I wonder why Peterson isnt mentioned in the article. Didn’t the trump admin view him as a scientist to weigh in? I mean, i know hes just an evolutionary biologist (if we take him at his word), but we shouldnt be of a herd mentality
Now the so called wise men are actually arguing with the EPA.
EPA says power plant carbon emissions aren't dangerous. We asked 30 scientists: Here's what they say
The Trump administration’s Environmental Protection Agency Wednesday proposed a new ruling that heat-trapping carbon gas “emissions from fossil fuel-fired power plants do not contribute significantly to dangerous air pollution.″ The Associated Press asked 30 different scientists, experts in climate,apnews.com
I said this very thing some time back in our conversation, that I am not interested in Peterson, that I am neither trying to support or deny his viewpoints because he is not a part of this conversation and I have nothing therefore that could add to our individual understanding. I post in this forum and am only interested in the opinions of others here and can only share my reactions to them. And as gist for that mill Peterson is a gold mine. I find the reactions to him both here and on the internet fascinating and especially how those reactions have crystalized into something like a mass Trump Derangement Syndrome Clique. I find that and similar psychological aspects of herd mentality fascinating and fundamentally connected to the mass psychosis I see. You could maybe call it save the world disease. Jordan Peterson spells mass climate disaster that if not defeated will mean the end of the world. Peterson is another out there engaged in the same struggle. He sees the danger of this kind of thinking, that the importance people attach to their thinking, what I would describe as self-righteous egotism he has identified in a more limited collective, the authoritarian radical left, which for me is a small subset but which on this particular forum, inhabited as it is by a preponderance of just such liberals. I find it, therefore, totally predictable that my opinions on the phenomenon generally would affect most frequently a majority of those posting here. That is chance in operation, a manifestation of self hate that is universal, an intractable problem that's a catch 22 for the reason it's the last thing anybody will see. That does not mean that there are those who transcend that condition either knowing what the problem is or transcending it via mystical experience of the existence of an altered state of awareness. All this, of course, my opinion.Well he's not here to be interrogated. And then there's the question of whether he would lie or tell the truth if he were. So we really do have your opinion and my opinion and everyone else's opinion, which some might argue is the nature of a forum.
How could it be otherwise.Your retelling of what I argued is your retelling.
I am not sure what you intend here. You seem to be referring back to some exchange we had. Could you give me the specifics?What did I say when I simply insisted I was right, and what was the context surrounding that?
Think of that as an idiomatic expression serving as a rhetorical flourish:You have extended every courtesy to accommodate and answer my objections? Are you certain of that?
You guessed very very right. May I also add that you could also be more charitable as both are foundational attitudes, in my opinion, for a healthy mental life. Did you notice that when I said I have extended you every courtesy, I added, THAT I CAN THINK OF. Doesn't that suggest there could in fact be there are mountains of courtesy I failed to extend, that I understood the broad sweeping implications of the idiomatic expression and was seeking to limit them. Just saying. I am very aware that people leave their sore toes in the aisle hoping someone will step on them, or grab arrows out of the air and plunge them into their own hearts. Self hate is the origin of victim mentality and that is a disease that is everywhere. See the truth of that as you will.Nobody on this forum has paid more attention to me than you? Wow. I guess I should be grateful to you.
I am not the droid you are looking for. But suppose I were. Can the Devil quote scripture? I'm telling you that self hate is inculcated and can be seen as such in all kind of ways from psychoanalysis to believing that in the eyes of the Supreme Being you have been forgiven. To experience such a realization, to counter your hate of yourself it's a really good idea to practice grattitude and charity as the one who most needs it is yourself. If you can really get real with it will be you who is like God.Speaking of posts you never responded to, what sort of god are you again?
1. I said a person knows when they are lying consciously and not when they do so unconsciously.I accept your first sentence. Your second sentence is grammatically incoherent. You are projecting offense on me. How did I express my alleged offense?
You make yourself too self important. I see nothing in anybody I didn't first see in myself. We are all the same. The bad news is apparently new to you but I have seen it for a very long time. I reqlly tried very hard to prove that my belief in the good was the real thing, but all hope collapsed and I experienced a strange emptiness, a vaccum so empty that the Big Bang happened again.The question is in your previous quote of mine. It's right there, quoted in your post. If the shoe was on the other foot I wouldn't pretend to know everything about your history, what you have gone through, what you are capable of knowing or understanding, why you believe the things that you do, whether you are conscious or unconscious when you are engaging with me, how you have questioned yourself. I wouldn't claim to know all of these things as a matter of fact, unlike you.
