4 raptors in a raid?

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

I think this thread would be very useful to you... I didn't bother with doing RAID 1 though. But as you can see, RAID 5 isn't too far behind RAID 0 (the fastest) on my controller.
Tas.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

MrBob, I think you're overestimating the speed increase of a Raptor... Did you upgrade anything else when you bought your Raptor? It should give you a bit of an increase, but not something really noticeable. 4 Raptors in RAID 10 is probably the worst idea ever. There are MUCH better solutions out there...

1. Get another Raptor and mirror the 2. Get 2 250GB drives and mirror them.
2. Sell the Raptor, buy 3 large drives and a controller card, and run RAID 5.
3. Sell the Raptor, buy 3 large drives, use the onboard RAID 5, and upgrade your CPU.

Any one of those solutions would be better than RAIDing 4 Raptors...

 

[kitkat22]

MrBob, I apoligize for making a poor analogy with the cars. It was late and I have a 6 week old who likes to fight sleep I finally figured out what you were doing, sorry for making it worse

I was comparing benchmarks on HD's at http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2454&p=1 and it appears that the WD 1600JS is a worthy competitor with the Raptor actually beating, matching or being slightly under the Raptor. I especially focused on the content creation benchmarks. If you do that you would only need two drives, instead of four. There would be less heat, less power draw, more space and essentially equivalent speed. In addition it only costs $88 essetially two of these equals one Raptor. Just another thought to throw in the mix

Also, I do hope you do plan on performing backups at least once a month. I know you are looking into mirroring and such, but if this data is that important you should look into a backup system, tape, DVD, server or whatever. Maybe not now but definitely in the future. All it takes is one storm or one thief and it wouldn't matter how much mirroring you have.

Edited

 

[Mr Bob]

"I think this thread would be very useful to you... I didn't bother with doing RAID 1 though. But as you can see, RAID 5 isn't too far behind RAID 0 (the fastest) on my controller. "
- But I don't care for a performance gain in RAID, I wanted it simply to make sure my data is still ok, if one single drive dies.

"MrBob, I think you're overestimating the speed increase of a Raptor... Did you upgrade anything else when you bought your Raptor?"
- No, maybe you should try some raptors for a change, see how much better they perform. I didn't upgrade anything else after getting the raptor. The only changed variable in my sysem was the raptor itself, thus being the item that made the increase.

"1. Get another Raptor and mirror the 2. Get 2 250GB drives and mirror them. "
- This won't work because I will only have 74gb of space on the raptor, I already own one and only have 1gb of space left.

"2. Sell the Raptor, buy 3 large drives and a controller card, and run RAID 5. "
- I'm not sure where the benefit would be here, I read over raid 5, it does give a slight performance gain, but the data is not mirrored.

"3. Sell the Raptor, buy 3 large drives, use the onboard RAID 5, and upgrade your CPU. "
- I'm going to squeeze out the money for the 4400 insteadof the 3800. It appears that the 4400 kills the 3800 in common business apps.

"Any one of those solutions would be better than RAIDing 4 Raptors... "
- The first one doesn't make sense in my case, not sure about the 2nd one, and the 3rd just seems like a splitoff of the 2nd.

"it appears that the WD 1600JS is a worthy competitor with the Raptor actually beating, matching or being slightly under the Raptor."
- However, in some of those benchmarks, the raptor is 50+ greater than the competitor. When the raptor loses, it is only be <1.

"Also, I do hope you do plan on performing backups at least once a month. I know you are looking into mirroring and such, but if this data is that important you should look into a backup system, tape, DVD, server or whatever."
- My 250gbs are going to be for storage, and backups. I'm only going to backup the stuff I need, programs and such will still be on CD, downloaded ones will continue to stay in my ever growing programs folder.

Thx for the suggestions

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

You have 74GB worth of apps and OS files?!?! If not, why not use option #1 and switch some of those over to the mirrored 250GB drives to free up some space? Also, RAID 5 provieds great data security even without mirroring... If you have a 3 drive array, if 1 dies, your data is still intact. If you have a 4 drive array and 1 dies, then your data is still intact. I don't see your problem with RAID 5...

