6800GS AGP

[Missing Ghost]

The inquirer reports that an AGP version of the 6800GS is coming.

http://theinquirer.net/?article=28094

 

[Therk]

old.

 

[hans007]

seeing as this is nv40 core, it should be unlockable to faster than 6800gt speeds since the memory is 6800gt speed and the core is 6800 ultra speeds.

 

[forumposter32]

can you unlock pipes on a 6800 gs PCI-E?

 

[Wolfshanze]

seeing as this is nv40 core, it should be unlockable to faster than 6800gt speeds since the memory is 6800gt speed and the core is 6800 ultra speeds.

Ummm... in a word... NO.

The 6800GS has 12-pipes, the 6800GT and 6800U have 16-pipes... there will be no unlockable pipes on the 6800GS (they will be physically cut). Higher clock speeds are NOT as important as 4-extra pipes... the 12-pipe 6800NU is faster then the higher-clocked 8-pipe 6600GT... those pipes are far more important then clock speed.

In short, a higher clocked 12-pipe 6800GS is NOT as fast as a lower-clocked 16-pipe 6800GT, nor can it be made faster.

 

[golem]

You should read some reviews. In almost all cases, the 6800 gs is just about as fast as a 6800GT at stock. With overclocking it should be faster than a stock 6800gt. 6800 gs pci-e are based on a core design with 12 pipes. There's nothing to unlock. the AGP version is rumored to be based on a 16 pipe core. If the pipes were laser cut (physically), then you can't unlock. But since this product hasn't even been released yet. No one knows currently if there were laser cut.

 

[Wolfshanze]

You should read some reviews... 6800 gs pci-e are based on a core design with 12 pipes. There's nothing to unlock. the AGP version is rumored to be based on a 16 pipe core.

I did read some reviews... you should read what I was responding to...

seeing as this is nv40 core, it should be unlockable to faster than 6800gt speeds

The PCI-E is NOT based on the nv40 core, so your point and the reviews you mention are meaningless... we're talking about the nv40 core which ONLY is pertinent to the AGP card, so PCI-E matters have nothing to do with what I stated. The 6800GS AGP card uses the SAME core as the 6800GT, but with four physically cut pipes (you should read some info on the AGP version of the card). It's higher clocked, but missing the pipes... since it's built on the SAME core as the 6800GT, and NOT a differant core (like the PCI-E 6800GS), you can expect similar, but still slower speeds then the 6800GT. There will be no pipes to unlock on the 6800GS, it will still be at a 4-pipe disadvantage.

Also, I always love how folks say "though card-X starts-off slower then card-Z, if you overclock card-X it will be faster"... there's a "duh" factor that goes in here... what happens if you also overclock card-Z... doesn't it then keep it's margin of superiority?

The AGP 6800GT will still be faster then the 6800GS at stock, or if both are overclocked. The differance is that the 6800GS is a better bargain price-wise, and obviously more easily purchaseable since they cancelled the entire 6800 line (other then the GS). Being cheaper and more available still doesn't make it faster though.

People always talk about overclocking the GS to make it faster then a GT... they always fail to mention you can overclock a GT too (not to mention the 4-pipe advantage of the GT)!

NVidia is naming the card the "GS" and not the "GTX" for a reason you know.

 

[edplayer]

Originally posted by: WolfshanzeThe 6800GS AGP card uses the SAME core as the 6800GT, but with four physically cut pipes (you should read some info on the AGP version of the card).

Where did you learn that some pipelines will be physically cut from the rumored upcoming 6800gs agp?

 

[Nextman916]

Originally posted by: edplayer

Originally posted by: WolfshanzeThe 6800GS AGP card uses the SAME core as the 6800GT, but with four physically cut pipes (you should read some info on the AGP version of the card).

Where did you learn that some pipelines will be physically cut from the rumored upcoming 6800gs agp?

