9/11 consipracy movie

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I already saw most of this movie. It was called Fahrenheit 911. Spelling could be off there.

yeah. firefighter accounts of distinctive bomb blasts in the wtc towers is surely the work of michael moore.

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: Xylitol
This thing got moved back into OP??? lol
OT -> Locked -> P&N -> OT

Yeah, it seems some mod here has a problem with independant people analyzing 9/11 and contradicting the Bush (international serial killer) appointed 9/11 commission.

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I firmly believe that conspiracy theorists have it right.

Their minds were freed by an elite and secretive organization founded in the 60's called FTARD. The freeing of their minds is done through consumption of lead paint chips which were selectively placed in their bedrooms when they turn two. The leader of this movement, Dr. C. Everrett Koop, selects only those minds who are ready to be freed to see the truth for what it is. These people are then trained and taught to utilize the freedom of thought their lead paint chip ingestion imparted upon them to seek out, identify and expose conspiracies all over the world.

:roll:

just because not all of us accepts everything the media tells us as absolute truth, it does not mean we have ingested lead paint chips.


so you HONESTLY believe it was pure coincidence that the building collapsed COMPLETELY within itself leaving almost NO damage to surrounding buildings?

does that fact not surprise anyone else?

Without looking at any of the evidence or thinking about it too deeply, it does seem like a bit of a coincidence.

Consider that once the planes hit, they exploded spreading burning jet fuel accross the entire floor. The burning jet fuel then compromised the entire structure fairly uniformly until it collapsed upon itself.

Seems fairly reasonable to me.

According to Occam's Razor, we are done. Creating a convoluted story about how explosives were placed in advance and managed to not detonate when half the building was burning at a billion degrees and were then detonated at an appropriate time according to plan as laid out in a government conspiracy to create public support for a war for oil

Everything you say is very nice, but in Loose Change Second Edition you can hear firefighters recordings from inside the WTC in which they say that they are about to gain control of the fires, they are on the same floor as the main fires. And you will see examples of fires in other buildings of the same type that raged for more than 24 hours (real red infernos of extremely hot fires, not "cool" black smoke fires like on 9/11) without collapse. If you want to see and hear all that:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

 

[Pliablemoose]

DSM-IV-TR currently defines delusional disorder with the following criteria:

* Criterion A: One or more nonbizarre (ie, involving situations that could occur in real life) delusion(s) is present for at least 1 month.

* Criterion B: Criterion A for schizophrenia has never been met. (Auditory and visual hallucinations may be present but are not prominent, while tactile and olfactory hallucinations often are present if related to the delusional theme.)

* Criterion C: Apart from the impact of the delusion, functioning is not impaired markedly, and behavior is not obviously bizarre.

* Criterion D: Mood episodes that may have occurred are relatively brief relative to the delusional periods.

* Criterion E: The disturbance is not due to the direct effects of a substance or a general medical condition.

* Subtypes are defined, including erotomanic, grandiose, jealous, persecutory, somatic, mixed, and unspecified.

Epidemiological study regarding delusional disorder is difficult because of a number of factors. Although thought to be relatively uncommon, delusional disorder is not a rare condition. Diagnostic definitions historically have been poorly defined, and patients with the diagnosis rarely seek psychiatric help. The following epidemiological information is commonly accepted:

* Prevalence is low but not rare and is estimated at 0.025?0.03%, clearly different than generally accepted prevalence rates for schizophrenia (1%) or mood disorders (5%). Delusional disorder may account for 1-2% of admissions to inpatient psychiatric hospitals.

* Age at onset ranges from 18-90 years, with a mean age of 40 years.

* More females than males are represented in most samples (male-to-female ratio is ~0.85:1), but the difference is less than in mood disorders (male-to-female ratio is ~0.5:1).

* The presence of the disorder is associated with being married and employed, recent immigration, and low socioeconomic status.

* The natural course is considered variable, with improvement of delusional symptoms in 10%, remission in 33-50%, and persisting symptoms in 30-40% of cases. Onset can be acute or progressive. Patients with the acute and jealous subtypes may have a better prognosis.

* Familial transmission is suspected and comorbidity is not uncommon.

* Significant diagnostic overlap exists with paranoid personality disorder, although long-term studies indicate that delusional disorder is a distinct entity when compared with depression and schizophrenia. Data suggest that among patients diagnosed with delusional disorder, less than 25% are later reclassified as schizophrenic and less than 10% are later diagnosed with a mood disorder.

* The literature suggests that most paranoid or delusional presentations are not the result of schizophrenia or delusional disorder but, rather, the result of other conditions, including substance-associated syndromes and medical conditions.

