3800+ X2 vs 4200+ X2

[lopri]

Originally posted by: TheGingerbreadGenius
This thread is so close to what I was going to post I'll do it here instead if that's allowed...

I'm looking to build a new PC to satisfy my gaming ego (right now I'm stuck on an 800Mhz AMD with a Gforce 4. Not pretty.) and I'm dithering as to a processor. I'll be going AMD since I simply refuse to buy Intel on ethical grounds etc. I'd originally planned to get a 4000+ single core or whatever AMD 64bit single core processor I could afford (I'm looking on www.overclockers.co.uk at the moment). I'm fairly sure I can afford a 4000+, but then I noticed that the difference price-wise between that and a 3800+ Dual core is less than £5.

The thing with the PC I'm building is that I really don't want to have to upgrade much for quite a while. Mainly because it's not my cash. My parents aren't gonna want to even HEAR about a PC budget after this. So, with future-proofing in mind, which is the wiser choice: The 3800X2 or the 4000+?

I reckon I'll mostly be gaming on this thing, though I DO want to get the most out of it I can, so I'll be teaching myself how to programme in a few languages as well and might even start mucking around with stuff like The GIMP, but I won't be doing it all that much at the same time.

How is the 3800X2 for gaming? From what I'm reading here it's pretty good, but I'm curious as to how it fares against a 4000+. It does worse I'm guessing, but not by a huge amount. In short:

Would the 3800X2 do well enough in games nowdays (paired with a 7800GT) to keep me happy for a while and when Dual Core optimised applications come out will it still be comparatively fast enough to kick ass and chew bubblegum? 'Cos I don't want to buy the 4000+ now and be left weeping when Dual Core optimised stuff leaves it behind in the dust.


I am probably looking to OC this stuff, but I'd like to see how they perform against each other without OCing first 'cos the OCing isn't guaranteed.


First post too. I'm basically just here to ask Qs from time to time and learn from this place.

Yes the choice is clearly resounding "X2 3800+". I believe there was a test done at FiringSquad.com, where trying to find the CPU/GPU limitation trend in various games. As long as your CPU speed is over 2.0GHz (AMD), the benchmark results are almost identical at resolution at 1280x1024 and above. What matters in gaming is the GPU. And you'll get the tremendous amount of smoothness from dual core - I switched, and won't look back. And unless you're terribly unlucky you'll be able to overclock it a bit then you have yourself 2x4000+. (pretty much guaranteed)

 

[Veech]

Originally posted by: lopri

So if you want to save and enjoy some awesome overclocking (not guaranteed, however - especially with A8N-SLI), go with the 3800+. If your budget allows and you want a better futureproff along with a peace of mind, go with 4400+.

lop

ooo... What's wrong with the A8N-SLI, that was my board of choice. Will it not OC the X2 3800+? Dont forget, I'm using Corsair's value RAM as well. I won't OC unless it's a slam dunk, hate fiddling with settings.

 

[videoclone]

Originally posted by: Veech
Hi all,

I'm a heavy gamer and am looking to upgrade my system.
Thanks...

Maybe you should get out and do some exercise, lose some of that weight
then get back into the gaming .. may improve your reflexes. And overall noob pawning abilities. .. " Your welcome "

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Veech

Originally posted by: lopri

So if you want to save and enjoy some awesome overclocking (not guaranteed, however - especially with A8N-SLI), go with the 3800+. If your budget allows and you want a better futureproff along with a peace of mind, go with 4400+.

lop

ooo... What's wrong with the A8N-SLI, that was my board of choice. Will it not OC the X2 3800+? Dont forget, I'm using Corsair's value RAM as well. I won't OC unless it's a slam dunk, hate fiddling with settings.

A8N-SLI Premium is probably easier to set up than DFI SLI-DR. Less initial hassle for sure. A8N-SLI Premium is incredibly stable at stock speed, and even at overclocking (to a point) I'd say getting 2400MHz out of 3800+ with it should be easy. But you know, once you reach previous unthinkable, you naturally conceive a higher goal. We all do, right?

Then the problem begins with this board. The culprit being the VCore fluctuation. (w/ X2) Once you up your voltage over 1.4, it starts dancing around! Later BIOS barely touches on this issue and you're bound to give more VCore than necessary for your OC, due to the fluctuation.

lop

 

[tuteja1986]

AMD 3800 X2 are good overclockers and i recommend getting the new ATI/ULI chipset if you can unless you are USB Device freak. Also AMD 3800 X2 are good overclockers and oc to 2.6Ghz with decent cheap Cooler. The cpu will do what ever you want with it and also can beat high end Intel Dual core in major test. AMD 4200 X2 seem to me like a little waste of money and i would buy it if i could get it cheaper than current going rate.

