Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: jinduy
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: OCguy
King who is still the best player in the league
Fixed
If his team had half the talent the Lakers have, he would have already won a championship. Kobe has to win a championship now or very soon as he's just getting older and he needs to win one without Shaq. If he doesn't then Shaq is going to ask how his ass tastes again.
if kobe doesnt win this series, it will solidfy the notion that it was Shaq's lakers that won, not "shaq & kobe's."
That would be one reason to root for the Lakers. Shaq is an a$$hole.
One reason to root for the Magic would be because Shaq is an a$$hole.
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: jinduy
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: OCguy
King who is still the best player in the league
Fixed
If his team had half the talent the Lakers have, he would have already won a championship. Kobe has to win a championship now or very soon as he's just getting older and he needs to win one without Shaq. If he doesn't then Shaq is going to ask how his ass tastes again.
if kobe doesnt win this series, it will solidfy the notion that it was Shaq's lakers that won, not "shaq & kobe's."
That would be one reason to root for the Lakers. Shaq is an a$$hole.
One reason to root for the Magic would be because Shaq is an a$$hole.
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: OCguy
King who is still the best player in the league
Fixed
If his team had half the talent the Lakers have, he would have already won a championship. Kobe has to win a championship now or very soon as he's just getting older and he needs to win one without Shaq. If he doesn't then Shaq is going to ask how his ass tastes again.
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: OCguy
King who is still the best player in the league
Fixed
If his team had half the talent the Lakers have, he would have already won a championship. Kobe has to win a championship now or very soon as he's just getting older and he needs to win one without Shaq. If he doesn't then Shaq is going to ask how his ass tastes again.
LOL! Kobe didnt win one without Shaq. Shaq didnt win one without Kobe or Wade.
MJ didnt win one without Pippen.
Blah blah blah. This league is about winning.
Why didnt Lebron make his teammates better?
Kobe averaged 35 a game one season, and all the haters could say was that he was a ballhog and didnt make his teammates better.
Lebron is going to get jewelry, that is for sure. But the "King" garbage got to his head a little early, and it screwed him.
He has a long way to go to match or best what KB has accomplished. Im not saying he cant do it, i'm just staying he still needs to do it.
Originally posted by: scorpious
Goodbye "King".
Time for the Lakers to be crowned champion for the 4th time this decade.
Please, do not fuck this up Lakers. Please.
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: scorpious
Goodbye "King".
Time for the Lakers to be crowned champion for the 4th time this decade.
Please, do not fuck this up Lakers. Please.
If Odom plays well, I think the Lakers will win the series.
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: OCguy
King who is still the best player in the league
Fixed
If his team had half the talent the Lakers have, he would have already won a championship. Kobe has to win a championship now or very soon as he's just getting older and he needs to win one without Shaq. If he doesn't then Shaq is going to ask how his ass tastes again.
LOL! Kobe didnt win one without Shaq. Shaq didnt win one without Kobe or Wade.
MJ didnt win one without Pippen.
Blah blah blah. This league is about winning.
Why didnt Lebron make his teammates better?
Kobe averaged 35 a game one season, and all the haters could say was that he was a ballhog and didnt make his teammates better.
Lebron is going to get jewelry, that is for sure. But the "King" garbage got to his head a little early, and it screwed him.
He has a long way to go to match or best what KB has accomplished. Im not saying he cant do it, i'm just staying he still needs to do it.
Pippen was much more of a subordinate player, although he was wonderful in his own right. But not up to Shaq/Kobe/Wade/LeBron level.
After maturing as a player, Jordan didn't have the opportunity to win one w/o Pippen.
LeBron did make his teammates better, hence the excellent regular season record. Look at all the assists he racked up regular season and playoffs.
Look at the Lakers of a couple of seasons ago. Bynum was a rookie. Kobe wanted him traded in spite of his size and talent. He had the very talented Lamar Odom to work with, yet couldn't form a bond with. Prior to all that, Phil Jackson quit because of Kobe. He called Kobe "uncoachable".
Kobe tried to break the Lakers franchise when he demanded to be traded.
You say the NBA is about winning. Well, who is Kobe to say anything to Phil Jackson, who has 9 rings?
Look at LBJ's historic performance in these playoffs. I don't think anything got to his head. Orlando was the worst matchup possible for the Cavs, and they were also a team that has jelled since Howard called out SVG in the Boston series.