ETIOLOGY

The cause per se is unknown. Delusional disorder theoretically represents a heterogeneous group of conditions that seems distinct from mood disorders and schizophrenia. Family studies show increased prevalence of delusional disorder and paranoid personality traits in relatives of delusional disorder probands but no association with mood disorders or schizophrenia. Longitudinal studies suggest that the disorder is stable and reclassified as a mood disorder or other psychotic disorder only 10-25% of the time.

Biological

Delusions can be a feature of a number of biological conditions, suggesting possibly biologic underpinnings for the disorder. Most commonly, neurological lesions associated with the temporal lobe, limbic system, and basal ganglia are implicated in delusional syndromes. Neurological observations indicate that delusional content is influenced by the extent and location of brain injury. Prominent cortical damage often leads to simple, poorly formed, persecutory delusions. Lesions of the basal ganglia elicit less cognitive disturbance and more complex delusional content. Right posterior cerebellar lesions are associated with misidentification syndromes. Excessive dopaminergic and reduced acetyl cholinergic activity have been linked to the formation of delusional symptoms.

Psychological

Psychological explanations of delusions present 3 ways of viewing the phenomena of delusions.

* Delusions as defensive: Sigmund Freud proposed that delusions serve a defensive function and protect the patient from intrapsychically unacceptable homosexual impulse through the use of reaction formation, projection, and denial.

* Delusions as the result of cognitive defects: In the 1950s, Eilhard von Domarus emphasized the use of flawed logic in the manufacturing of delusions. Patients are observed to accept ideas with too little evidence for their conclusions.

* Delusions as the result of abnormal perceptual experience: In the 1970s, Brendan Maher described delusions stemming from abnormal perceptual experience due to central nervous system (CNS), peripheral nervous system, or environmental cues. Delusions were described as created to deal with these abnormal phenomena.

Social/other

Norman Cameron defined social situations with the following characteristics as contributing to the development of delusional disorder: expectations of receiving sadistic treatment, distrust and suspicion, social isolation, jealousy, lowered self-esteem, people seeing their own defects in others, and rumination over meaning and motivation.

Associated risk factors that suggest other avenues in the pathogenesis of delusions include advanced age, social isolation, group delusions (eg, in the McCarthy era), low socioeconomic status, premorbid personality disorder, sensory isolation (particularly deafness), recent immigration, family transmission, head injury, and substance abuse disorders.

 

[LtPage1]

whoa...

I think we've got another JFK assassination on our hands. Maybe we'll learn the truth (or whether we already know the whole truth) in 20 years, but I doubt it.

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
whoa...

I think we've got another JFK assassination on our hands. Maybe we'll learn the truth (or whether we already know the whole truth) in 20 years, but I doubt it.

Yes, but it is important to decide now what is the truth about 9/11, because those who did it may do much worse to avoid being framed, like exploding an atomic bomb in a US city and blame Bin Laden for it (how convenient that they let him escape), and enforce Martial Law. People did not fight to send to jail those who killed JFK, MLK, RFK, and now they pay for it. Being a critical spectator is not enough.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I firmly believe that conspiracy theorists have it right.

Their minds were freed by an elite and secretive organization founded in the 60's called FTARD. The freeing of their minds is done through consumption of lead paint chips which were selectively placed in their bedrooms when they turn two. The leader of this movement, Dr. C. Everrett Koop, selects only those minds who are ready to be freed to see the truth for what it is. These people are then trained and taught to utilize the freedom of thought their lead paint chip ingestion imparted upon them to seek out, identify and expose conspiracies all over the world.

:roll:

just because not all of us accepts everything the media tells us as absolute truth, it does not mean we have ingested lead paint chips.


so you HONESTLY believe it was pure coincidence that the building collapsed COMPLETELY within itself leaving almost NO damage to surrounding buildings?

does that fact not surprise anyone else?

Without looking at any of the evidence or thinking about it too deeply, it does seem like a bit of a coincidence.

Consider that once the planes hit, they exploded spreading burning jet fuel accross the entire floor. The burning jet fuel then compromised the entire structure fairly uniformly until it collapsed upon itself.

Seems fairly reasonable to me.

According to Occam's Razor, we are done. Creating a convoluted story about how explosives were placed in advance and managed to not detonate when half the building was burning at a billion degrees and were then detonated at an appropriate time according to plan as laid out in a government conspiracy to create public support for a war for oil

Everything you say is very nice, but in Loose Change Second Edition you can hear firefighters recordings from inside the WTC in which they say that they are about to gain control of the fires, they are on the same floor as the main fires. And you will see examples of fires in other buildings of the same type that raged for more than 24 hours (real red infernos of extremely hot fires, not "cool" black smoke fires like on 9/11) without collapse. If you want to see and hear all that:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

who said the fire took out the buildings? if you cripple one floor's structure, it will more than likely be unable to support the weight above, causing it to collapse. for each level that fails, more and more weight has to be supported for the structure to remain standing. i don't buy the whole "controlled demolition" thing because when that occurs, you have TONS of explosions that can easily be seen.

oh yeah, did anyone know that "eyewitness testimony" is often the most unreliable evidence in a criminal case?