 

[Mr Bob]

"You have 74GB worth of apps and OS files?!?! If not, why not use option #1 and switch some of those over to the mirrored 250GB drives to free up some space?"
- The raptors are for the files that I will be USING, not just programs and OS. All of my data files need to be on the fast drive. All the backups can go on the 250s since there is no reason for me to access it all the time. I have around 45 GB of data, and the rest are programs/os. This is after I uninstalled a 3gb program, that I wish I could still use.

"I don't see your problem with RAID 5... "
- With raid 5, I don't have 74 x 2 amount of space, since I am already using up the 70gb, (I have like 1gb left), I can't start my new machine with no space.

 

[Mr Bob]

I'm going to make a new post for suggestions on the sata raid controller.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

So your problem is you want the speed of a Raptor for everything... And you want them mirrored, and 2 MIRRORED BACKUP DRIVES?! Okay, this is the craziest idea I've ever heard, and it's a huge waste of money... You'll have enough speed with a 4400+. You don't need more. That's like saying, I have a really fast Ferrari. It can only seat 2 people. I want a car that can seat 4 people with the speed of a Ferrari... With RAID 5, you can make a big array of like 500GB, transfer the Raptor's files over to the RAID 5, then sell the Raptor... The speed should be about as fast as a Raptor. Also, you don't need mirrored backup drives if your data is already going to be mirrored...

 

[Rubycon]

nv/m I was thinking of something else...

 

[Mr Bob]

"So your problem is you want the speed of a Raptor for everything... And you want them mirrored, and 2 MIRRORED BACKUP DRIVES"
- I want two raptors in a raid so that I will have 74 x 2 amount of space, and then completely mirrored for redundancy. The backup drives might not be mirrored, dunno yet, but I am not worried about those.

"The speed should be about as fast as a Raptor."
- Prove it. You are clearly missing something. Maybe you should read some reviews on the raptors. They even beat the 15krpm SCSI (Altec or Alanta? something like that) in a few tests.

" Don't buy the LSi MR SATA controller the chip hasabug that tends to hose your data. "
- Have a suggestion on one that will work? Plz discuss in this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=1701854

 

[Rubycon]

Better of with SCSI raid sorry.

 

[Mr Bob]

" Better of with SCSI raid sorry. "
- Oh ok. Then you can show me an equal performance of the raptors, at the same price or less? Very doubtful.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
" Better of with SCSI raid sorry. "
- Oh ok. Then you can show me an equal performance of the raptors, at the same price or less? Very doubtful.

a 15krpm hdd will own any 10krpm hdd in seek times, that is where the extra 5krpm comes in. that is why you like your raptors, because they are snappy and that is why i like my 10krpm scsi hdd. unfortunately the 15k rpm hdds cost a lot and you need a lot of space

but, it depends on which benchmarks you look at. there are newer 7200rpm hdds that beat the raptors in str, but the raptor will beat it in seek times and probably i/o intense applications.

unfortunately with this stuff you can not have your cake (ie, large amount of hdd space) and eat it to (10-15krpm raptor/scsi speeds) for the prices you want, which really sucks.

imo, the best setup would be a 3xraid5 raptors (fault tolerant, which will give you ~147GB) mated with a pair of 250-500GB hdds in raid 1.

i have thought about your situation and desires and this is the best i can come up with to satisfy the need for speed (me to, especially hdd), space and cost.

 

[Mr Bob]

"a 15krpm hdd will own any 10krpm hdd in seek times, that is where the extra 5krpm comes in. that is why you like your raptors, because they are snappy and that is why i like my 10krpm scsi hdd. unfortunately the 15k rpm hdds cost a lot and you need a lot of space
- True, but what is funny is that the raptor actually beat some 15K rpm drives in a few tests. I know I won't find something reasonable, which is why I said 'very doubtful'. I doubt we'll see an update from him.