No I didn't read more than a few lines of it, enough to be trigger alerted that what I was reading was more evidence of science being eliminated from a critical government agency so that Trump's fossil fuel oligarchs can continue to destroy life on earth for the sake of a few more dollars they already have more of than enough of to ever be able to spend. The EPA is now apparently being controlled by the brain dead for whom I must suppress the wish the condition quickly spreads. Please do not stop at the brain. They are the most profound insult to us liberal science type rationalists everywhere. That's a type I intimately understand, naturally without being able to scientifically prove it. Some truth is instinctive. I have a Mulla story about that.This is a nice example of the sort of disingenuousness Peterson employs. Did you even read the article?
You see and experience this because it is all you ever see. It's all you can see.I said this very thing some time back in our conversation, that I am not interested in Peterson, that I am neither trying to support or deny his viewpoints because he is not a part of this conversation and I have nothing therefore that could add to our individual understanding. I post in this forum and am only interested in the opinions of others here and can only share my reactions to them. And as gist for that mill Peterson is a gold mine. I find the reactions to him both here and on the internet fascinating and especially how those reactions have crystalized into something like a mass Trump Derangement Syndrome Clique. I find that and similar psychological aspects of herd mentality fascinating and fundamentally connected to the mass psychosis I see. You could maybe call it save the world disease. Jordan Peterson spells mass climate disaster that if not defeated will mean the end of the world. Peterson is another out there engaged in the same struggle. He sees the danger of this kind of thinking, that the importance people attach to their thinking, what I would describe as self-righteous egotism he has identified in a more limited collective, the authoritarian radical left, which for me is a small subset but which on this particular forum, inhabited as it is by a preponderance of just such liberals. I find it, therefore, totally predictable that my opinions on the phenomenon generally would affect most frequently a majority of those posting here. That is chance in operation, a manifestation of self hate that is universal, an intractable problem that's a catch 22 for the reason it's the last thing anybody will see. That does not mean that there are those who transcend that condition either knowing what the problem is or transcending it via mystical experience of the existence of an altered state of awareness. All this, of course, my opinion.
You said I simply insisted I was right. I assumed you were referring to something specific I said. Wondered what that was.I am not sure what you intend here. You seem to be referring back to some exchange we had. Could you give me the specifics?
You make yourself too self-important. You believe you are casting pearls before swine. You are only relevant to my life right now because it's vaguely interesting to me to see how you operate. So I press the buttons and watch what happens. There's almost no variation in the major themes, but there have been little subtleties. This is my charity for you.You guessed very very right. May I also add that you could also be more charitable as both are foundational attitudes, in my opinion, for a healthy mental life. Did you notice that when I said I have extended you every courtesy, I added, THAT I CAN THINK OF. Doesn't that suggest there could in fact be there are mountains of courtesy I failed to extend, that I understood the broad sweeping implications of the idiomatic expression and was seeking to limit them. Just saying. I am very aware that people leave their sore toes in the aisle hoping someone will step on them, or grab arrows out of the air and plunge them into their own hearts. Self hate is the origin of victim mentality and that is a disease that is everywhere. See the truth of that as you will.
I see. I guess I don't view the distinction as particularly important, primarily because I'm not convinced it is possible too lie unconsciously. A lie requires intent. Intent is a function of consciousness.In any event. I didn't take offense.1. I said a person knows when they are lying consciously and not when they do so unconsciously.
2. That means and I said it means that I don't know when I am unconsciously lying. but I have known that forever. I told you how dangerous that is for a truth seeker and you proceeded to take offense.
I was called a liar by a poster here. I said that only I would know if I were lying or not, whether I was telling the truth as I see it or lying about what that poster was referring to that I said. I know if I am consciously lying and I was being accused of that by somebody who can't know that. It would have been just fine if he had accused me of lying and not being aware of it. You may accuse me of unconscious lying and you may accuse me of it. What you can't do is accuse me of conscious lying and I do not do that to others. It is small minded, petty, and springs from an attempt to belittle others out of a desire to make them feel as bad as they do about themselves. It's whaqt makes the world hell for children.
You accused me of making an exception for myself that I am fine denying I lie but accuse others of it. Your critique was however, invalidated by your making no distinction between one kind of lie and another.
Hilarious. Because I don't assume that my experiences give me complete knowledge of you, that makes me self-important.You make yourself too self important. I see nothing in anybody I didn't first see in myself. We are all the same. The bad news is apparently new to you but I have seen it for a very long time. I reqlly tried very hard to prove that my belief in the good was the real thing, but all hope collapsed and I experienced a strange emptiness, a vaccum so empty that the Big Bang happened again.