 

[TheGingerbreadGenius]

Cheers for the help people...

So, I'm a little confused: I've had one person tell me that it'll perform exactly like a single 3200, yet others tell me that it gives smoother performance etc. Am I right in thinking that (basically) in benchmarking etc and 'lab conditions' a 3800x2 is the same as a 3200, but in practice/ real life it'll perform better because it can cope more easily with background apps etc?

How big would the gaming difference be between a 3800x2 and a 'normal' 4000? Assuming they're both running on the same Gfx and RAM...

Finally: OK, so this news about how easy it is to OC a 3800x2 is making me happy because it'll be my first time OCing. I take it that OCing it to the level of a 4000X2 is while keeping it stable/ not decreasing the lifetime of the CPU in anyway?

 

[Shenkoa]

Originally posted by: Veech
*ACK* I just realised... I purchased 2x 1GB Corsair VS1GB400C3 sticks, the cas3 value stuff. I called them and they said the VS stuff is less inclined to support OC'ing than their XMS sticks.. but of course the price difference to get XMS costs the same (or more) than the difference between a 3800+ and a 4200+.

Damn!

So all of this talk of overclocking the 3800+, is that done with plain ol' vanilla cas3 DDR400 RAM? Or does it require the fancy stuff?

OH GOD GET THE CAS 2.5!!!! my friend had the Cas3 VS and he could not OC worth a damn. When I put my 2.5 in, voila, it could of been just his memory. But dont chance it.

 

[keitaro]

Originally posted by: TheGingerbreadGenius
Cheers for the help people...

So, I'm a little confused: I've had one person tell me that it'll perform exactly like a single 3200, yet others tell me that it gives smoother performance etc. Am I right in thinking that (basically) in benchmarking etc and 'lab conditions' a 3800x2 is the same as a 3200, but in practice/ real life it'll perform better because it can cope more easily with background apps etc?

How big would the gaming difference be between a 3800x2 and a 'normal' 4000? Assuming they're both running on the same Gfx and RAM...

Finally: OK, so this news about how easy it is to OC a 3800x2 is making me happy because it'll be my first time OCing. I take it that OCing it to the level of a 4000X2 is while keeping it stable/ not decreasing the lifetime of the CPU in anyway?

For games that hasn't been coded much with hyperthreading in mind, it'll perform exactly like its single-core (3200+) counterpart. If you look through some benchmark numbers with the X2 3800+, you'll see that those games will perform more or less like it. However...

The games that makes little or some use of hyperthreading, or have some additional threads running within the game, you'll find the X2 to be faster. It won't be by a large margin but it'll be statistically faster.

As for overclocking, view my sig. It's a decent overclocker and you should be guaranteed at least a modest speed bump to 2.2GHz (thus matching the 4200+ speed). With better heatsinks (like the Zalman I use), you should be able to push it to at least 2.4GHz (4600+ speed). As long as the CPU is cooled decently, it'll last you long enough until your next system, or until a natural disaster hits. But your worry of shortened CPU lifespan brings up a curious question... who still have a running Celeron 300A @ 450MHz?

 

[fatty4ksu]

They are both decent. Not much difference imo.

 

[biostud]

I'm going to assemble the rig in my sig this afternoon

 

[jutetrea]

Great thread and thanks for the info... i've fallen behind on the hardware side of things and have been feverishly catching up on vid/processors.

I've had the same 1.33 ghz AMD for 5yrs now, adding ram and replacing vid cards as necessary (RAD 9800 current)... but looking to get a new system now.

I've budgeted $2k for it but willing to go a bit over... just because I might pick up an Alienware box... I don't really feel like building my own system again and local shops are only about $100-$300 cheaper than AW and I don't get the bells n' whistles.

For budget reasons I'll probably go with the 7800 GT vs teh GTX, although I'm leaning

The big question is a 3800 x2 or a 4000+. From this thread alone it seems the 3800 is fine, and will be more useful in the future (hypothetically). And it seems that OC'ing (OC noob here) isn't that difficult, but not guarenteed.

Hypothetical systems:
Aurora 7500
3800+ x2
7800 GT
2 gb DDR PC-3200
liquid cooling/video cooling
Alienware® nForce?4 SLI? Chipset Motherboard PCI Express
650 W PSU
160 GB HD
Audigy 2
DVD burner/CD burner
$2,549
(Local shop 2,567 - coolermaster case instead and no liquid cool, but with 7800GTX)

Aurora 5500
Aurora 7500
4000+
7800 GT
2 gb DDR PC-3200
liquid cooling/video cooling
Alienware® nForce?4 SLI? Chipset Motherboard PCI Express
650 W PSU
160 GB HD
Audigy 2
DVD burner/CD burner
$2,206 (includes $200 current rebate)
($2,277 from local shop no liquid cool, but with GTX)

I've checked Falcon northwest/dell/voodoo and they are all way more expensive.