It can be assumed from what nvidia did with the 7800gt's and from what people have been saying. Of course he doesnt know exactly if they are to be or not, do you think anyone really does? Does anyone at the AT forums actually work for Nvidia? If so would they leak this type of information? You know he doesnt know for sure your just trying to be an a$$ about it.

 

[CalamitySymphony]

Hmm? The 6800GS = 6800 Ultra GO. When clocked high enough, it definately beats the 6800GT and = Ultra.

 

[rmed64]

In short, a higher clocked 12-pipe 6800GS is NOT as fast as a lower-clocked 16-pipe 6800GT, nor can it be made faster.

Um I think you need to look at the benchmarks in games. 6800GS is on par with 6800GT 98% of the time.

 

[johnnqq]

for the last time, the gs doesn't have "cut" or even unlockable pipelines. the card simply doesn't haev 16 pipes, only 12.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

seeing as this is nv40 core, it should be unlockable to faster than 6800gt speeds since the memory is 6800gt speed and the core is 6800 ultra speeds.

Ummm... in a word... NO.

The 6800GS has 12-pipes, the 6800GT and 6800U have 16-pipes... there will be no unlockable pipes on the 6800GS (they will be physically cut). Higher clock speeds are NOT as important as 4-extra pipes... the 12-pipe 6800NU is faster then the higher-clocked 8-pipe 6600GT... those pipes are far more important then clock speed.

In short, a higher clocked 12-pipe 6800GS is NOT as fast as a lower-clocked 16-pipe 6800GT, nor can it be made faster.

pci-e 6800 and 6800gs are based on the nv42 core (which is pcie native with no converter). these have 12 pipes.

the agp 6800gs will be based on the nv40 core (as it is agp native). you cannot CUT a pipe, as obviously you would have to disable a quad. this is done after testing, as you do not know which quad i sbad. seeing as the nv40 is on a pretty good process, i doubt anything is actually wrong, and you're probably a bios flash away.

it is merely a stopgap xmas time measure to have something against the x800gto2 anyway. they probably are making it a 12 pipe artificially so that people dont just buy it instead of a 7800 gt. at $199 or whatever they plan to sell it for a 12 pipe 425/1000 and potentially 425/1000 16 pipe card would be a great card.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Hans, let me know when you successfully unlock 4-extra pipes on the 6800GS that aren't there to unlock.

The 6800GT is still factory-set, a faster card then the 6800GS... whether that's 100% of the time or 2% of the time, it's STILL the faster card... once again, those talking about overclocking the 6800GS seem to think you can't overclock a 6800GT... news-flash, you can overclock BOTH, so a 6800GT is still going to be faster then the 6800GS regardless.

I have never argued the 6800GS is going to be easier to obtain or at a better price point... I've never ONCE mentioned that... I have only stated the obvious (and NVidia knows this too, hence the naming convention of the card)... the 6800GS is still slower then the 6800GT. It doesn't matter if it's half the speed or 1% slower... it's STILL SLOWER.

The main reason will be the 4-pipe disadvantage that will NOT be unlockable (AGP or PCI-E). The extra pipes become even more noticeably missing when you push things like AA up several notches.

 

[Eureka]

Still, does anyone know when it'll be coming out?

Norm

 

[Wolfshanze]

Still, does anyone know when it'll be coming out?

Any day now from what I understand (if it's not already out). It will be a good card (never denied that either).

 

[NoStateofMind]

If someone sees this card please post link! thanks.


The Surgeon

 

[Piuc2020]

If the 6800GS AGP is like the PCI-E version in terms of overclocking and clock speeds then its going to be equal to a 6800GT (okay so the 6800GT is one frame faster, WOOT, its worth like 200$ more just for that), even when AA and high resolutions have been put the 6800GS managed to stay competitive with the 6800GT (by competitive I mean a 1-3fps margin), it also overclocked much better. See your logic on overclocking works except you miss the fact some cards overclock better, the 6800GS when overclocked nicely can reach some insane speeds that put it above the 6800 Ultra, the 6800GT can be oced to 6800 Ultra speeds but not much more, that would mean that even overclocked the 6800GS would be better.

