America's String Has Run Out, And Nobody Wants To Make Hard, Progressive Choices

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,306
1,878
126
Please advise if you cannot read this LA Times article published yesterday:

"No One Can Grasp Trillions"

The national debt keeps growing. Irresponsible presidents like Trump -- particularly Trump -- cannot stop deficit spending.

The GOP's idea as a means of chipping away at the problem -- and Trump's idea -- is to simply cut spending on the most costly programs while sustaining defense spending.

People like Elon Musk, whose companies have huge government defense or NASA contracts, know that they get significant slices of the defense and aerospace pies through their companies' sole-source contracts. Others who fall into that category will support taxation to some point because they think they "get their money back".

Everyone else was promised certain things in what seem like guarantees: a decent Social Security benefit; Medicare benefits for the elderly; veteran's benefits that may also subsidize medical or related needs like "aid and attendance" care; Medicaid benefits through states for the medically indigent.

After World War II, our leaders had the common sense to support these things through progressive taxation. We had avoided more dire socialist alternatives through labor unions and progressive taxation.

But the irresponsible impulses caused deficit spending to expand, and now here we are.

My hindsight prescription was contrary to the Dubya Bush presidency and it's impulses parallel to waging two wars: one unnecessary but for the inclinations of an oil industry bent on access to the Iraqi deposits,; and the other war with unreasonable expectations for nation-building in Afghanistan when an effective police action to capture Bin Laden should've been a rational scope of involvement. So, with those two wars and when it had always been thought prudent to raise taxes during wartime, Bush chose to lower taxes.

This is partly an underlying basis for electing a lunatic and criminal with his yes-men to the presidency.

The TIMES says that each taxpayer in the country -- on average -- owes about $240,000 toward this national debt. But the truth of the matter, knowing that a considerable majority of taxpayers can't possibly afford to pay such an amount, is that some would owe more and some would owe less under progressive taxation.

Elon doesn't want to lose some sizeable portion of his quarter-trillion in assets, and not feeling responsible for the "real Americans" promised those various benefits, he had his antic moment with the chain-saw, persisting in damaging the lives of civil servants whose salaries were only 4 % of the national budget.

The majority of GOP legislators simply choose not to give a damn about America's promises to its people, so they'd rather eliminate red-state advantages for getting more in federal spending than those states pay in taxes.

What needs to be done and who needs to step up to the plate to do it? I, for instance, could manage an additional $1,000 per year in personal taxation. But that's about the extent of what I consider a "comfortable sacrifice".
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,028
12,381
136
The article conflates national debt with personal debt. They do not behave in the same way.

Who are the debt holders? Most of that debt is held by the American people, not foreign debtors.

With the US dollar as world reserve currency (though for how much longer), printing additional dollars is not nearly as inflationary as it would be for other countries.

And taxing the rich would not crush economic growth

Yes, trillions of dollars to lay people are generally as intractable as 13.5 billion light years are as a distance, but that doesn't mean either is utterly impossible for anyone to understand. It's a solvable problem.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,386
6,668
126
25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one[a]cubit to his [b]stature?

28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not [c]arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,364
9,933
136
Please advise if you cannot read this LA Times article published yesterday:

"No One Can Grasp Trillions"

Everyone else was promised certain things in what seem like guarantees: a decent Social Security benefit; Medicare benefits for the elderly; veteran's benefits that may also subsidize medical or related needs like "aid and attendance" care; Medicaid benefits through states for the medically indigent.

After World War II, our leaders had the common sense to support these things through progressive taxation. We had avoided more dire socialist alternatives through labor unions and progressive taxation.

But the irresponsible impulses caused deficit spending to expand, and now here we are.

The TIMES says that each taxpayer in the country -- on average -- owes about $240,000 toward this national debt. But the truth of the matter, knowing that a considerable majority of taxpayers can't possibly afford to pay such an amount, is that some would owe more and some would owe less under progressive taxation.

Elon doesn't want to lose some sizeable portion of his quarter-trillion in assets, and not feeling responsible for the "real Americans" promised those various benefits, he had his antic moment with the chain-saw, persisting in damaging the lives of civil servants whose salaries were only 4 % of the national budget.

The majority of GOP legislators simply choose not to give a damn about America's promises to its people, so they'd rather eliminate red-state advantages for getting more in federal spending than those states pay in taxes.

What needs to be done and who needs to step up to the plate to do it? I, for instance, could manage an additional $1,000 per year in personal taxation. But that's about the extent of what I consider a "comfortable sacrifice".
You forgot one thing. Americans used to be happy paying taxes to fund these entitlement programs. The top marginal tax rate throughout the 50s was 91% for high earners—the Revenue Act in ‘64 brought it down to 77%. But something else happened in ‘64–the Civil Rights Act. Once the Southern Strategy took hold, the GOP was no longer comfortable with contributing tax dollars to a pie that would be shared with darkies. By the 1980s, when it was clear that non-whites would ultimately become a majority in America, lowering taxes became the #1 issue. Corporate America had already started to shift executive compensation into stock option grants, unions were getting busted, and hedge funds were raiding pension plans to accelerate wealth accumulation at the top.

Reaganomics and the new GOP essentially setup White America to become permanent minority overlords of the future America, and we’re watching this play out today.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,306
1,878
126
You forgot one thing. Americans used to be happy paying taxes to fund these entitlement programs. The top marginal tax rate throughout the 50s was 91% for high earners—the Revenue Act in ‘64 brought it down to 77%. But something else happened in ‘64–the Civil Rights Act. Once the Southern Strategy took hold, the GOP was no longer comfortable with contributing tax dollars to a pie that would be shared with darkies. By the 1980s, when it was clear that non-whites would ultimately become a majority in America, lowering taxes became the #1 issue. Corporate America had already started to shift executive compensation into stock option grants, unions were getting busted, and hedge funds were raiding pension plans to accelerate wealth accumulation at the top.

Reaganomics and the new GOP essentially setup White America to become permanent minority overlords of the future America, and we’re watching this play out today.
All opinions here thus far seem grounded in common sense, Particularly your observations would seem correct or in the ball park, although one would have to go farther to actually prove the correlation with racial concerns is a matter of cause and effect. But I remember the 1950s and the highest marginal tax rate: may parents weren't unhappy and neither was I.

Even so, we currently pay a significant amount of our federal taxes to merely service the ongoing debt, and it's easy to wonder how that money could be better used if the debt service was much lower. I still insist that W Bush should have raised taxes in 2003, and they should've been raised again to counter the deficits.

What I don't understand, though, is how a local businessman whose "management salary" under his business was about $30,000 fifteen years ago when we had a conversation, could advocate a "flat tax" as opposed to progressive taxation. Progressive taxation is the only way we've been able to pay for the government expenditures that we have. And the businessman I speak of was someone I'd also determined to be a racist -- and denying their racism.
 
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