9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

[Midlander]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Are you still talking? I ignored you the first time since it's common knowledge that mass does not factor into this equation once the towers have started falling.

In 1586, Simon Stevin reported that different weights fell a given distance in the same time. His experiments were conducted using two lead balls, one being ten times the weight of the other, which he dropped thirty feet from the church tower in Delft.

Never done a Falling Bodies Experiment, have we? Now kindly stfu.

You're really making yourself look bad here.

Mass definitely DOES figure into this scenario, since we are talking about a mass's ability to break the floor below it.

If you had 1 floor crashing down on the floor below it, it might not be able to overcome the strength of the lower floor. If you had 3 floors crashing down, they might break the lower floor, but their motion will have been significantly slowed down. If you have 50 floors crashing down on the floor below, they'd easily overcome the strength of that floor, and their momentum would hardly be slowed at all.

In the situation with the towers, a large chunk of the towers began to fall onto the floors below. It didn't start with the top floor and cascade down, it was a pretty large section of tower which crashed down.

Excellent response. Many of the posters on this thread need to gain some understanding of the difference between dead load and live load.

Unless people understand engineering to that limited degree, I suggest they refrain from continuing to post on this subject.

The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering and very disappointing.

 

[Coldkilla]

I suppose the 1000s of people who saw the planes hit were all paid by the government to lie about it too.

 

[alkemyst]

i find it laughable we have gone from 9/11 had no possibility of conspiracy to the us government would never conspire against it's own people.

People think that any conspiracy would have at least one person coming forward. The thing is in a true conspiracy either you know all parties involved are stead-fastly dedicated or the drones you use only know little bits and pieces explained in a way that makes total sense to them.

 

[Beev]

I don't know about all this stuff about a cruise missile and all that jazz, but if you think the government had no idea that the attack was going to happen then you're a fool.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: yllus
Occam's Razor says that the GOP, a group of politicians who couldn't keep their traps shut if they were stapled down, orchestrated the death of 3,000 fellow citizens and managed to keep every single person involved silent.

The CIA, not exactly a stranger to silence, can't keep the existence of overseas prisons a secret.

Yeah. Al Qaeda is the conspiracy theory. If you're a fscking retard.

You confuse politics for reality. Are you saying our government cant keep a secret? They have a long history of doing so quite successfully. You cant see past your television to the real world. You throw up news storys and speculation as a all inclusive blanket exclamation of a much larger picture.
Even if you have a big screen, you are going to have to look past it for the truth, if that is indeed what you are looking for.

 

[imported_ceefka]

Last night I saw a documentary that investigated the plots of "Loose Change".

Their conclusions were based on the findings of engineers/student engineers:

1. WTC 1 and 2 were not brought down by explosives. It's exactly the way you'd expect a construction like that to give way and collapse.
2. The tower that was struck latest collapsed sooner because of the place of impact. It had a larger mass above the floor that suffered the main impact.
3. The collapse of WTC7 a coincidence or something strange indeed.
4. The plane could have hit the Pentagon easily. A guy with only a couple of flight lessons and little experience with a Cessna sat in a flight simulator and flew the alledged course 3 times in a row. The g-forces were no heavier than what you experience in a car.
5. If the gov staged the Pentagon crash with a cruise missle, where is the original plane and its passengers + crew?

I still think the official reading is not as watertight as we'd like it to be. In Bush's defence: it is a difficult time to be president of the USA, especially if you come in second on the lowest IQ

Now that Bush confessed that the foreign CIA prisons exist (actually announcing the international political death of Condoleeza Rice) he has a credibility issue in Europe.

When Rice was in Europe she said that these prisons do not exist and there were no transports of prisoners in that regard. I could tell then she was lying through her teeth because of the unease with which she said it and the look in her eyes.

It has now, for the second time, been established that Osama and Saddam were no friends and certainly not allies, though they have a common enemy.

All'n'all, it's fishy, but so hard to prove anything. Just as hard as it was to prove that Iraq had WMDs by the time they went in the 2nd time.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Sraaz
I don't know about all this stuff about a cruise missile and all that jazz, but if you think the government had no idea that the attack was going to happen then you're a fool.

Nice baseless opinion.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: Sraaz
I don't know about all this stuff about a cruise missile and all that jazz, but if you think the government had no idea that the attack was going to happen then you're a fool.