Video seems to be geoblocked. I get the message that the uploadeder has not made it available in my country (US). What is it so I can see if I can find another version?Cant fcking get the t=39 on mobile
fixed ... just a funny.Video seems to be geoblocked. I get the message that the uploadeder has not made it available in my country (US). What is it so I can see if I can find another version?
Or its all you can imagine I can see, I see you as having a tendency to restrict the spectrum of possibilities you are willing to consider to a conservatively safe range. If you can't see in the dark why would you ever suspect someone else might be able to.You see and experience this because it is all you ever see. It's all you can see.
Do you go around saying things you think are wrong? I have suggested you 'know" things. as in imagine you know things I don't know at all. That raises a lot of questions for me. I most likely was referring to something like this.You said I simply insisted I was right. I assumed you were referring to something specific I said. Wondered what that was.
The actual situation is something I told you before. I don't give a fig that you think this because I see quite beyond it. As I said, having lost so much belief in the bullshit I once believed in that made me a real somebody worthy of worldly respect, as I then thought, I can't pretend to any self importance these days. I am a nobody. I only know one thing but that knowing has implications you have not experienced, that I know everything already. So in one sense I am so wise that my importance can never be know by the likes of minds like yours not yet relieved of a sense of self importance and so for whom such self importance is therefor everything.You make yourself too self-important.
I believe that I used that expression to trigger exactly what it did, defensiveness as an incapacity to see facts as they are. It is you who lives in a value based world where pearls represent self respect and pigs represent the truth you feel about yourself. I could have said a simple offering of my humble opinion. I as simply not constrained by social judgments of what is polite and what is rude.You believe you are casting pearls before swine.
This is what you believe and so it is what you see. I don't have such beliefs. I know exactly who you are because you do.You are only relevant to my life right now because it's vaguely interesting to me to see how you operate. So I press the buttons and watch what happens. There's almost no variation in the major themes, but there have been little subtleties. This is my charity for you.Hilarious. Because I don't assume that my experiences give me complete knowledge of you, that makes me self-important.
Out of the mouths of babes........... This is a profoundly important statement you happen to call a guess. The truth of it is why we can never get to first base. Your ignorance of basic facts is so deep we can't establish and share a scientific basis for the realities we perceive. You are too far out to lunch. Don't worry about it. It can be fixed. We can start here:I see. I guess I don't view the distinction as particularly important, primarily because I'm not convinced it is possible too lie unconsciously. A lie requires intent. Intent is a function of consciousness. In any event. I didn't take offense.
Perhaps you will want to rethink that opinion. I only know one thing about you. We are the same with one of us knowing it and the other not.Hilarious. Because I don't assume that my experiences give me complete knowledge of you, that makes me self-important.
It is you who restricts your spectrum to your narrow, black and white viewpoint of humanity. You see you everywhere, and it's the large majority of what you talk about on this forum.Or its all you can imagine I can see, I see you as having a tendency to restrict the spectrum of possibilities you are willing to consider to a conservatively safe range. If you can't see in the dark why would you ever suspect someone else might be able to.
So because I do what you do and give my opinion you take that as 'simply insisting I am right'? You already stated you don't have any interest in the merits of my arguments, so I suppose that tracks. For the rest of your quote, see my response above.Do you go around saying things you think are wrong? I have suggested you 'know" things. as in imagine you know things I don't know at all. That raises a lot of questions for me. I most likely was referring to something like this.
I suspect you do not know what I mean by not knowing things you know. I also suspect I won't be able to get this point across because you are missing the key experience one can have that will make it obvious:
I think that when people sat they know things they refer to different kinds of knowing and conflate them. We all know lots of different things, our names, that mass and gravity are related, but we also know other things like opinions about what is good or evil and we can claim to know them to the point of fanaticism. I call such taking for truth what is actually opinion the result of never questioning having questioned the basis of one’s beliefs. I call these unexamined assumptions and they are typical and universally assumed by most people. You seem to be adverse to this idea even though it is another basic truism that people are offended by such information, like you have decided its invisible glue that holds us to the earths have gone on a crusade against gravity.
When I say I don’t know what you know I mean what I just now described, beliefs held inwardly to be true. In my case long ago I realized that people are stuffed full of this kind of bullshit because they had different opinions than I did, all naturally wrong, of course, for that reason, so I set out to prove my beliefs were the real knowing. In this endeavor I came to the ending of thought.
It simply could not be done and I realized that I was as full of bullshit as everybody else. That left me knowing just one thing that I didn’t know anything. When that realization dawns on you, you become a what I could call a real knower because you then know everything there is to know and it is just that one thing. So if you tell me things that you know something, I ask myself how on earth do you know this, the one thing I know is that I don’t know and if you are telling me something is this and not that and you don’t know anything either then I know it’s just bullshit. And if I ask you to prove it the shit hits the fan. You must ask me to tell you the story of the lab pig, the monkey, and the white coated men who got a first hand experience of this.
And again, telling your story about yourself, and how you know my mind. I cannot comprehend your wisdom!The actual situation is something I told you before. I don't give a fig that you think this because I see quite beyond it. As I said, having lost so much belief in the bullshit I once believed in that made me a real somebody worthy of worldly respect, as I then thought, I can't pretend to any self importance these days. I am a nobody. I only know one thing but that knowing has implications you have not experienced, that I know everything already. So in one sense I am so wise that my importance can never be know by the likes of minds like yours not yet relieved of a sense of self importance and so for whom such self importance is therefor everything.
You can't 'trigger me. Nothing you say affects me in the real world, remember what you said? I know you don't respect me. It is admittedly funny to hear you talk about how I should be more grateful and charitable and how you took offense at being accused of consciously lying when you have cast off the constraint of social judgements of what is polite and what is rude. It seems we are not the same at all.I believe that I used that expression to trigger exactly what it did, defensiveness as an incapacity to see facts as they are. It is you who lives in a value based world where pearls represent self respect and pigs represent the truth you feel about yourself. I could have said a simple offering of my humble opinion. I as simply not constrained by social judgments of what is polite and what is rude.
It is a fact. Participating in this forum is partially amusement and partially information gathering for me. You are in the amusement part.This is what you believe and so it is what you see. I don't have such beliefs. I know exactly who you are because you do.
When I read this I again reflected on how you use belittling language with me and practically everyone else here, and coincidentally your link to psychology today reminded me that you've posted several articles from that site earlier in this thread, including one entitled, "People Who Put Others Down: The Psychology Behind Belittling Behavior." I have periodically considered whether you consciously knew what you were doing when you used demeaning and dismissive language with people here. I am now quite certain that you do. You don't actually care what people have to say, as you told me before, and you don't even really view them as complete human beings. You enjoy the feeling of putting people down, telling them how superior you are, while simultaneously saying that you are a nothing, a fool, how you are only here to help people see the truth, as a way of escaping responsibility.Out of the mouths of babes........... This is a profoundly important statement you happen to call a guess. The truth of it is why we can never get to first base. Your ignorance of basic facts is so deep we can't establish and share a scientific basis for the realities we perceive. You are too far out to lunch. Don't worry about it. It can be fixed. We can start here:
It is a good read about unconscious motivations, thank you for posting. It doesn't address my point however. If I say something which is untrue but I believe it to be true or don't know it to be untrue regardless of the reason, how can I be said to be lying? Isn't it rather being mistaken, misguided, or lacking relevant knowledge? A lie is deliberate. I have to know what I'm saying is untrue for it to be a lie. You may well disagree, but then I ought to consider that you have repeatedly lied about me, and I would appreciate it if you would stop. Your false statements about what I know and what I can comprehend are filthy lies, and you should be ashamed of yourself.Reading that link will help you see what I mean. So much of it says what I have been telling you.
Imagine that we were the same, that we all on this forum were the same. What would that look like? We would very quickly be swimming in an ocean purely composed of posts about ourselves and each other. Someone would post about some subject and everyone who disagreed would start talking about how that person was full of self-hatred and that it was the self-hate and groupthink that was doing the talking, and the people who disagreed with those people would start talking about how those people were the automatons spitting out their unconscious programming, and on and on and on. Alternatively we would all agree on all points and never discover anything new, never rethink anything we previously considered to be true, never look at something from a different perspective, we would live in this eternal circle jerk of self-congratulations. I thank god we aren't all the same as you.Perhaps you will want to rethink that opinion. I only know one thing about you. We are the same with one of us knowing it and the other not.
And remember that while I may be far ahead of you in understanding what makes people tick, it does not mean I am anywhere near where I could be. I am sure there are people far far more conscious than I ever have been, than I may be beyond you. I may be a nobody, but I forget that almost all of the time. I am convinced there are things I fear to remember.
Give some thought to that link............