2nd Experience with Windows 8

[Hugo Drax]

First was with the preview version, hoping the official release was good. Nope still sucks like the first round. I decided to see what a fresh to Windows 8 experience would be for someone used to windows 7. So I invited the Wife to test drive.

Well let me tell you hiding stuff in hot corners sure as hell confused her. And to top it off the disjointed Fullscreen Metro VS regular threw her off. She wanted 7 back.

So 2nd Experience with Windows 8 was no better than the 1st Experience with Windows 8.

At least Apple gets touch on the desktop correct. 10.8.2 works great with the Magic Trackpad. You can use Gestures to really speed your workflow and it enhances the experience of the desktop.

I predict a service pack will be coming to get Windows 8 back to Aero.

 

[blurredvision]

Troll post? Has all the markings...

 

[Hugo Drax]

Troll post? Has all the markings...

How is it a Troll? Windows 8 OS is a Troll.

Go ahead get someone who uses Windows 7, plop them in front of a Windows 8 screen and see how it goes. The Two poorly combined UI environment attempting to force tablet onto the desktop is stupid.

90% of the population is not interested.

Windows 9 will get back the proper UI with the Windows 8 underlying enhancements.

This is why Microsoft is hinting at annual OS releases. By next year Metro UI will just have been a bad dream.

 

[Mem]

How is it a Troll? Windows 8 OS is a Troll.

Go ahead get someone who uses Windows 7, plop them in front of a Windows 8 screen and see how it goes. The Two poorly combined UI environment attempting to force tablet onto the desktop is stupid.

90% of the population is not interested.

Windows 9 will get back the proper UI with the Windows 8 underlying enhancements.

This is why Microsoft is hinting at annual OS releases. By next year Metro UI will just have been a bad dream.

Seems like a troill post to me,would be nice if we just had one thread for those that dislike it,btw I upgraded to Win8 from Win7 on three different PCs,all working fine,nothing wrong with it IMHO and very easy to use.

Don't worry you get people making silly dislike threads on Win9,10,11 etc..nothing changes whenever a new OS is released,try not to speak for the rest of the population because you can't ,only for yourself.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Seems like a troill post to me,would be nice if we just had one thread for those that dislike it,btw I upgraded to Win8 from Win7 on three different PCs,all working fine,nothing wrong with it IMHO and very easy to use.

Don't worry you get people making silly dislike threads on Win9,10,11 etc..nothing changes whenever a new OS is released,try not to speak for the rest of the population because you can't ,only for yourself.

Geeks don't count. You like it because its a new OS and it has new toys.

But Go and get a non geek who uses Windows 7 and plop them infront of Windows 8 and say have at it. See how long they will like it.

For 90% of the population Windows 8 offers no compelling reason for someone to Upgrade, especially when it takes a big step backwards in usability.

Office,internet,games,image editing etc.. work perfectly fine in Windows 7.

 

[Kristijonas]

Geeks don't count. You like it because its a new OS and it has new toys.

But Go and get a non geek who uses Windows 7 and plop them infront of Windows 8 and say have at it. See how long they will like it.

For 90% of the population Windows 8 offers no compelling reason for someone to Upgrade, especially when it takes a big step backwards in usability.

Office,internet,games,image editing etc.. work perfectly fine in Windows 7.

Every new OS has it's learning curve. You don't just *plop* someone in front of a new OS and expect them to understand everything. Give them a good hour to play around and explain things. THEN ask if they still don't like it and feel confused. I'd bet only trolls and sheer haters would find W8 to still be hard to use.
Then, when people learn how to use the new OS, they will begin to see that the new W8 OS is faster in HDD and CPU processes, it generally feels snappier and uses less operating memory. W8 has integrated archive and dick image reader, better security, finds most latest drivers by itself on install, better task manager, great language support (my friend can now use japanese without installing additional software). The list of pros of W8 is very long, but most of those improvements are very specific. Most can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8

An OS is the most difficult part of software in existence. Don't expect everyone to understand it intuitively without learning first. W7 was around for a long time so we've got used to it. But W7 is not based upon a philsophical universal principle UI, either.

 

[Maximilian]

"I disagree with this so it must be a troll post!"

 

[Tom]

Troll post? Has all the markings...

You mean your post is a troll post..adds nothing.