If you're going to judge players by championships, then there are dozens who are better than Kobe. Great players like Robert Horry, Tom sanders, Jim POllard, Slater martin, Michael Cooper, Steve Kerr...
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: OCguy
King who is still the best player in the league
Fixed
If his team had half the talent the Lakers have, he would have already won a championship. Kobe has to win a championship now or very soon as he's just getting older and he needs to win one without Shaq. If he doesn't then Shaq is going to ask how his ass tastes again.
LOL! Kobe didnt win one without Shaq. Shaq didnt win one without Kobe or Wade.
MJ didnt win one without Pippen.
Blah blah blah. This league is about winning.
Why didnt Lebron make his teammates better?
Kobe averaged 35 a game one season, and all the haters could say was that he was a ballhog and didnt make his teammates better.
Lebron is going to get jewelry, that is for sure. But the "King" garbage got to his head a little early, and it screwed him.
He has a long way to go to match or best what KB has accomplished. Im not saying he cant do it, i'm just staying he still needs to do it.
Pippen was much more of a subordinate player, although he was wonderful in his own right. But not up to Shaq/Kobe/Wade/LeBron level.
After maturing as a player, Jordan didn't have the opportunity to win one w/o Pippen.
LeBron did make his teammates better, hence the excellent regular season record. Look at all the assists he racked up regular season and playoffs.
Look at the Lakers of a couple of seasons ago. Bynum was a rookie. Kobe wanted him traded in spite of his size and talent. He had the very talented Lamar Odom to work with, yet couldn't form a bond with. Prior to all that, Phil Jackson quit because of Kobe. He called Kobe "uncoachable".
Kobe tried to break the Lakers franchise when he demanded to be traded.
You say the NBA is about winning. Well, who is Kobe to say anything to Phil Jackson, who has 9 rings?
Look at LBJ's historic performance in these playoffs. I don't think anything got to his head. Orlando was the worst matchup possible for the Cavs, and they were also a team that has jelled since Howard called out SVG in the Boston series.
If you're going to judge players by championships, then there are dozens who are better than Kobe. Great players like Robert Horry, Tom sanders, Jim POllard, Slater martin, Michael Cooper, Steve Kerr...
Of course, Horry comes up. He is the reason the Lakers got their first championship this decade, because of that game against Sac when Vlade tipped it out.
However, winning as a 6th or 7th man, and getting rings as the #1 or #2 spot on the team, are very different.
LBJ's performance was far from "historic". He had great games, and a great shot. Kobe has scored 30+ in how many playoff games now?
Like I said, Lebron has the potential to get some major hardware.
But not getting by the Magic? Seriously? Hedo? Sad.
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
You said it's a "winner's" league, so I just pointed out some "winners" that Kobe will not likely catch.
Yup, LBJ put some some historic #'s in this series. TNT & ESPN displayed bunches of them. A nearly unprecedented total of pts/rbds/asts.
Again, the Magic were a peculiarly poor matchup for the Cavs. Just like the Pistons were a poor matchup for the more talented Lakers in 2004.
Last year the Lakers couldn't beat the Celtics? Seriously? Rajon Rondo? Even sadder.
t seems a little early for this, and a lot foolish for this, but here we are: The LeBron James backlash has begun. He's only 24, but writers are tired of writing about him. Readers are tired of reading about him.
All of you silly people who are tired of LeBron James, do me a favor. Maybe you're a sportswriter or a blogger and you've written something like my friend at the Orlando Sentinel, Mike Bianchi, wrote on Monday. Maybe you're a reader and you've gone onto a message board and nodded along with something like you'll find here at CBSSports.com on Monday.
It's not all offense -- LeBron James is a terrific defensive player. (Getty Images)
It's not all offense -- LeBron James is a terrific defensive player. (Getty Images)
Here's the favor I need: Print out whatever you wrote. Print out whatever you read. The story, the message-board post, whatever. Print it. And save it. And 20 years from now, go back and read it.
You'll be humiliated.
Because by then it will be obvious: The game's greatest player was right in front of your eyes. And you missed it.
The same thing is happening in golf. Tiger Woods is the greatest player in that sport's history. He hasn't played long enough to wipe every last vestige of Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer from the record book, but he will. He'll get there. And when he does, when Tiger Woods is officially and not just subjectively recognized as the greatest golfer of all time, who will you be? Will you be one of the people who recognized his greatness -- I don't care if you appreciate it, just recognize it -- or will you be one of the people who didn't?