"unfortunately with this stuff you can not have your cake (ie, large amount of hdd space) and eat it to (10-15krpm raptor/scsi speeds) for the prices you want, which really sucks. "
- Sitting here freaking hungry, and you gotta word it like that?!!!

"imo, the best setup would be a 3xraid5 raptors (fault tolerant, which will give you ~147GB) mated with a pair of 250-500GB hdds in raid 1. "
- So if one drive dies I can still be online and running? RAID 5 is also faster than the 0+1 that I was thinking about, right?

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
"a 15krpm hdd will own any 10krpm hdd in seek times, that is where the extra 5krpm comes in. that is why you like your raptors, because they are snappy and that is why i like my 10krpm scsi hdd. unfortunately the 15k rpm hdds cost a lot and you need a lot of space
- True, but what is funny is that the raptor actually beat some 15K rpm drives in a few tests. I know I won't find something reasonable, which is why I said 'very doubtful'. I doubt we'll see an update from him.

"unfortunately with this stuff you can not have your cake (ie, large amount of hdd space) and eat it to (10-15krpm raptor/scsi speeds) for the prices you want, which really sucks. "
- Sitting here freaking hungry, and you gotta word it like that?!!!

"imo, the best setup would be a 3xraid5 raptors (fault tolerant, which will give you ~147GB) mated with a pair of 250-500GB hdds in raid 1. "
- So if one drive dies I can still be online and running? RAID 5 is also faster than the 0+1 that I was thinking about, right?

from what i have read yes and others have backed this up that have used it. you will still have the seek times of the raptors(most, i am sure there is a little bit of a slow down with going this way, but it would be there regardless of what you did with a raid and will be small) and have 147GB so that should be enough for a while hopefully for you.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I say the best solution is to just get another Raptor, mirror it, then store the rest on mirrored 250GB drives. You won't be needing more speed when you have a 4400+...

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
I say the best solution is to just get another Raptor, mirror it, then store the rest on mirrored 250GB drives. You won't be needing more speed when you have a 4400+...

the op has stated numerous times he needs more than 74GB for his system drive. if he needs more than 74GB then he needs it. if he does anytype of video work, 74GB is nothing as uncompressed minidv is 13GB/hr, thus the reason to get 3x74GB raptors in raid 5 and netting him 147GB with fault tolerance, then use the other 250+GB hdds for storage.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
" Better of with SCSI raid sorry. "
- Oh ok. Then you can show me an equal performance of the raptors, at the same price or less? Very doubtful.

Who cares about cost when you NEED performance? Can't afford it then probably don't NEED it just like most kids that want 600bhp under the hood but only *need* 60.

That is why SCSI exists because there is a NEED for it.

Buy your raptors, a 3Ware, take a deep breath, sip some brandy and be happy! Life is good so enjoy it while you can.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
I say the best solution is to just get another Raptor, mirror it, then store the rest on mirrored 250GB drives. You won't be needing more speed when you have a 4400+...

the op has stated numerous times he needs more than 74GB for his system drive. if he needs more than 74GB then he needs it. if he does anytype of video work, 74GB is nothing as uncompressed minidv is 13GB/hr, thus the reason to get 3x74GB raptors in raid 5 and netting him 147GB with fault tolerance, then use the other 250+GB hdds for storage.

He said his Raptor isn't just his system drive, and that he stores other files on it too...

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
I say the best solution is to just get another Raptor, mirror it, then store the rest on mirrored 250GB drives. You won't be needing more speed when you have a 4400+...

the op has stated numerous times he needs more than 74GB for his system drive. if he needs more than 74GB then he needs it. if he does anytype of video work, 74GB is nothing as uncompressed minidv is 13GB/hr, thus the reason to get 3x74GB raptors in raid 5 and netting him 147GB with fault tolerance, then use the other 250+GB hdds for storage.