Here's the thing, its great that there are people who are happy with W8. The or 4 things that bother some of us may not bother you, but it isn't a case of you're right and anyone who disagrees just hasn't given W8 long enough..

1. Hidden menus,items,etc. To me there's only one good reason to hide things, to get more screen real estate for some useful function. Hiding things for stylistic reasons or to make things "simpler", I don't agree with. Like hiding the menu bar in IE..doesn't make it easier, it means you have to remember what key to press to get to basic functions. But at least its possible to unhide the menu bar in IE.

2. No Start menu. Its great some of you don't mind, never used it in W7, etc,etc. That doesn't change the fact that there's no good reason for not having it. And btw, the Start menu was and is one of the better things about Windows UI, takes up very little room, is very intuitive, and very useful.

3. No Aero. Sure, make your new trendy flat design the default if you want..but why do away with Aero as an option ? Battery life ? Baloney.

All of these things are a matter of opinion of course.

 

[pmv]

You mean your post is a troll post..adds nothing.

Here's the thing, its great that there are people who are happy with W8. The or 4 things that bother some of us may not bother you, but it isn't a case of you're right and anyone who disagrees just hasn't given W8 long enough..

1. Hidden menus,items,etc. To me there's only one good reason to hide things, to get more screen real estate for some useful function. Hiding things for stylistic reasons or to make things "simpler", I don't agree with. Like hiding the menu bar in IE..doesn't make it easier, it means you have to remember what key to press to get to basic functions. But at least its possible to unhide the menu bar in IE.

2. No Start menu. Its great some of you don't mind, never used it in W7, etc,etc. That doesn't change the fact that there's no good reason for not having it. And btw, the Start menu was and is one of the better things about Windows UI, takes up very little room, is very intuitive, and very useful.

3. No Aero. Sure, make your new trendy flat design the default if you want..but why do away with Aero as an option ? Battery life ? Baloney.

All of these things are a matter of opinion of course.

Agree entirely. Will also add that I personally am not a fan of relying heavily on keyboard shortcuts, because I still remember the pre-GUI days when you had to have a crib sheet with a long list of them for your editor or other software. Been there once, was glad to move on.

Its curious how many unreasoned and rather pointless posts there are on both sides on this topic though. Some of the pro-8 posts read like bland generic marketing speak ('takes the user interface to the next level'), while, to be fair, there are also uselessly non-specific posts from haters ('it sucks!' 'one device doesn't have good drivers yet, so win8 is rubbish and always will be').

If we were dealing with a lesser (or much smaller) company than MS I'd have suspected the former of being actual shills - but I don't think for a moment that sort of shilling is MS's style. They play ruthlessly but, not in that low-rent cheap-ass way (other companies however...). Instead, its as if people somehow absorb marketing-speak cliches and then regurgitate them. Perhaps just in reaction to the more extreme anti-8 posts?

 

[Kristijonas]

I agree with you, Tom. I like the W8 UI, but I believe users should have been left the choice of it.

pmv, do you count me among those marketing-cliche absorbents? Because I like W8 from the first boot of Release Preview (without reading anything about it).

dick image reader

Can't believe no one noticed. Laughed a couple of seconds while rereading. Not going to edit.

 

[trooper11]

I think one thing people quickly forget when trying to say that since they hate Windows 8, then all the general users will hate it too. That is simply untrue.

Alot of the issues talked about on forums like this stem from changing features that, lets face it, most general users paid little attention to.

I happen to work in the field of computer sales and so far people have been fine with windows 8 on a new pc, but it requires two things:

1. Show people the differences
2. Let them try out the system after going over the changes

A common theme I see is that most users weren't using the start menu much or at all in windows 7, so that being changed to a full screen experience was not a big deal one way or another. After that, they seemed to pick up the hot corners ui after we would walk them through how they behaved. On any non-touch devices, we make it clear that the metro side is mainly there for the start screen. The rest of that ui can be ignored and you can live in the desktop just fine. Again, I haven't yet seen resistance to the OS once we make those points.

What is amazing to me is how easy people on forums dismiss Win 8 as having any chance in the general market. The reality is that it has a far greater chance of success with that group then it does the power user group. Its as if people can't see past their own needs or wants from an OS.