? East finals: Cavaliers-Magic
This is like being alive in the year 25. If Jesus was really around back then, healing dead people and turning water to wine, imagine being one of the negative knuckleheads who didn't believe.
Did I just compare LeBron to Jesus?
Looks like I did.
At least I didn't compare LeBron to Tim Tebow. That would be blasphemy.
Moving on ...
This story isn't just about LeBron. It's about you. Take some personal inventory and try to decide, if you're one of the growing number of people sick of LeBron James, why that is. Maybe you're a Magic fan, at which point I understand. You're excused. Your competitive juices are flowing, and NBA game officials are giving James too much leeway for your liking, and so for the moment you dig your feet into the ground and refuse to buy into the Nike slogan and be a witness to King James. Fine. Completely understandable. But when this series ends, one way or the other, acknowledge James' greatness or risk ridicule -- your own ridicule -- 20 years from now when his greatness is stated as a matter of fact.
Kind of like the way we now state Michael Jordan's greatness.
Which brings me to the other group of people who would deny LeBron: the title worshippers.
Poll
Does LeBron James need to win a title to be considered great?
Yes
No
Mentally, you're weak. Know why? Because you're not strong enough to sift through all the evidence to determine the greatest players of all time. Forget all that. Forget the way a player plays, the things he does. All you want -- all you can handle -- is a great player's number of championship rings. Michael Jordan won six. LeBron has none. Therefore, Jordan is greater than LeBron.
? Freeman: Magic resentment | De Los Santos: Enough LeBron, already
Well, here's the thing. LeBron is only 24 years old. He'll probably get there, and get his ring or two or five. But if he doesn't, develop the intellectual acuity it takes to understand that a great player's supporting cast will determine if he wins a title, and if so, how many he wins.
Put it this way: Tim Duncan won four NBA titles. Wilt Chamberlain won two. Does that make Duncan twice the player? Please. Chamberlain is the dominant big man in NBA history. Duncan is a very good player, maybe one of the top 25 at any position, ever. But between the two, there is no comparison.
Wilt didn't win his first title until he was 30. And he won it with a supporting cast that included two Hall of Famers in their prime, Hal Greer and Billy Cunningham, and 18,000-point scorer Chet Walker. Look at LeBron's supporting cast. Who are his Hall of Fame teammates? Hell, who is his Chet Walker? None. And nobody. Mo Williams is the only legitimate starter in that lineup, and still the Cavs went 66-16 this season.
Imagine this. Imagine LeBron switching places with Los Angeles' Kobe Bryant. Give James a frontcourt of Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol. LeBron and those Lakers would have gone 78-4.
The greatest player in college basketball history, Pete Maravich, never won a title. The greatest quarterback in the NFL, Dan Marino, never won a Super Bowl. The greatest baseball player, statistically, of all time -- Barry Bonds -- never won a World Series. You can argue Bonds' legitimacy, what with the steroid question, but you cannot argue that he was the best player in baseball for almost 15 years. By a large margin. And he only played in one World Series, losing in 2002.
So here we are. LeBron James. An annual threat to win the NBA scoring title, as he did last year, and one of the best passers in the game. And the second-leading vote getter for the 2009 NBA Defensive Player of the Year. He does it all, and he makes it look easy.
And you're sick of him?
Or, more galling, you don't even understand what you're watching?
Maybe the problem isn't LeBron. Maybe the problem is you. Try watching lacrosse. Because you can't handle basketball.
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
You said it's a "winner's" league, so I just pointed out some "winners" that Kobe will not likely catch.
Yup, LBJ put some some historic #'s in this series. TNT & ESPN displayed bunches of them. A nearly unprecedented total of pts/rbds/asts.
Again, the Magic were a peculiarly poor matchup for the Cavs. Just like the Pistons were a poor matchup for the more talented Lakers in 2004.
Last year the Lakers couldn't beat the Celtics? Seriously? Rajon Rondo? Even sadder.
How can you bag on the Celtics from last year?
3 HOF-ers? Awesome physical defense?
If they were healthy, it would be round 2. Sorry, you are falling short there.
I am a Lakers fan for life, and they did not deserve to win last year. The team that deserved to get the ring did.
