$200 card for DOOM3?

[dzspleen]

Originally posted by: Denis54
I want to buy a new video card as a birthday gift for my son. His system is as follows: P4 3.0, 512 mb dual channel memory, GF3 Ti 8200, WD SATA 120 GB HD. He says his video card is not powerfull enough to play DOOM3 smoothly.

Which card should I buy? I would like not to exceed $200.

Which card manufacturers are the most thrustworthy?

I just bought the MSI 9800 Pro from Newegg and it runs Doom 3 really well. Quite the upgrade from my old laptop's 7500. Just make sure you get the latest drivers for it, D3 kept crapping out on me until I got new drivers. I would thrust this card, many thrustworthy games come with it too!

 

[selfbuilt]

Another vote for the 9800 pro ... I have a built-by-ATI model (available in Canada at any FutureShop, BestBuy for $300CDN), and it runs Doom3 fine with latest drivers (e.g. with ~10% o/c at 1280x1024 HQ, I get 32 FPS on timedemo ... can easily get FPS in low-mid 40s at 1024x768 HQ). Coming from a GeF3, it will last your son a good while. And don't bother with the extra RAM - my own testing between 512MB and 1GB reveals precious littler difference on any task, including Doom3.

 

[DarkKnight]

ram does not help increase framerates, but it does get rid some of the stutter. On my system with only 1/2 the ram, I could only run farcry at 1280X1024 at medium w/ some eye candy off and have smooth framerates, but when I put it on high or ultra high the game would start to stutter and lose its smoothness. With a gig, I'm running with everything to the max (except AA + AF) and its silky smooth.

I haven't tried doom3 with only 512mb, but ram can make a difference, but I don't know if it will help in Doom3. Think of it as a future upgrade.

If your gonna spend $280 on a video card and ram, I think you should just get the 6800 now and get the ram later. Doom3 is heavily video card limited (when I clock my cpu from 2.0ghz to 2.3ghz, saw absolutely no increase in performance)so the 6800 will be better.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Avalon
Wow @ the 6600GT. That's smoking mainstream performance for Doom 3. I'd suspect one would see large performance gains over the x600 XT in other titles as well. Moving their mainstream cards from a 4 pipeline architecture to an 8 can only mean good things for those on a budget. It's unfortunate that ATI's x600 cards are virtually the same as their last gen equivalents
I'd like to see how a 6600GT matches up with a 9800 pro...guess I've got a while to wait.

Yeah but that shouldn't matter when ATI introduces RV410 with 8 pipelines and makes things more competitive. Most people knew from reading that X600 series was not a true mainstream offering and was just a stopgap card for the time when ATI was preparing a R420 spinoff which should be here real soon giving 6600 series a run for its money. Of course we know doom 3 will still belong to nvidia cards though.

Latest Info on RV410

 

[Childs]

9800Pro runs D3 good on a similar system to yours. You should be able to run at 1024x768 High Quality 2xAA and average over 36fps. I would think anything from a 9600XT/5700U to a 9800Pro would be decent enough.

 

[Gurck]

For $200 a 9800pro 128/256 would be your best bet. However, on the difference bewtween 512mb and 1gb of ram - I've found it to be significant. I recently built a new PC and the 512mb dimm I ordered for it is faulty, so while I'm RMA'ing it I've donated one of mine to the new pc, and mine with 512mb is now exasperatingly slow not only in some games, but in general as well (though 512mb is usually enough for most people; I simply multitask a lot and have a lot of resident programs). I loaded up Far Cry the other day and got a slideshow at settings which run silky-smooth with 1gb. I've noticed it in other games as well, though not quite as much, and as I've said, in windows in general.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Denis54
His birthday is September 3. His present card is a GF3 Ti 8200 which is older than a GF4. Obviously, a new card will be a major improvement.

Would there be a significant improvement if he also increases his memory to 1 GB?

1. The 9800Pro is your best buy for $200 at this time, period. I personally consider the 6800NU with Far Cry a better deal at $280, but for $200 your best buy is the 9800Pro. This will be a HUGE upgrade for you son.

2. Contrary to what Apoppin' says

Sure . . . especially for Doom III and many games . . . you can wait "forever" for a game to load and fps performance will slow with even 512MB RAM . . . 1GB is the solution . . . however, try to get RAM of the same characteristics (if not "identical") to what is already there since your son's rig is Dual Channel.