The big drag on Win 8 right now is a serious lack of hardware to sell people that have touch screens. OEM's are having serious supply issues and that means we can offer very few tablets, touch screen monitors, touch screen ultrabooks, or touch screen all-in-one models (which is a pretty popular style by the way). Being able to show off the complete Metro side via touch is something new that grabs the attention of many people, but you cant do that if you dont have the hardware to sell. OEMs really need to catch up.

 

[pmv]

I think one thing people quickly forget when trying to say that since they hate Windows 8, then all the general users will hate it too. That is simply untrue.

Alot of the issues talked about on forums like this stem from changing features that, lets face it, most general users paid little attention to.

I happen to work in the field of computer sales and so far people have been fine with windows 8 on a new pc, but it requires two things:

1. Show people the differences
2. Let them try out the system after going over the changes

A common theme I see is that most users weren't using the start menu much or at all in windows 7, so that being changed to a full screen experience was not a big deal one way or another. After that, they seemed to pick up the hot corners ui after we would walk them through how they behaved. On any non-touch devices, we make it clear that the metro side is mainly there for the start screen. The rest of that ui can be ignored and you can live in the desktop just fine. Again, I haven't yet seen resistance to the OS once we make those points.

What is amazing to me is how easy people on forums dismiss Win 8 as having any chance in the general market. The reality is that it has a far greater chance of success with that group then it does the power user group. Its as if people can't see past their own needs or wants from an OS.

The big drag on Win 8 right now is a serious lack of hardware to sell people that have touch screens. OEM's are having serious supply issues and that means we can offer very few tablets, touch screen monitors, touch screen ultrabooks, or touch screen all-in-one models (which is a pretty popular style by the way). Being able to show off the complete Metro side via touch is something new that grabs the attention of many people, but you cant do that if you dont have the hardware to sell. OEMs really need to catch up.

Are people saying it has no chance 'in the general market'? I can't help thinking you are making a bit of a straw-man argument.

What I mostly see are people saying it will struggle in the corporate, "productivity" and hard-core desktop user (including gamer) markets. The general market is precisely where people will probably accept it - that includes most tablet users, after all, and Metro is clearly intended for tablets.

Not least because that market tends to just take what its given, if it has the right brand name and if it is what is actually on the shelves in their local store.

 

[smakme7757]

My wifes uses it just fine and she's just a normal run of the mill PC user. But it's true, they whole "hiding the UI in the corner" adds another layer of complexity. With that being said My wife and i are happily on Windows 8. Although i still haven't migrated my laptop due to driver problems.

All these threads banter on about the same things. We really just need a Windows 8 "Dislike thread" other wise the forums will fill up with threads complaining about the exact same thing over and over. Kind of like the whole "3570K vs the 3770K" thing in the CPU section. Heaps of threads - same discussion.

 

[cboath]

You mean your post is a troll post..adds nothing.

Here's the thing, its great that there are people who are happy with W8. The or 4 things that bother some of us may not bother you, but it isn't a case of you're right and anyone who disagrees just hasn't given W8 long enough..

1. Hidden menus,items,etc. To me there's only one good reason to hide things, to get more screen real estate for some useful function. Hiding things for stylistic reasons or to make things "simpler", I don't agree with. Like hiding the menu bar in IE..doesn't make it easier, it means you have to remember what key to press to get to basic functions. But at least its possible to unhide the menu bar in IE.

2. No Start menu. Its great some of you don't mind, never used it in W7, etc,etc. That doesn't change the fact that there's no good reason for not having it. And btw, the Start menu was and is one of the better things about Windows UI, takes up very little room, is very intuitive, and very useful.

3. No Aero. Sure, make your new trendy flat design the default if you want..but why do away with Aero as an option ? Battery life ? Baloney.

All of these things are a matter of opinion of course.

1. I actually agree. However the problem isn't that their hidden or that things have changed. The problem is that they don't tell you that up front. Whether you've used Windows before or a mac or never even seen a computer before, you won't know where to find things. Quite frankly the simplest and smartest thing they could've done is make a start up video that runs on a the first start of a new user (with an option to let it keep appearing on subsequent reboots) that gives you a tour of the interface and how to use it. Would have cost them peanuts and saved a boatload of bad press. So the changes weren't bad at all, but the handling of them was terrible.

2. Clearly i'm on the other side here, but the only 'good' reason to keep the start button around was that it's been there since '95. Frankly, that's not a good enough reason. More to the point, it's still basically there short of all programs.