But since the 6800GS AGP is based on the 130nm NV40 I'm guessing its overclock limits will top out at the same settings a 6800Ultra and 6800GT did, still can't wait for this card.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze
Hans, let me know when you successfully unlock 4-extra pipes on the 6800GS that aren't there to unlock.

The 6800GT is still factory-set, a faster card then the 6800GS... whether that's 100% of the time or 2% of the time, it's STILL the faster card... once again, those talking about overclocking the 6800GS seem to think you can't overclock a 6800GT... news-flash, you can overclock BOTH, so a 6800GT is still going to be faster then the 6800GS regardless.

I have never argued the 6800GS is going to be easier to obtain or at a better price point... I've never ONCE mentioned that... I have only stated the obvious (and NVidia knows this too, hence the naming convention of the card)... the 6800GS is still slower then the 6800GT. It doesn't matter if it's half the speed or 1% slower... it's STILL SLOWER.

The main reason will be the 4-pipe disadvantage that will NOT be unlockable (AGP or PCI-E). The extra pipes become even more noticeably missing when you push things like AA up several notches.

all i was saying is that

the 6800gs pci-E uses the nv42. it is not unlockable.

the 6800GS agp, uses the nv40 chip which all AGP 6000 series cards use. the non pro 6800s use the exact same chip as the 6800GS and have 12 pipes and are indeed unlockable.


the only chips that have the 4 pipes actually physically not there (and not just disabled like the nv40) are the nv41/nv42 which are only used in the pci-e 6800 and pci-e 6800gs cards.

thus all chip that are 68xx series agp use the nv40 with no bridges. and the pci-E 68xx cards have either an nv40+bridge , or nv41/nv42 with no bridges and only 12 pipes in the silicon.

i dont even have an agp motherboard. but im saying it is more than likely that the nv40 based 6800gs will have unlockable potential , just like nv40 based 6800s did.

just the difference is the 6800gs agp will be 425/1000 clocks, whcih would put it more or less at 6800ultra speeds if you can sucessfully unlock it (and i think you will be able to, as it will likely just be a bios thing)

 

[Slaimus]

Why not just get the 6800 AGP and unlock that? It is much cheaper if you do not need the 256MB

 

[Wolfshanze]

Why not just get the 6800 AGP and unlock that? It is much cheaper if you do not need the 256MB

The 6800NU is a great card for the money, no doubt. It's ability to unlock 4-pipes and go faster is just icing on the cake.

Do realize there are two issues which always make leave the NU at a slight inferiority to it's pricier brothers.
#1) It has half the memory... something that can become a factor with higher AA & resolution settings.
#2) The memory type is inferior on the 6800NU (it doesn't use DDR3).

Still, it's a great card for the money... if you're looking to save bucks the 6800NU is a good steal... though the pending release of the 6800GS (with 256MB of DDR3 memory at a great price point) will make the 6800NU less attractive (not to mention the fact that NVidia has ceased production of all non-GS 6800 chipset cards).

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Slaimus
Why not just get the 6800 AGP and unlock that? It is much cheaper if you do not need the 256MB

yeah the memory is ddr1 bga. its usually good for about 800-820mhz. core could probably get you in the 400s so you're pretty close to GT speeds there.

you can get a 6800 plain with 256 mb memory too, on a really good deal say $150 or so it might be worth looking into, as i could see the 6800gs agp being over $200 as agp seems to cost more than pci-e these days.

 

[Hiruko]

Are there any updates on how much this card will cost or when it will be available?

 

[Wolfshanze]

The AGP 6800GS is supposed to retail for the same price as it's PCI-E counterpart. So far we've seen almost all AGP cards cost more then their PCI-E counterparts, so it will be interesting to see if NVidia and it's board partners keep this promise.

 

[jmke]

guess what.. the AGP version will be clocked lower than its PCIe counterpart.

the AGP 6800GS core will be running at 350Mhz instead of 425Mhz !

that makes it only a wee bit faster (in core clock) than the standard 6800.