Nice baseless opinion.

ROFL! You're one to talk.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: yllus
Occam's Razor says that the GOP, a group of politicians who couldn't keep their traps shut if they were stapled down, orchestrated the death of 3,000 fellow citizens and managed to keep every single person involved silent.

The CIA, not exactly a stranger to silence, can't keep the existence of overseas prisons a secret.

Yeah. Al Qaeda is the conspiracy theory. If you're a fscking retard.

You confuse politics for reality. Are you saying our government cant keep a secret? They have a long history of doing so quite successfully. You cant see past your television to the real world. You throw up news storys and speculation as a all inclusive blanket exclamation of a much larger picture.
Even if you have a big screen, you are going to have to look past it for the truth, if that is indeed what you are looking for.

The American government could not keep this secret, as they could not keep a moon landing hoax or JFK assassination a secret. Too many people would need to be involved, and the act is too significant for all of them to have stayed silent. You must be rather invested in Hollywood's fictional portrayal of the G-Man to think otherwise.

Storys? Please tell me you know better than to spell as atrociously as that.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: Sraaz
I don't know about all this stuff about a cruise missile and all that jazz, but if you think the government had no idea that the attack was going to happen then you're a fool.

Nice baseless opinion.

ROFL! You're one to talk.

Did you ever find out what DIAWC means. Here is a hint for you.
Hint.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: Sraaz
I don't know about all this stuff about a cruise missile and all that jazz, but if you think the government had no idea that the attack was going to happen then you're a fool.

Nice baseless opinion.

ROFL! You're one to talk.

Did you ever find out what DIAWC means. Here is a hint for you.
Hint.

Your insults are more pitiful then your arguements, Nomber1. :laugh:

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Chris
A video tape was just released of Bin Laden praising the 19 hijackers by name. Those CIA computers do create synthesis I guess.

oops. can the consperio's see thru the egg on their face??

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: acemcmac
There is a very very plausable case for thermite in WTC 1, 2 and 7 and there were dozens of security cameras aimed at the pentigon that would have shown the impact and ended all of the cruise missile talk that the fed's are refusing to release (hotels, gas stations, etc).

These concerns are not baseless and the feds refusing to do anything to quell them only makes them look like they're really hiding something.

Tell that to American Airlines and thier missing airplane that hit the pentagon. Did the government assasinate the crew?

I wasn't sayng that the cruise missile case was strong. I'm only saying that the government isn't exactly helping the situation by keeping dozens of tapes that would shut everybody up under wraps.

There is no reason for them to release the tapes you say exist because there isn't any question about what happened. There also isn't any reason for you to say there are "dozens" of tapes, you have no idea if there is even one tape that would be relevant that hasn't been released.

But even if there are, the Pentagon isn't your local Walmart store, and there are very legitimate reasons for not releasing information that could compromise security of the Pentagon, particularly when there's absolutely no reason to do so except to placate some wacko conspiracy theorists.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

It is sad to think that half the population thinks that their own government is willing to kill thousand of its own citizens to achieve its foreign policy.

Sad, but most definitely not unprecedented.

First of all 36% isn't "half".

More importantly, the wording of the poll question means that we have no idea what part of the 36% thinks the government was

A. actively involved
B. knowledgable of the attacks but did nothing.
C. thinks the government didn't do a good job preventing the attacks.

Choice C is not an irrational opinion to have, and even though as an answer it doesn't fit the poll question exactly, the fact is that when pollsters ask stupid questions, people will sometimes try to answer a different question than the one asked.

 

[PG]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
There is a very very plausable case for thermite in WTC 1, 2 and 7 and there were dozens of security cameras aimed at the pentigon that would have shown the impact and ended all of the cruise missile talk that the fed's are refusing to release (hotels, gas stations, etc).

These concerns are not baseless and the feds refusing to do anything to quell them only makes them look like they're really hiding something.

read here:

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

 

[ThePresence]

I weep for the future of this country. People will believe anything that makes them feel that the evil government is trying to fool them.
I'm not reading through this whole thread so I don't know if it was posted yet, but Popular Mechanics recently published a book debunking every one of these conspiracy theories one by one.

More here

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I weep for the future of this country. People will believe anything that makes them feel that the evil government is trying to fool them.
I'm not reading through this whole thread so I don't know if it was posted yet, but Popular Mechanics recently published a book debunking every one of these conspiracy theories one by one.

