2007WFP gradient banding

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: spronkey
Isn't swimming usually associated with signal interferance? The S-IPS panels are definnitely 8-bit (their accompanying electronics might not be, but given they can display the colour cubes fine apparently...)

Not all color tones must be dithered in a 6-bit system so some could very well display fine. Certain contrast settings allow you to dodge the dithering in the tests if the tests are coarse enough.

BTW, nice chart you made. I don't know what the swimming is, but my best guess is dithering because I only see it on certain tones (or possibly less on some). Not sure why that would be induced when using DVI (if the connection works at all, it should be perfect?) I see swimming in the gray background of your test image on my VP930b, and it's pretty much the only imperfection I see.

 

[aniruddha23]

My NEC is a 6 bit Pansl and the most sure fire way I found to detect on is to use the Adobe Gamma tool. Unfortunately it comes bundled only with Photoshop. In the Gamma tests if the Red/Green/Blue squares wont merge into the background you are most probably using 6 bit.

 

[yacoub]

posted in the Dell Forums banding thread. Hopefully this gets some serious attention and a resolution for us owners.

 

[Ryan Norton]

Noob here, with a 5mp Canon point and click. What's the best way to take a pic of the banding? It's there in every test image/app that's been put up in this thread, but this is the best image I can take so far:

http://georgetown.edu/users/rln2/2007wfpbanding001.jpg

 

[mpc7488]

I just got mine today, only had it running about 15 minutes, not noticing anything overwhelming at all. Looking through the spronkey.com Gradient and Banding Test Chart, I notice faint banding on the greens and that's it. Using DVI @ 1680 x 1050, 32 bit color, panel is Made in Mexico.

I'm hopping in game to try it out now.

*Update - played Neverwinter Nights and Guild Wars, both looked good, did not notice anything unusual. The comment below is true, the surface does look a bit "grainy" on a white background (almost like its dusty), but it hasn't bothered me otherwise.

 

[Shortass]

I just got my 2007WFP today and while it has banding it's not really enough to bother me that much. What does bother me is during normal use it looks like it has static all over it, like a weirdish glow that kind of makes me sick. How should I go about fixing this?

 

[astromoose]

i agree with you, it looks dirty like a film is on the screen. my friends rear projection HDTV is the same way, i told him he should clean it then i realized thats how its supposed to be; the 2007 is very similar to that. was the 2005 any different?

i do think its better than the glossy finish on the NEC20GX, i originally got one of those but returned it, images and games were stunning but the intensity hurt my eyes when reading text for a long time.

hopefully in a few months there will be a revision that fixes the color banding, it definitely sounds like something with the dell electronics. the composite video input on mine is distorted so i'm going to exchange it at some point anyway.

have any of the more reputable sites reviewed these monitors and mentioned anything? maybe they are waiting for a consensus on this banding problem

 

[Shortass]

Hopefully they'll honor free replacement with the revision, if it ever comes. The screen is beautiful in WoW except the sky banding, which I never look at, but the normal usage makes my eyes bleed. I think i'm returning it anyway, but I'd like to buy it again if it ever gets fixed...

 

[Ciber]

I have two 2007WFP's and i'm getting banding on both and my friend is also getting it on his, so at this point it's safe to say that it's there on all of them.

Btw, I also see it from VGA input from a pc and also from my Powerbook's dvi and vga output and also from my Xbox 360's vga output.


We should just start sending links to all these threads to every news/tech site etc... Lets make some noise people!

You paying attention Anandtech/Dailytech staff?

 

[VV1920]

Thanks a lot TurboJAzn & yacoub for your replies.
So your panels are LM201W01 S-IPS LG.Philips that seems to be the 'official' panel of the 2007WFP. But it's fairly probable that the 2007WFP will come with a PVA panel, too:
http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc273&image=29580_1.JPG
and I guess that a PVA panel won't be affected by the banding issue.

Two panels for one monitor, just like Dell 1905 and 1907!

I also found this elsewhere:
Dell 2007WFP (widescreen) = 20.1 inch 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201WE2) panel, but I don't know how reliable it is.

 

[mrmckeb]

Originally posted by: Ryan Norton
Free 2407WFPs for everybody...? =^)

Dude, if only you could organise that!

 

[Ryan Norton]

Reposting from Dell forum, but this is so comical... I called Dell Tech Support to "log" this issue and got a woman with an Indian name and accent. She asked for my order number, shipping address, and phone number, all of which I READ TO HER FROM DELL'S EMAIL TO ME! Result: "I'm sorry sir, the phone number and address you provide do not match your order number, we can't help you." WTF Dell...

 

[Ciber]

Well guys I emailed a bunch of places with the issue, so far Engadget has been the only one to publish the issue.

If you guys can email some other places, please do.


Link.

 

[Ryan Norton]

Is Engadget some kind of Apple fanboy stomping ground? I don't read it daily so I don't have a good idea of the IT-political leanings of its posters, but the people commenting on the thread were VERY quick to say either "lol DELL POS Apple pwns" (funny in light of the thread on thsi board about notorious backlight leakage on one of their cinema displays but whatever) OR say that we're idiot, we're whining, the tests are invalid, we don't understand color, etc. etc.

 

[Ciber]

Originally posted by: Ryan Norton
Is Engadget some kind of Apple fanboy stomping ground? I don't read it daily so I don't have a good idea of the IT-political leanings of its posters, but the people commenting on the thread were VERY quick to say either "lol DELL POS Apple pwns" (funny in light of the thread on thsi board about notorious backlight leakage on one of their cinema displays but whatever) OR say that we're idiot, we're whining, the tests are invalid, we don't understand color, etc. etc.