Edit: I see you actually agreed with me a couple pages back. Maybe this is the booze talking, but I love you man. :beer:
Edit again: OK, its the booze talking, but you are still alright :thumbsup:
Originally posted by: Jadow
The Magic will win unless Kobe gets away with another RAPE
Originally posted by: Jadow
The Magic will win unless Kobe gets away with another RAPE
The Magic had the better overall team. Even the great Lebron couldn't make up for the lack of depth and support overall on the Cavs. Pietrus outscored the entire Cavs bench over the course of the 6 games which shows how pathetic the depth of the Cavs was.Originally posted by: OCguy
Of course, Horry comes up. He is the reason the Lakers got their first championship this decade, because of that game against Sac when Vlade tipped it out.
However, winning as a 6th or 7th man, and getting rings as the #1 or #2 spot on the team, are very different.
LBJ's performance was far from "historic". He had great games, and a great shot. Kobe has scored 30+ in how many playoff games now?
Like I said, Lebron has the potential to get some major hardware.
But not getting by the Magic? Seriously? Hedo? Sad.
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Magic had the better overall team. Even the great Lebron couldn't make up for the lack of depth and support overall on the Cavs. Pietrus outscored the entire Cavs bench over the course of the 6 games which shows how pathetic the depth of the Cavs was.Originally posted by: OCguy
Of course, Horry comes up. He is the reason the Lakers got their first championship this decade, because of that game against Sac when Vlade tipped it out.
However, winning as a 6th or 7th man, and getting rings as the #1 or #2 spot on the team, are very different.
LBJ's performance was far from "historic". He had great games, and a great shot. Kobe has scored 30+ in how many playoff games now?
Like I said, Lebron has the potential to get some major hardware.
But not getting by the Magic? Seriously? Hedo? Sad.
The same thing can happen to LA. If Odom, Bynum, and others don't step up they will end up getting beat because Kobe can't do it all by himself. The Magic already beat LA this year when Kobe had a great game.
LA better win both of its first two games at home. If the Magic takes just one of them, nuts are going to tighten up in LA.
Originally posted by: herkulease
Here's a question to ponder between now and thursday, if LeBron is dead set on leaving after next season should the Cavs just trade him now and get something rather than nothing? I'm sure the knicks and some other teams would be willing to give up 1st round picks.
Originally posted by: czech09
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Magic had the better overall team. Even the great Lebron couldn't make up for the lack of depth and support overall on the Cavs. Pietrus outscored the entire Cavs bench over the course of the 6 games which shows how pathetic the depth of the Cavs was.Originally posted by: OCguy
Of course, Horry comes up. He is the reason the Lakers got their first championship this decade, because of that game against Sac when Vlade tipped it out.
However, winning as a 6th or 7th man, and getting rings as the #1 or #2 spot on the team, are very different.
LBJ's performance was far from "historic". He had great games, and a great shot. Kobe has scored 30+ in how many playoff games now?
Like I said, Lebron has the potential to get some major hardware.
But not getting by the Magic? Seriously? Hedo? Sad.
The same thing can happen to LA. If Odom, Bynum, and others don't step up they will end up getting beat because Kobe can't do it all by himself. The Magic already beat LA this year when Kobe had a great game.
LA better win both of its first two games at home. If the Magic takes just one of them, nuts are going to tighten up in LA.
I don't think winning both games is a necessity, I think L.A. unlike Cleveland has a good shot of winning some games on the road in a pretty hostile environment (Denver). Phil Jackson is a far better coach in my mind than Mike Brown. He will make his players attack the rim more and try to get Dwight Howard into foul trouble early. I know Brown and the Cavs supposedly did this but having watched every single game, they didn't do it quite as often as even Orlando did. This is one thing that drove me nuts in the one game that went to OT, Howard had 5 fouls and Cleveland didn't force the issue and try to drive the ball inside the lane to try and get him to foul out. Another thing is L.A. should be better defensively than Cleveland was.
I picked L.A. to win it all before the Playoffs started but Orlando is much tougher than I (along with many others on here) anticipated. Just looking forward to some good basketball - praying for at least one buzzer beater finish .
Originally posted by: czech09
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Magic had the better overall team. Even the great Lebron couldn't make up for the lack of depth and support overall on the Cavs. Pietrus outscored the entire Cavs bench over the course of the 6 games which shows how pathetic the depth of the Cavs was.Originally posted by: OCguy
Of course, Horry comes up. He is the reason the Lakers got their first championship this decade, because of that game against Sac when Vlade tipped it out.