Anandtech says 512 vs 1GB memory makes no difference at all:
The truth about memory and Doom3 here on AT

It was surprising that there were no real performance differences between 512MB, 1GB, and 2GB of memory in our benchmarks with the built-in Demo1.

If you're thinking about spending more on memory to add on, as well as a 9800Pro, this is a very bad move indeed.

You could add the cost of the memory to your video card budget and get a 6800NU and double your son's Doom3 performance over a 9800Pro. Or you could buy the memory and not see any difference at all.

Trust me on this one: If you're considering the memory, buy the 6800NU instead. Your son will thank you. (and have a free copy of Far Cry to play when he's done with Doom3)

as usual rollo, you MISS my point in your desire to nitpick (i guess i'm sorry your "feelings" got hurt over my comments about your 6800Substandard . . . )

Game levels (in GENERAL) will LOAD faster with more RAM - even Doom . . . SOME games - i did NOT refer specifically to Doom - which i consider a truly crappy game - will slow the FPS as system RAM is used up and the HD needs to be accessed.

The other point you missed, rollo, was that i said the VIDEO CARD would make the BIGGEST difference, not the RAM.

As usual . . . you missed it again looking for crap (i didn't say) to nitpick.

:roll:

 

[nRollo]

Apoppin':
This guy is buying a birthday present for his son. I am a father as well, and to me the fact that he asked for advice for his son means more to me than any stupid rivalry with you, or any imagined brand loyalty, anything else, period.

To be honest, I was so impressed by his questions I almost offered him my 6800NU for $200, which would be kind of like giving away money, wouldn't it?

I gave out two pieces of advice:

Spending $200:
Buy R9800Pro.

Spending $200 + cost of RAM:
Buy 6800NU instead.

He specifically said this is to play Doom3 better. Is there any sane person on the board who thinks a 9800 Pro + 512RAM is a better Doom3 upgrade for this guy's rig than a 6800NU?

Why don't you point us at some benchmarks that back up your clueless advice Apoppin"? I am waiting.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Apoppin':
This guy is buying a birthday present for his son. I am a father as well, and to me the fact that he asked for advice for his son means more to me than any stupid rivalry with you, or any imagined brand loyalty, anything else, period.

To be honest, I was so impressed by his questions I almost offered him my 6800NU for $200, which would be kind of like giving away money, wouldn't it?

I gave out two pieces of advice:

Spending $200:
Buy R9800Pro.

Spending $200 + cost of RAM:
Buy 6800NU instead.

He specifically said this is to play Doom3 better. Is there any sane person on the board who thinks a 9800 Pro + 512RAM is a better Doom3 upgrade for this guy's rig than a 6800NU?

Why don't you point us at some benchmarks that back up your clueless advice Apoppin"? I am waiting.

you call me clueless . . . look moron, this is getting stupider and stupider.

I am DONE talking to you; You are on my IGNORE list . . . don't bother answering me since i will NEVER read another post from you again.

the reasonable people here know i was trying to be helpful in answering a fellow members question "would adding 512MB more RAM make a significant difference".

Why, YES, it WILL make a difference - it IS noticeable in loading levels and helps SOME games very noticeable (Doom III isn't the only new game out) . . . and i proceeded to give advice about DC. Then i mentioned it would make MUCH LESS difference than the video card upgrade.

i don't feel every post i make needs to be nitpicked; in your hypocritical "willingness to help" you are destroying forum harmony. And you are first "offering" a 6800 for $200 and then taking back the offer.

"Almost offered"?

How generous.

 

[nRollo]

Apoppin'- this is a kid's birthday we're talking about.

If you're going to spout nonsense like

you can wait "forever" for a game to load and fps performance will slow with even 512MB RAM . . . 1GB is the solution .

and

adding 512 MB to my already 512 MB made a SIGNIFICANT difference in games

I'm going to call you on it.

The OP might actually think you know what you're talking about, get his son the RAM/9800Pro, when he could have got him twice the performance for the same price with a 6800NU.

(that you paradoxically call "substandard" when you've never owned a card close to that good)

Why don't you look at any Doom 3 review on the web, notice the 6800NU owning the X800Pro, let alone a 9800Pro? Then find me one game review where adding 512MB to a 512MB system added 10% to performance at a playable setting for a 9800Pro?

There's only one right answer here Apoppin, and you didn't give it. I'm not going to let you screw over some innocent kid's birthday with your unfounded opinions and misinformation.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

Wow, appopin. Rollo may be biased but at least he isn't an idiot.