More here

I think the best out there is http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

 

[PG]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I don't believe any conspiracies but I DO KNOW that explosives were used to bring down the WTC Towers. My dad is a physics teacher and shows this to his class as well:
Text

How the explosives got there, I don't know nor care but if you think that "frame was melted by fire" or "collapsed on its own" then you're a moron. The laws of Physics clearly show that it was impossible for the WTC to collapse that fast without explosives.

Tell your dad to read and look at these, especially the first one:

http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/sag.htm

 

[PG]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I don't believe any conspiracies but I DO KNOW that explosives were used to bring down the WTC Towers. My dad is a physics teacher and shows this to his class as well:
Text

How the explosives got there, I don't know nor care but if you think that "frame was melted by fire" or "collapsed on its own" then you're a moron.

So we have fvcking retard #2 and #3 now. But I guess one was bred from the other, so we'll just count them as one.

The fact is, physics can only be applied to structural engineering. It doesn't make an expert of physics an expert of structural engineering. What grade, class, and school does your dad teach any way? There is a huge difference between say a 7th grade physics teacher and a theoretical Physics professor at MIT. Maybe you can provide your dad with more credibility - but I doubt it

He teaches physics at a community college in the summer and 12th grade during the schoolyear, who really cares? The fact of the matter is that 94 floors fell as FAST AS A ROCK (8.4 seconds) would fall through thin air. The laws of Physics will not allow 94 floors of a building to fall on top of each other as fast a rock in thin air unless explosives were involved. If you believe anything otherwise then you are a naive moron and need to take a high school physics class.

Please stop now before you make yourself look worse:

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

"In every photo and every video, you can see columns far outpacing the collapse of the building. Not only are the columns falling faster than the building but they are also falling faster than the debris cloud which is ALSO falling faster than the building This proves the buildings fell well below free fall speed. That is, unless the beams had a rocket pointed to the ground."

 

[PG]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I don't believe any conspiracies but I DO KNOW that explosives were used to bring down the WTC Towers. My dad is a physics teacher and shows this to his class as well:
Text

How the explosives got there, I don't know nor care but if you think that "frame was melted by fire" then you're a moron.

The structure wasn't really melted, just heated unevenly (causing tensions the members wern't designed for) and weakened by the heat. That combined with the damage done by the impacts overloaded the remaing structure. The building wasn't a traditional steel frame skyscraper.

The chief structural engineer for WTC1/WTC2 has been on the news, Nova, and the Discovery Channel to exlpain it. If he accepts that as enough than it is hard to argue with him IMO.

It's still impossible for a building that large to collapse in 8.4 seconds, the time it would take a free falling object to drop unless each and every floor had their joints simultaneously destroyed. Some energy is absorbed as each floor crashes into the next, it's literally impossible without explosives. But the structural engineer didn't have an explanation for that, did he?

You just won't give up will you:

http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm


" Below is the list of people who have staked their reputation on the only paper which passed the scrutiny of peer review regarding the WTC tragedy...

For those who may think no one has written a peer reviewed paper on the collapse of the towers here it is...

"Walter P. Murphy Professor of

Civil Engineering and Materials Science

Northwestern University

The towers of the World Trade Center were designed to withstand as a whole the horizontal impact of a large commercial aircraft. So why did a total collapse occur? The reason is the dynamic consequence of the prolonged heating of the steel columns to very high temperature. The heating caused creep buckling of the columns of the framed tube along the perimeter of the structure, which transmits the vertical load to the ground. The likely scenario of failure may be explained as follows...

http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf

The version linked above, to appear in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics (ASCE), was revised and extended (with Yong Zhou on September 22 and additional appendices on September 28) since the original text of September 13, which was immediately posted at various civil engineering web sites, e.g. University of Illinios. It also has been or soon will be published in a number of other journals, including Archives of Applied Mechanics, Studi i Ricerche, and SIAM News:

Z. P. Bazant and Y. Zhou, "Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?", Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics News, vol. 34, No. 8 (October, 2001).

That means it's not just a document, book, web site or calculation on a forum. It's had to pass critical review by other engineering Professors. "

 

[Gamingphreek]

These conspiracy theories make me sick. It makes me sick that people would make excuses for these terrible people who executed these crimes!!