So from my limited research, and not wanting to build the system myself... I'll probably end up paying the slight premium for Alienware because of the bells and whistles (liquid cooling, video cooling, cool case, QA) and deal with the negatives of a shipped (free!) system.

My decision comes down to that pesky $300 and performance questions between the 3800 x2 and 4000+. I guess if overclocking works... I could hypothetically have the 3800+ turn into two 4000+'s...correct? I also might just bail out and go for a more budgeted system with a 6800GT and a lower processor for about $1500, but probably with one of the above. The ship date for the AW system is like 2+ weeks which sucks too, but most local shops are estimating 7 days anyways.. whatever.

Thoughts? And how easy is it to OC a 3800X2? Anyone have any clue about the above motherboard? Anyone have any previous experience with Alienware and their nifty bells and whistles?

Thanks

 

[jutetrea]

In reference to the above... Opteron chips, there seemed to be a bit of discussion on how great they overclocked. Has anyone had any gaming experience with an Opteron chip? How'd it go? They also seem a bit pricey, and I haven't looked into how the vid card/motherboard/processor relationship works out.

 

[keitaro]

Originally posted by: jutetrea
Thoughts? And how easy is it to OC a 3800X2? Anyone have any clue about the above motherboard? Anyone have any previous experience with Alienware and their nifty bells and whistles?

Depending on how you intend to use the system, you can go with either processor. However, it's good to take note that future games will be making some more use of dual-core processors or at least support it to the extent that it doesn't exhibit any odd behavior in-game. My opinion says to go with the X2 3800+ and save yourself an upgrade piece.

I do not know much about the motherboard you have chosen. But I do know that it shouldn't be difficult to get that X2 3800+ two grades higher (and then some) with that H2O.

Other than that, the rest is entirely up to you. It'll be a good rig. Wish I can get that kind of hardware.

 

[jutetrea]

From what I've been reading I guess as your not real unlucky you can OC the 3800 pretty easy. In that case I'll probably go with that. And once OC'd it handles most current programs pretty well, and anything that takes advantage of the dual... very well.

Not sure about the Alienware, getting antsy on the price. Unfortunately they wont put the x2 3800 in the Aurora 5500 system, so that'll jack the price up more than the actual price difference of the 4000+ and the x2 3800. I'm gonna wait till the supposed AMD price drop filters out the the different vendors and see what happens.

The rig is mostly going to be used for gaming and standard MS Office stuff

 

[Madellga]

Originally posted by: keitaro

Originally posted by: TheGingerbreadGenius
Cheers for the help people...

So, I'm a little confused: I've had one person tell me that it'll perform exactly like a single 3200, yet others tell me that it gives smoother performance etc. Am I right in thinking that (basically) in benchmarking etc and 'lab conditions' a 3800x2 is the same as a 3200, but in practice/ real life it'll perform better because it can cope more easily with background apps etc?

How big would the gaming difference be between a 3800x2 and a 'normal' 4000? Assuming they're both running on the same Gfx and RAM...

Finally: OK, so this news about how easy it is to OC a 3800x2 is making me happy because it'll be my first time OCing. I take it that OCing it to the level of a 4000X2 is while keeping it stable/ not decreasing the lifetime of the CPU in anyway?

For games that hasn't been coded much with hyperthreading in mind, it'll perform exactly like its single-core (3200+) counterpart. If you look through some benchmark numbers with the X2 3800+, you'll see that those games will perform more or less like it. However...

The games that makes little or some use of hyperthreading, or have some additional threads running within the game, you'll find the X2 to be faster. It won't be by a large margin but it'll be statistically faster.

As for overclocking, view my sig. It's a decent overclocker and you should be guaranteed at least a modest speed bump to 2.2GHz (thus matching the 4200+ speed). With better heatsinks (like the Zalman I use), you should be able to push it to at least 2.4GHz (4600+ speed). As long as the CPU is cooled decently, it'll last you long enough until your next system, or until a natural disaster hits. But your worry of shortened CPU lifespan brings up a curious question... who still have a running Celeron 300A @ 450MHz?

I have a Celeron 300A. It was running for a long time @450 - but funny, the mainboard (Asus) failed before the Celeron