However, winning as a 6th or 7th man, and getting rings as the #1 or #2 spot on the team, are very different.
LBJ's performance was far from "historic". He had great games, and a great shot. Kobe has scored 30+ in how many playoff games now?
Like I said, Lebron has the potential to get some major hardware.
But not getting by the Magic? Seriously? Hedo? Sad.
The same thing can happen to LA. If Odom, Bynum, and others don't step up they will end up getting beat because Kobe can't do it all by himself. The Magic already beat LA this year when Kobe had a great game.
LA better win both of its first two games at home. If the Magic takes just one of them, nuts are going to tighten up in LA.
I don't think winning both games is a necessity, I think L.A. unlike Cleveland has a good shot of winning some games on the road in a pretty hostile environment (Denver). Phil Jackson is a far better coach in my mind than Mike Brown. He will make his players attack the rim more and try to get Dwight Howard into foul trouble early. I know Brown and the Cavs supposedly did this but having watched every single game, they didn't do it quite as often as even Orlando did. This is one thing that drove me nuts in the one game that went to OT, Howard had 5 fouls and Cleveland didn't force the issue and try to drive the ball inside the lane to try and get him to foul out. Another thing is L.A. should be better defensively than Cleveland was.
I picked L.A. to win it all before the Playoffs started but Orlando is much tougher than I (along with many others on here) anticipated. Just looking forward to some good basketball - praying for at least one buzzer beater finish .
That's all I'm hoping for too. The Magic already exceeded my expectations this year so any wins against LA will be pure gravy. Hopefully it's a solid, tight series that comes right down to at least a game 6, if not a game 7.Originally posted by: czech09
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The Magic had the better overall team. Even the great Lebron couldn't make up for the lack of depth and support overall on the Cavs. Pietrus outscored the entire Cavs bench over the course of the 6 games which shows how pathetic the depth of the Cavs was.Originally posted by: OCguy
Of course, Horry comes up. He is the reason the Lakers got their first championship this decade, because of that game against Sac when Vlade tipped it out.
However, winning as a 6th or 7th man, and getting rings as the #1 or #2 spot on the team, are very different.
LBJ's performance was far from "historic". He had great games, and a great shot. Kobe has scored 30+ in how many playoff games now?
Like I said, Lebron has the potential to get some major hardware.
But not getting by the Magic? Seriously? Hedo? Sad.
The same thing can happen to LA. If Odom, Bynum, and others don't step up they will end up getting beat because Kobe can't do it all by himself. The Magic already beat LA this year when Kobe had a great game.
LA better win both of its first two games at home. If the Magic takes just one of them, nuts are going to tighten up in LA.
I don't think winning both games is a necessity, I think L.A. unlike Cleveland has a good shot of winning some games on the road in a pretty hostile environment (Denver). Phil Jackson is a far better coach in my mind than Mike Brown. He will make his players attack the rim more and try to get Dwight Howard into foul trouble early. I know Brown and the Cavs supposedly did this but having watched every single game, they didn't do it quite as often as even Orlando did. This is one thing that drove me nuts in the one game that went to OT, Howard had 5 fouls and Cleveland didn't force the issue and try to drive the ball inside the lane to try and get him to foul out. Another thing is L.A. should be better defensively than Cleveland was.
I picked L.A. to win it all before the Playoffs started but Orlando is much tougher than I (along with many others on here) anticipated. Just looking forward to some good basketball - praying for at least one buzzer beater finish .
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
That's all I'm hoping for too. The Magic already exceeded my expectations this year so any wins against LA will be pure gravy. Hopefully it's a solid, tight series that comes right down to at least a game 6, if not a game 7.
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
That's all I'm hoping for too. The Magic already exceeded my expectations this year so any wins against LA will be pure gravy. Hopefully it's a solid, tight series that comes right down to at least a game 6, if not a game 7.
I need the Magic to win at least one game. That way, at least Dwight Howard will have gone further with the Magic than Shaq did.
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
That's all I'm hoping for too. The Magic already exceeded my expectations this year so any wins against LA will be pure gravy. Hopefully it's a solid, tight series that comes right down to at least a game 6, if not a game 7.
I need the Magic to win at least one game. That way, at least Dwight Howard will have gone further with the Magic than Shaq did.
:laugh: