & Callous Demeanor

11. A History of Childhood Behavior Problems

12. A Trail of Short, Broken Relationships

13. Exploitation of Others for Personal Gain

14. Calculated & Strategic Planning

15. A Lack of Conscience

16. Abnormal Ways of Thinking

17. Poor Attention Span & Loss of Interest

18. Violent Tendencies, Abuse, or Aggression

19. Hostile & Oppositional by Nature

20. Masters of Deception

There is a score for this checklist
The checklist contains 20 items, each scored on a 3-point scale:
  • 0 = Does not apply
  • 1 = Applies somewhat
  • 2 = Definitely applies

Scores range from 0 to 40, with a typical cutoff for psychopathy being:

  • 30 or above in the U.S.
  • 25–30 in some other countries or research settings

I score Trump a 52 and I skipped #11
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,113
14,593
136
Ugh, even the people talking to him are making it more complex than it really is.

First claim: “atheists reject god, but they dont know what theyre rejecting”

Amswer: their either rejecting a god or a religion.

1. God has yet to be proven, so youre rejecting the lack of evidence

2. Rejecting religion: religion is man made and rejecting this is rejection of a organized belief system.

Thats it.

The problem is that it's two arguments at cross-purposes: Faith versus evidence-based practice.

Rewinding to what Heartbreaker mentioned that JP says that atheists aren't happy, despite the fact that it's yet another assertion that JP likely pulled out of his ass, let's argue the point as if it's true. I would argue that theists are at least as unhappy hence they decided that God is real along with the belief that he's a kind, all-wise, all-knowing God who has their back. It comes down to that notion that some people would prefer to embrace a comfortable lie rather than the uncomfortable truth: In this case, there is no God. Therefore, theists are not altogether happy because they know at heart that their comfort is a lie, and atheists are unhappy because the world is as fucked up as it is and there's no morality-based afterlife that dishes out what people supposedly deserve.

Douglas Adams also stated that many solutions were proposed to the unhappiness problem, but those solutions tended to revolve around small green pieces of paper (which was odd because the small green pieces of paper weren't unhappy)...
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
61,422
16,978
136
The problem is that it's two arguments at cross-purposes: Faith versus evidence-based practice.

Rewinding to what Heartbreaker mentioned that JP says that atheists aren't happy, despite the fact that it's yet another assertion that JP likely pulled out of his ass, let's argue the point as if it's true. I would argue that theists are at least as unhappy hence they decided that God is real along with the belief that he's a kind, all-wise, all-knowing God who has their back. It comes down to that notion that some people would prefer to embrace a comfortable lie rather than the uncomfortable truth: In this case, there is no God. Therefore, theists are not altogether happy because they know at heart that their comfort is a lie, and atheists are unhappy because the world is as fucked up as it is and there's no morality-based afterlife that dishes out what people supposedly deserve.

Douglas Adams also stated that many solutions were proposed to the unhappiness problem, but those solutions tended to revolve around small green pieces of paper (which was odd because the small green pieces of paper weren't unhappy)...
Also this fun bit regarding the anthropic principle.

“This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.”
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,247
6,635
126
Ugh, even the people talking to him are making it more complex than it really is.

First claim: “atheists reject god, but they dont know what theyre rejecting”

Amswer: their either rejecting a god or a religion.

1. God has yet to be proven, so youre rejecting the lack of evidence

2. Rejecting religion: religion is man made and rejecting this is rejection of a organized belief system.

Thats it.
Is that really it. I don't think so but if I were to oppose your thesis here would I not wind up being accused of supporting the beliefs of a Nazi? I mean what is really important in life is to fend off any threat to whatever sacred cows feed and nurture one's ego, right. I mean as a liberal I just go psychotic when some fucking Nazi opens his mouth. What if he or she made a point that was counter to what I believe? I would just die. What if the whole world started listening to that shit? I would be all alone with my scared opinion. Oh me oh my. Somebody shoot the fucker.

That's why I would never be so stupid to suggest that for whatever reasons Peterson says what you quoted, and I am not really interested enough to find out what he was saying, I know I disagree with your view that That's it.

I see God as a word used for the vivification of a psychological state of transcendence about which most people know almost nothing, a state that compared to normal consciousness is analogous to the difference between heaven and hell and furthermore about which words are almost useless in describing and totally useless in bringing about the experience itself. I see religions as the dead husks of complex psychological systems operated with a public and a private face, that owing to the absence of an enlightened teacher have fallen into disrepair.

The result is that there are no gods as you imagine them to be and religions are a joke. However I edo believe there are enlightened beings and the truth is there for those who need it.

Imagine you are a drug addict addicted to getting your ego fix. Every thought, every intention the addict experiences if you look sincerely will lead him or her right to a fix and in your case disbelief. Who could possible believe in the God you don't believe exists. It was you that made it easy to doubt. In our example here, God is a cure for addiction and requires the addict to die to rationalizations.

An addict is a person who hates him or herself to the extent they do feel they deserve to heal while writhing around in victim mentality.

The last thing miserable people what to know is that none of it is necessary. God is another word for saying yes to love as all there is. Self hate is just spitting on that.
 
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