3. I thought aero was cool and while I miss it, i'm not to the point of complaining about it. It's not like they removed it out of spite. Short of a major incompatibility issue, I can't see why it was removed. Battery life is a joke. Just don't make it a default and when people switch to it, toss up a dialog that says 'this eats batter, fyi'. Still, while there's not much of a good reason for removing it, I can't call it but more than a trivial complaint. IF (big if) it can be reintegtrated, i'd look for it to show up as a free add-on or as part of a service pack with the amount of comments it's gotten.

 

[smakme7757]

Are people saying it has no chance 'in the general market'? I can't help thinking you are making a bit of a straw-man argument.

What I mostly see are people saying it will struggle in the corporate, "productivity" and hard-core desktop user (including gamer) markets. The general market is precisely where people will probably accept it - that includes most tablet users, after all, and Metro is clearly intended for tablets.

Not least because that market tends to just take what its given, if it has the right brand name and if it is what is actually on the shelves in their local store.

From an IT admin point of view i can't see any real urge to deploy Windows 8 to clients or even to move over to Window server 2012 (which is a very nice platform from MS) right away. Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7 are two very good products that do a very good job.

I'm definitely no market expert, but I'd say the take up will be slow with Windows 8 in the corporate market, but it will sell well enough to everyone else.

 

[trooper11]

Are people saying it has no chance 'in the general market'? I can't help thinking you are making a bit of a straw-man argument.

What I mostly see are people saying it will struggle in the corporate, "productivity" and hard-core desktop user (including gamer) markets. The general market is precisely where people will probably accept it - that includes most tablet users, after all, and Metro is clearly intended for tablets.

Not least because that market tends to just take what its given, if it has the right brand name and if it is what is actually on the shelves in their local store.

Maybe not here, but I have seen plenty of posts elsewhere regarding how Windows 8 is and will be a failure overall. My point is simply that its likely that it will not be a failure as long as there is compelling hardware and users get a certain amount of initial assistance getting use to the changes. That isnt any different from going from windows to macs. That's why Apple stores offer classes for new users.


I agree that there will be a slow uptake in the corporate market, but why is that a hit against Windows 8? Have we forgotten that each and every new windows release results in a slow uptake in the corporate market? Windows 7 is just now gaining serious traction as companies replace pcs. Having said that, I can see how windows 8 could be slower than previous transitions due to its more consumer focused ideas, but one thing i have seen is that companies can be influenced by their employees. The whole reason that ipads are being adopted in the corporate market is thanks to the widespread use by its employees. So if 8 is successful on tablets and desktops, that could offset the reluctance. Either way, we are years away from widespread adoption of anything beyond 7 in the corporate market.

I also agree about the hardcore (or power user) segment. I am part of that group and see the sharp devide among us. It would be nice to see MS make adjustments to cater to this group since I doubt people will be changing their opinions. People in this group tend to embrace and opinion and waver very little. If they could just add optional controls so that power users could tailor the experience a bit, it would go a long way to ending the division.

I'm not so sure about the productivity group. That group overlaps with the general users and the power users. I know many people that use a pc to produce something, and yet they are not power users (i.e. they arent interested in knowing or using functions of the os beyond getting their work done). So there could be another split in this group.

Itll be interesting to see how this all works out. MS can do alot to improve 8, so hopefully their new accelerated update schedual will result in fixing the issues that matter most.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Troll post? Has all the markings...

MS apologist? Has all the markings...

 

[VirtualLarry]

For 90% of the population Windows 8 offers no compelling reason for someone to Upgrade, especially when it takes a big step backwards in usability.

Office,internet,games,image editing etc.. work perfectly fine in Windows 7.

This I agree with. Why "fix" something that isn't broken? Change, for the sake of change itself? This isn't a piece of artwork we are talking about, it's an OS, which is supposed to be easy-to-use and allow you to be productive. MS's changes to the UI are none of these things.

 

[trooper11]

I dont know, is windows 8 really hard to use or are we caught up in this storm that has developed online.

Ive seen enough regular users use windows 8 to question the idea that its harder to use for the general user market. Is it different? Sure, but once you explain the differences, my experience is that regular users can adopt it. Again, I'm not saying its easy for everyone. Power users have a much harder time then general users since we actually make use of features beyond the basics.