To the OP: enjoy

 

[SneakyStuff]

You two are acting like children yourselves. Provide the father with ideas, not a long, drawn out arguement. The 9800 Pro is a very cost effective solution if you ask me. $194

 

[moonboy403]

flashing it to 9800xt would definitely increase the bang for buck department

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
flashing it to 9800xt would definitely increase the bang for buck department

OP- this would get you little, perhaps destroy the card, and void your warranty. Beware.

 

[silverbullet555]

I've noticed the PowerColor cards seem to be pretty affordable. Does anyone have any experience with them, and if so, how do they stack up?

 

[railer]

sheesh Rollo, I've got a nephew that I've given two cards to in the past week (GF4Mx 64 meg, and then Radeon 8500LE 64 meg) and he STILL can't play Doom 3. I guess he'll just have to suffer while all of his friends rave about D3. If only he had reasonably priced 6800nu......if only.....<sniff, sniff>.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Wow, appopin. Rollo may be biased but at least he isn't an idiot.

To the OP: enjoy

i (finally) learned . . . to NEVER reply to him . . .

something you seem to also have a problem with when he is baiting you

i stand by my advice:

1) the video card upgrade will make the biggest difference

2) upgrading system RAM is significant - especially for loading game levels

what's so wrong about that?

and it seems the original poster dropped out of this thread . . .

:roll:

 

[Arcanedeath]

at the $200 US price point the 9800 Pro 256bit 128mb is the best card to play doom 3 w/ but if you can wait till the 6600GT comes out it should beat the 9800 Pro, or if you could get a 9800Pro w/ 256mb of ram and flash it to an XT it would perform a bit better but cost more is the 225-250 range, but in truth the best card on a budget atm to play doom 3 is the 6800NU by far but it comes in at aprox $280 US, unless you can find a good deal. Hope this helps...

 

[Denis54]

I have not dropped out of the thread, as a matter of fact I have read each post with much interrest.

My son is not much of a gamer. He games a bit but is mostly interested by programming. That is why is has survived so far with his old GF3. DOOM3 is essentially the only game that interests him.

Programming is the main reason for additional RAM. Bringing better performance with DOOM3 would simply have been an additional incentive for more RAM.

When will the AGP version of the 6600 be available?

For the time being it seems like the 9800 Pro is our best bet.

 

[The Green Bean]

9800pro

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: silverbullet555
I've noticed the PowerColor cards seem to be pretty affordable. Does anyone have any experience with them, and if so, how do they stack up?

NO! Those are 128 bit 9800 Pro's consider it like a 9800 Pro with a severe handicapp.

 

[Cawchy87]

I would recommend a 9700pro and 512 stick of ram

 

[nitromullet]

DOOM3 is essentially the only game that interests him.

If this is the case, do not go with an ATi card. Both ATi and nVidia cards will perform very well for any 2D programming your son does, but a nVida card will perform better in Doom3. Also, if your son is into programming, he might like to run Linux as well..? nVidia offers much better driver support for Linux then ATi, which can be the difference between a simple install and a week long nightmare for the Linux beginner.

 

[Marsumane]

Rollo and Apoppin are both correct in their own ways. Specifically, JUST for doom 3 performance, w/o any other considerations, a 6800nu would be the best bet for IMAGE QUALITY. On the other hand, for most other games, specifically dx9 games, and also considering load times, a 9800pro + 512mb ram would be more beneficial in MOST but not ALL cases.

Summary:
Doom 3: 6800nu
Longlivety: 9800p w/ 512mb ram

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Marsumane
Rollo and Apoppin are both correct in their own ways. Specifically, JUST for doom 3 performance, w/o any other considerations, a 6800nu would be the best bet for IMAGE QUALITY. On the other hand, for most other games, specifically dx9 games, and also considering load times, a 9800pro + 512mb ram would be more beneficial in MOST but not ALL cases.

Summary:
Doom 3: 6800nu
Longlivety: 9800p w/ 512mb ram

I can't agree with you there Marsumane, I think a 6800NU/512 would beat a 9800Pro/1GB at any DX9 games that are currently out at any playable setting. (i.e. the 6800 cannot do 16X12 4X8X very well, but neither card is going to run DX9 PS2 games well at that setting anyway?)

E.G.
TRAOD
6800 beating 9800XT at DX9 game

And I'd still like to see the elusive benchmark where 1GB of RAM made a difference. I'd also be happy to benchmark any game at any setting that I have with 512MB and 1GB? I've got Painkiller, Doom3, UT2003, and others. I might do this this weekend just to put this myth to bed for good.