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I firmly believe that conspiracy theorists have it right.

Their minds were freed by an elite and secretive organization founded in the 60's called FTARD. The freeing of their minds is done through consumption of lead paint chips which were selectively placed in their bedrooms when they turn two. The leader of this movement, Dr. C. Everrett Koop, selects only those minds who are ready to be freed to see the truth for what it is. These people are then trained and taught to utilize the freedom of thought their lead paint chip ingestion imparted upon them to seek out, identify and expose conspiracies all over the world.

:roll:

just because not all of us accepts everything the media tells us as absolute truth, it does not mean we have ingested lead paint chips.


so you HONESTLY believe it was pure coincidence that the building collapsed COMPLETELY within itself leaving almost NO damage to surrounding buildings?

does that fact not surprise anyone else?

Without looking at any of the evidence or thinking about it too deeply, it does seem like a bit of a coincidence.

Consider that once the planes hit, they exploded spreading burning jet fuel accross the entire floor. The burning jet fuel then compromised the entire structure fairly uniformly until it collapsed upon itself.

Seems fairly reasonable to me.

According to Occam's Razor, we are done. Creating a convoluted story about how explosives were placed in advance and managed to not detonate when half the building was burning at a billion degrees and were then detonated at an appropriate time according to plan as laid out in a government conspiracy to create public support for a war for oil

Everything you say is very nice, but in Loose Change Second Edition you can hear firefighters recordings from inside the WTC in which they say that they are about to gain control of the fires, they are on the same floor as the main fires. And you will see examples of fires in other buildings of the same type that raged for more than 24 hours (real red infernos of extremely hot fires, not "cool" black smoke fires like on 9/11) without collapse. If you want to see and hear all that:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

who said the fire took out the buildings? if you cripple one floor's structure, it will more than likely be unable to support the weight above, causing it to collapse. for each level that fails, more and more weight has to be supported for the structure to remain standing. i don't buy the whole "controlled demolition" thing because when that occurs, you have TONS of explosions that can easily be seen.

oh yeah, did anyone know that "eyewitness testimony" is often the most unreliable evidence in a criminal case?

In one of the documentaries about 9/11, you can hear one of the architects of the WTC 1&2 explaining that WTC 1 & 2 were not at all built to react like you say. Rather they had a mesh structure: he explains that those towers were built to react to a plane crash the way a mesh door would react to a pencil making a hole into it. Nothing would happen to the solidity of the structure. And the the 48 huge core columns could not be affected the way they were on 9/11 by a single plane, not even by several planes, he says. Only explosives could bring them down, since they were not touched by fuel.
The documentary "Confronting the Evidence -A call to reopen the 911 investigation" (NOT copyrighted) contains a very thorough analysis of the WTC collapses (from 39:50 on).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9124194186333362123&q=9%2F11+reopen

And many squibs could be seen, a clear indication of a controlled demolition.

But the absolute proof noone can deny is this video of four explosions in the WTC: you can see and hear them! =>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=eyewitness
Watch it and then come back and dare tell me there were no explosions before the collapses!

About "eyewitness testimony": when JFK was assassinated, at first many testimonies said that a shot had come from the grassy knoll, but under pressure from policemen and TV, many of them changed their valid testimonies to conform to the official lie. I believe all the live testimonies recorded on 9/11 reporting explosions in the WTC before the collapses.

 

[ironk]

i just don't understand why building 7 collapsed. No plane hit that...

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: ironk
i just don't understand why building 7 collapsed. No plane hit that...

http://www.wtc7.net/contents.html

It contained thousands of sensitive SEC files that many corrupt friends of this administration wanted destroyed.

 

[Pliablemoose]

The Collapse: An Engineer's Perspective

From PBS/NOVA Of course, PBS is in on it, they're federally funded, and the Bush admin & Karl Rove saw to it that PBS said it was the terrorists & the 2 planes.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion

Originally posted by: ironk
i just don't understand why building 7 collapsed. No plane hit that...

http://www.wtc7.net/contents.html

It contained thousands of sensitive SEC files that many corrupt friends of this administration wanted destroyed.

Pretty much

 

[Votingisanillusion]

PBS: Petroleum BS.