It's a gadget blog... they report on EVERYTHING tech related pretty much.

 

[mpc7488]

There is a very good writeup comparing the Dell to a Viewsonic with lots of pictures on the Widescreengaming forums, http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4203.

Having used mine for a few hours last night, so far I agree with his synopsis:

"If in the Desktop Mode as previously stated, there will probably not be any banding noticed in normal usage. I have not noticed any banding in games, videos, or pictures, only gradient tests. Hell, I have some gradient banding on my 37" Sharp Aquos LC-37D6U when I tried the gradient test on it, but never noticed any problems playing games or watching TV and movies on it."

 

[Ciber]

Originally posted by: mpc7488
There is a very good writeup comparing the Dell to a Viewsonic with lots of pictures on the Widescreengaming forums, http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4203.

Having used mine for a few hours last night, so far I agree with his synopsis:

"If in the Desktop Mode as previously stated, there will probably not be any banding noticed in normal usage. I have not noticed any banding in games, videos, or pictures, only gradient tests. Hell, I have some gradient banding on my 37" Sharp Aquos LC-37D6U when I tried the gradient test on it, but never noticed any problems playing games or watching TV and movies on it."

I'll just quote an earlier post of mine:

"I see the banding in a lot of places, not just these tests.

On my mac i see it in LCDTEST and Frontrow, I also see it on my xbox 360 using the vga cable in pgr3 and battlefield 2."

 

[imported_greyhound]

Originally posted by: mpc7488
There is a very good writeup comparing the Dell to a Viewsonic with lots of pictures on the Widescreengaming forums, http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4203.

Having used mine for a few hours last night, so far I agree with his synopsis:

"If in the Desktop Mode as previously stated, there will probably not be any banding noticed in normal usage. I have not noticed any banding in games, videos, or pictures, only gradient tests. Hell, I have some gradient banding on my 37" Sharp Aquos LC-37D6U when I tried the gradient test on it, but never noticed any problems playing games or watching TV and movies on it."

I totally agree with that review - the monitor is awesome (actually I have the L2000c, which has less banding than what is shown in the gradients he posted) in every respect other than DVI banding, which I have yet to really notice in any application (unless it's a sky and I'm looking right at it), and the VGA looks just as good with little or no banding. I agree with xtknight that this banding issue is getting blown out of proportion (I'll take it over backlight bleeding or crappy viewing angles any day) and that most people won't notice it in 99% of what they do. Those that do care can simply switch to VGA without any apparent diminution in other visual quality.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Willfully ignoring a product defect is not something I am good at. The gradient program is a test case, but it is clear it happens is real usages scenarios as well, as there are a number of people who noticed it first in games/webpages/movies before they found the threads on it or did any gradient tests.

Switching to VGA is not a solution. I will be using both inputs, lower quality source with only VGA out will be going in my VGA port and the main computer must be connected via DVI. Even if this wasn't the case, I wouldn't simply accept a product with substandard DVI input.

There have been comparisons to numerous other LCD's at this point and none of them show this much banding. Including dells older models. It looks like cheaper electronics where used to drive the DVI this time around.

Some people are also reporting a wierd flashing problem on VGA, BTW...

 

[Ryan Norton]

Honestly, I didn't think the issue would bother me, but I notice it in Oblivion, especially at the horizon. It's not just test images for me-- and my 2001FP doesn't have the problem.

Part of what grates on me is the possibility that the LG-Philips LCD panel is fine, but that the problem lies with whatever Dell does to connect the DVI input to the panel. I'm 75% sure that's what's at fault, based on what I've read so far, and it's pretty frustrating. I'm waiting for Dell to prove me wrong though, I'd be 100% happy with this device were it not for this issue, so here's hoping for a settings change or something similar from Dell.

 

[oddity]

I think it's pretty stupid to say "It looks fine if I use the older technology port to plug it in, so I don't know what your guys' problems are!?"

It's kinda like.... buying a car with no doors- "Well it's fine if I get in through the sun roof!"

 

[ndolson]

What is the button sequence to see what panel LCD it is?

 

[Ryan Norton]

Turn off the monitor, hold + and menu buttons at the same time while turning it on.

After the power is on, let go of the 2 buttons and then press the - button.

quoted from earlier in thread

 

[ndolson]

Thank you. I knew I had seen it but couldn't find it in ten pages...

I know that the ones I received are made in Mexico. I'll check what panel when I get home.

 

[imported_greyhound]

Originally posted by: oddity
I think it's pretty stupid to say "It looks fine if I use the older technology port to plug it in, so I don't know what your guys' problems are!?"

It's kinda like.... buying a car with no doors- "Well it's fine if I get in through the sun roof!"

I didn't purport to say that it would work for everyone - guidryp obviously needs a different solution. By the way, no flashing here on VGA though that may be Dell-specific.

On the other hand, there is nothing "stupid" about saying that a defect which doesn't manifest itself often enough or severely enough to make a discernible difference isn't a big deal. Just because the VGA port is "older" doesn't mean it's of worse quality. Is a DVI image always better than a component image on a tv - no. Anyhow, there are many items we use every day that are "defective" in some way that isn't a practical problem. If all I did was look at grayscale gradients and I couldn't use VGA, I'd care more. And again, I acknowledge the problem on Dells seems to be more severe than on LG's.