He said his Raptor isn't just his system drive, and that he stores other files on it too...

yes, files that need to be accessed quickly and without delay. it is imo that regardless the op wants raptors, thus the reason i am giving him the best solution with the raptors. if it were me i would do 1 15k u320 36GB scsi system hdd (if my os and apps would fit on it, or a 10k 74GB system hdd, or in the ops case the raptor) then move all of my data files to a 3x500GB raid 5 array giving me 1TB of fault tolerant storage with good speeds. then backup the system drive daily via acronis true image(which has a scheduler function)

 

[Mr Bob]

"Who cares about cost when you NEED performance? Can't afford it then probably don't NEED it just like most kids that want 600bhp under the hood but only *need* 60."
- Me and everyone else that doesn't have money they can waste.... You're right, I don't need a $100,000 computer!

"That is why SCSI exists because there is a NEED for it. "
- Yes, for those who don't mind throwing down $2k on harddrives, you're right. The raptors have even beaten some 15k SCSI drives!

bob4432 actually understand, thanks

Is this a good enough PSU to power my setup here

It will be 3 raptors, 2 dvd drives, a fan controller, 2 250gb drives, 6600gt card x2 4000+ cpu, msi neo4 plat mb, and 2gb corsair ram.

Also, with the raid 5, if one drive dies, I can still use the drives, right? Also, once the new drive comes in, I can simply put it back into the array and it will be up and working agian?

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Okay, 3 Raptors in RAID 5 is at least better than your 4 Raptor RAID 1+0 solution...

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
"Who cares about cost when you NEED performance? Can't afford it then probably don't NEED it just like most kids that want 600bhp under the hood but only *need* 60."
- Me and everyone else that doesn't have money they can waste.... You're right, I don't need a $100,000 computer!

"That is why SCSI exists because there is a NEED for it. "
- Yes, for those who don't mind throwing down $2k on harddrives, you're right. The raptors have even beaten some 15k SCSI drives!

bob4432 actually understand, thanks

Is this a good enough PSU to power my setup here

It will be 3 raptors, 2 dvd drives, a fan controller, 2 250gb drives, 6600gt card x2 4000+ cpu, msi neo4 plat mb, and 2gb corsair ram.

Also, with the raid 5, if one drive dies, I can still use the drives, right? Also, once the new drive comes in, I can simply put it back into the array and it will be up and working agian?

you have to understand and verify what generation of scsi hdds they were comparing it to. the newest gen 15krpm scsi hdds i think beat it at everything, but you pay out the a$$ for one of those. this is just an fyi, and besides the main reason you go 15k over 10k is seek times (at least in a desktop enviornment).

as far as the psu, i think that would be good and i would personally buy it.

as for just putting the hdd in the system and it will wok i am not sure. make sure to backup your data because you are going to have need to setup the raid controller to do raid 5 and sometimes the controller makes you format the drives. somebody else can inform me of this.

 

[Mr Bob]

"as far as the psu, i think that would be good and i would personally buy it. "
- Yippie!

"as for just putting the hdd in the system and it will wok i am not sure. make sure to backup your data because you are going to have need to setup the raid controller to do raid 5 and sometimes the controller makes you format the drives. somebody else can inform me of this."
- What I want to know is that my setup will still work once a drive is dead (which seems to be true from when I asked earlier), but after it dies, and I get a new drive, does it have to reformat the entire raid array, or does it rebuild it, or what?

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
"as far as the psu, i think that would be good and i would personally buy it. "
- Yippie!

"as for just putting the hdd in the system and it will wok i am not sure. make sure to backup your data because you are going to have need to setup the raid controller to do raid 5 and sometimes the controller makes you format the drives. somebody else can inform me of this."
- What I want to know is that my setup will still work once a drive is dead (which seems to be true from when I asked earlier), but after it dies, and I get a new drive, does it have to reformat the entire raid array, or does it rebuild it, or what?

it is suppose to be rebuilt and that is what tas said his experience was. but, i have not done it myself so i am not sure how long it would take.