I can put the cruise missile theory down right this instant though. A family friend is a deputy for my local county sherriffs office. He went up to the Pentagon with some of the other deputies to help out (We live just south of DC). He got back (Obviously barely able to take in what he saw) and described what he did. He helped pull bodies from the Pentagon. What was left of the bodies were duct taped and repeatedly stabbed with a small object (We later believe it to be a box cutter) (Shallow puncture wounds).

Way to disgrace the memories of all these people you conspiracy theorists!

-Kevin

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: yllus
Occam's Razor says that the GOP, a group of politicians who couldn't keep their traps shut if they were stapled down, orchestrated the death of 3,000 fellow citizens and managed to keep every single person involved silent.

The CIA, not exactly a stranger to silence, can't keep the existence of overseas prisons a secret.

Yeah. Al Qaeda is the conspiracy theory. If you're a fscking retard.

You confuse politics for reality. Are you saying our government cant keep a secret? They have a long history of doing so quite successfully. You cant see past your television to the real world. You throw up news storys and speculation as a all inclusive blanket exclamation of a much larger picture.
Even if you have a big screen, you are going to have to look past it for the truth, if that is indeed what you are looking for.

The American government could not keep this secret, as they could not keep a moon landing hoax or JFK assassination a secret. Too many people would need to be involved, and the act is too significant for all of them to have stayed silent. You must be rather invested in Hollywood's fictional portrayal of the G-Man to think otherwise.

Storys? Please tell me you know better than to spell as atrociously as that.

Oh my, I miss-spelled a word! teh horrer!

guess your not looking for the truth, but instead correct spelling :disgust:

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
These conspiracy theories make me sick. It makes me sick that people would make excuses for these terrible people who executed these crimes!!

I can put the cruise missile theory down right this instant though. A family friend is a deputy for my local county sherriffs office. He went up to the Pentagon with some of the other deputies to help out (We live just south of DC). He got back (Obviously barely able to take in what he saw) and described what he did. He helped pull bodies from the Pentagon. What was left of the bodies were duct taped and repeatedly stabbed with a small object (We later believe it to be a box cutter) (Shallow puncture wounds).

Way to disgrace the memories of all these people you conspiracy theorists!

-Kevin

If a large plane were to crash into the Pentagon at over 500mph as the fiction our government feeds us suggests, there wouldn't be bodies of passengers left to pull out, just some small body pieces here and there maybe.

So was your friend pulling bodies of Pentagon workers out? Why would THEY have boxcutter wounds?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: yllus
Occam's Razor says that the GOP, a group of politicians who couldn't keep their traps shut if they were stapled down, orchestrated the death of 3,000 fellow citizens and managed to keep every single person involved silent.

The CIA, not exactly a stranger to silence, can't keep the existence of overseas prisons a secret.

Yeah. Al Qaeda is the conspiracy theory. If you're a fscking retard.

You confuse politics for reality. Are you saying our government cant keep a secret? They have a long history of doing so quite successfully. You cant see past your television to the real world. You throw up news storys and speculation as a all inclusive blanket exclamation of a much larger picture.
Even if you have a big screen, you are going to have to look past it for the truth, if that is indeed what you are looking for.

The American government could not keep this secret, as they could not keep a moon landing hoax or JFK assassination a secret. Too many people would need to be involved, and the act is too significant for all of them to have stayed silent. You must be rather invested in Hollywood's fictional portrayal of the G-Man to think otherwise.

Storys? Please tell me you know better than to spell as atrociously as that.

Oh my, I miss-spelled a word! teh horrer!

guess your not looking for the truth, but instead correct spelling :disgust:

My correction of a spelling mistake third-graders would be expected to avoid was an aside to a serious response. Never mind though, carry on with such wonderful insights as, "You can't see past your television to the real world."

 

[glugglug]

I hadn't heard about the freefall time as the evidence of explosives before, but now that I think about it, it makes sense.

Assuming a close to freefall as possible scenario, where the lower floors that haven't broken already are on the verge of doing so, so the only slowdown they cause the upper floors is transfer of momentum (with zero energy required for the actual breakage), the fall time would be almost doubled, to around 14s instead of 8s. (Will calculate more exactly later, maybe). Since the lower floors weren't even burning, there would be significant energy lost to the breakage as well, and the time should have been more than double, if explosives were not involved.