I prefer CSPAN sometimes:
http://www.c-spanstore.org/shop/index.p...roduct_video_info&products_id=187857-1
http://www.c-spanstore.org/shop/index.p...roduct_video_info&products_id=187857-2
http://www.c-spanstore.org/shop/index.p...roduct_video_info&products_id=188134-1
http://www.c-spanstore.org/shop/index.p...o_info&products_id=186335-1&template=4
Available on emule. Or there for Griffin:
http://www.911busters.com/911_new_video_productions/index.html

There is that one, too:
C-SPAN- Judicial Watch News Conference with FBI Special Agent Robert Wright
rtsp://cspanrm.fplive.net/cspan/idrive/ter053002_judicial.rm
Former FBI counter-terrorism agent Robert Wright claims that the agency inhibited his probes into terrorist groups

Many videos few people know about, there: http://www.911busters.com/
Like: 1st International Citizen's Inquiry into 9-11 held in San Francisco March 2004

DC Emergency Truth Convergence, July, 2005

9-11 Awareness Exercise 4th of July '05

Citizens' Commission on 9/11

Misc. Audio / Video Evidence Exposing the 9-11 Cover Up

LA Citizens' 9-11 Grand Jury, Oct. 2004

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Wow, I'm speechless. You'd be stupid to doubt that jets hit the WTC, but where's the plane that hit the Pentagon?

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: sheik124
Wow, I'm speechless. You'd be stupid to doubt that jets hit the WTC, but where's the plane that hit the Pentagon?

Ask the military-intelligence-industrial complex! Its power is out of control, and has been for a long time:

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961:

<< A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. >>

I am watching 9-11 Perspectives now, in which a Brigadier General who worked in the White House under Eisenhower says that "he realized he was losing control" and that the military-industrial complex "was not going to be in the best hands". Other specialists explain that the creation of the NSC and the CIA meant the creation of a state within the state, without democratic oversight. Absolute power. Corrupts absolutely.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Votingisanillusion, tell us a little about yourself, I notice your profile isn't enabled.

Where do you live; what do you do for a living; that kind of stuff.

Anyone else want to know more about Votingisanillusion?

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: slash196
Just a question to pose; I had heard that air-traffic control "radar" is not in fact radar, but rather relies on the transponder of the aircraft to know where it's position was. So in theory an aircraft broadcasting a "737" transponder signal would show up as such on air traffic radar, whether or not it actually was. Can someone confirm or deny this?

They turned the transponders off so it wouldn't be broadcasting.

 

[TraumaRN]

Whatever this guy is smoking....I want some of it.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

lol a missile is fired jus before impact......lol this is great, he can glean all this from poor quality Standard definition american cable TV at 24fps or less and some dudes handy cam work. hilarious

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
lol a missile is fired jus before impact......lol this is great, he can glean all this from poor quality Standard definition american cable TV at 24fps or less and some dudes handy cam work. hilarious

I agree. I recommend you watch Loose Change 2nd Edition; it got rid of these dubious theories based on low quality videos:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change
The majority of its content is very convincing.

I also suggest that you watch this new documentary, 911 Eyewitness, which includes footage in which you can see and hear four bombs exploding in the WTC before the collapse:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=eyewitness
Like Zapruder, by chance this guy had his video camera positioned in the perfect place, which let him capture what happened much better than most TV crews, which were all in the same place.

 

[BW86]

bookmarked.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

he even answers his own questions in the film

first hes on about there being hardly any large debris at the pentagon saying that there was no way it was a 737 or whatever, then later when talking about a plane crash says that the crash left a creater and debris no longer than a few feet.

i mean ive seen a F4 or something like it beign fired into a 6ft+ concrete wall....im sure you have all seen it.....theres nothing left.

heheheheh this bits the best

" she heard an explosion.....like an atomic bomb" yeah because shes experienced one of those and lived hasnt she

the bit about the passport is wacky though

 

[JDrake]

I watched the whole thing
it makes u wonder

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
he even answers his own questions in the film

first hes on about there being hardly any large debris at the pentagon saying that there was no way it was a 737 or whatever, then later when talking about a plane crash says that the crash left a creater and debris no longer than a few feet.

i mean ive seen a F4 or something like it beign fired into a 6ft+ concrete wall....im sure you have all seen it.....theres nothing left.

I do not know what happened at the Pentagon, but what happened in N-Y is quite clear: controlled demolitions. The most perfect one being WTC7. We have so many testimonies of people (among them firemen inside the WTC) reporting bombs exploding inside WTC 1&2, plus the documentary 911 Eyewitness which has footage of the explosions before the collapses, and the squibs far from the point of collapse, and the time it took these buildings to collapse (near freefall time),...

 

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
lol a missile is fired jus before impact......lol this is great, he can glean all this from poor quality Standard definition american cable TV at 24fps or less and some dudes handy cam work. hilarious

if you watch the videos even at regular speed, you can definitely see flashes under the wings right before the planes hit.