This release has hurt the power user experience more then anything else.

 

[sze5003]

I got used to it. I never put stuff on my desktop anyway in win 7. They should of gave the option for start menu. Many companies especially in IT still use windows xp anyway. As for the users, Hell making our site work with the new win 8 ie is a pain.

 

[piasabird]

I dont think that there is a compelling reason to purchase Win8 and I dont think all the OEM's should be forcing consumers to get only Win8 either. This is not supply and demand and it is not freedom. This is the abuse of power by a monopoly.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Windows 8 is very simple to use and clean. I like it about as much as I liked XP when I started using it. It does take a little time to adjust to of course, length depending on the user.

I got used to it. I never put stuff on my desktop anyway in win 7. They should of gave the option for start menu. Many companies especially in IT still use windows xp anyway. As for the users, Hell making our site work with the new win 8 ie is a pain.

I could see where that would be the case. Many sites I visit ask me to install the latest Flash in the built in browser in Metro for some reason, whereas I can launch Mozilla FF and the flash will fire right up.

 

[Linflas]

Agree entirely. Will also add that I personally am not a fan of relying heavily on keyboard shortcuts, because I still remember the pre-GUI days when you had to have a crib sheet with a long list of them for your editor or other software. Been there once, was glad to move on.

Its curious how many unreasoned and rather pointless posts there are on both sides on this topic though. Some of the pro-8 posts read like bland generic marketing speak ('takes the user interface to the next level'), while, to be fair, there are also uselessly non-specific posts from haters ('it sucks!' 'one device doesn't have good drivers yet, so win8 is rubbish and always will be').

If we were dealing with a lesser (or much smaller) company than MS I'd have suspected the former of being actual shills - but I don't think for a moment that sort of shilling is MS's style. They play ruthlessly but, not in that low-rent cheap-ass way (other companies however...). Instead, its as if people somehow absorb marketing-speak cliches and then regurgitate them. Perhaps just in reaction to the more extreme anti-8 posts?

Probably nothing more than wanting to appear to be young and with it and not opposed to changes. Funny thing is I am no longer young and could care less about being with it and think Tom hit the nail right on the head. I am using Windows 8 and dealing with the differences but the whole Metro thing is just wasted on me in the desktop environment, I turn on my computer, login, and immediately go to the desktop. I am sure if I was working on a Surface or other tablet with the Metro interface it would be very useful but on a non-touch screen desktop it is useless to me. The point made with IE and the menu bar is a great example, I use it all the time and am glad that MS has not removed it just because their "vision" no longer includes it.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Probably nothing more than wanting to appear to be young and with it and not opposed to changes. Funny thing is I am no longer young and could care less about being with it and think Tom hit the nail right on the head. I am using Windows 8 and dealing with the differences but the whole Metro thing is just wasted on me in the desktop environment, I turn on my computer, login, and immediately go to the desktop. I am sure if I was working on a Surface or other tablet with the Metro interface it would be very useful but on a non-touch screen desktop it is useless to me. The point made with IE and the menu bar is a great example, I use it all the time and am glad that MS has not removed it just because their "vision" no longer includes it.

Honestly, I think what you are seeing is the general user actually enjoying the new Metro UI as my wife loves it and people like us being more unhappy with it because it often can make the more advanced things we do more difficult in some ways. I've learned that I really would rather have a much better general experience at the expense of minor difficulties with the more advanced stuff we do. I have also found that most of the stuff I use can be pinned to Metro so it really isn't as inconvenient as it seemed.

Granted, I am not trying to hack a Gibson or anything, but most all of the core Windows components can be pinned right to the Metro UI for easy access. I think a lot of what you're seeing in this forum is the wannabe ZeroCools and young kids bitching because they don't want to pay for another OS already, or can't, or they just want to look cool in the tech forum by jumping on the bandwagon.

My wife and I both agree that we are very happy to have moved on to Windows 8 because that same old desktop UI they've been using for 15 years was getting very long in the tooth, and this UI is much cleaner and more efficient when you really learn to use it properly....even with a mouse.

 

[joe_H]

I just call it Windows 7 SP2 now. After installing StartIsBack, and even putting the original Win7 wallpaper back on, it looks and feels just like Win7. However, I still get the under the hood improvements of Win8. Haven't even seen Metro in weeks.