9800GX2 serious AA problem :! 8xQAA

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: nRollo

1. You don't know when new parts are launching.

Neither do you. All we can do is look at nvidia's history. 7950gx2 sound familiar?

Heck, even a X1950XTX outperformed that tuna sandwich card, nVidia is well known to abandon driver updates/optimizations for older generations of videocards once the new ones are in the market for at least 6 to 8 months, GeForce 6/7 anyone? That's why the ATi cards ages much better, so investing in a GX2 which requires SLI profiles and optimizations is an outrageous waste of money, specially for a card that will not last more than 14 months (Average) after the arrival of new generation of cards and it's driver support will go second priority and then none, and doesn't even support DX10.1 which has been released two days ago.

Driver updates are quite important for optimization/performance improvements in current or future game releases, even the old X800XT with the recent driver updates is able to play Gears of War maxxed at 1024x768 at playable FPS (Over 35-40fps in most cases, rarely dips in the high 20's), before that, the performance of the game with that card with 7.12 was lacking (I never tested 8.1 or 8.2)

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: nRollo

1. You don't know when new parts are launching.

Neither do you. All we can do is look at nvidia's history. 7950gx2 sound familiar?

Heck, even a X1950XTX outperformed that tuna sandwich card, nVidia is well known to abandon driver updates/optimizations for older generations of videocards once the new ones are in the market for at least 6 to 8 months, GeForce 6/7 anyone? That's why the ATi cards ages much better, so investing in a GX2 which requires SLI profiles and optimizations is an outrageous waste of money, specially for a card that will not last more than 14 months (Average) after the arrival of new generation of cards and it's driver support will go second priority and then none, and doesn't even support DX10.1 which has been released two days ago.

Driver updates are quite important for optimization/performance improvements in current or future game releases, even the old X800XT with the recent driver updates is able to play Gears of War maxxed at 1024x768 at playable FPS (Over 35-40fps in most cases, rarely dips in the high 20's), before that, the performance of the game with that card with 7.12 was lacking (I never tested 8.1 or 8.2)

GX2s don't require profiles.

Unlike 3870X2s, a GX2 owner can force any render mode he likes, disable multicard if necessary, create his/her own profiles.

I'm not going to bother discussing years old cards, but you're wrong about them as well.

 

[Keysplayr]

Cookie Monster started a thread on the latest expreview GX2 in depth review.
Here is the link to the review. You want 8xAA? You got 8xAA

They didn't seem to suffer as much as the computerbase article. What was done differently?

Tuteja's opinion of this Expreview review would be nice.

Here is a link to their table for the GX2. Linky Pie

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Cookie Monster started a thread on the latest expreview GX2 in depth review.
Here is the link to the review. You want 8xAA? You got 8xAA

They didn't seem to suffer as much as the computerbase article. What was done differently?

Tuteja's opinion of this Expreview review would be nice.

Here is a link to their table for the GX2. Linky Pie

They did it in two games and going from 1920x1200 4XAA 16XAF to 1920x1200 8XAA 16XAF is about 20% drop.
I'd say it's quite a hit.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Cookie Monster started a thread on the latest expreview GX2 in depth review.
Here is the link to the review. You want 8xAA? You got 8xAA

They didn't seem to suffer as much as the computerbase article. What was done differently?

Tuteja's opinion of this Expreview review would be nice.

Here is a link to their table for the GX2. Linky Pie

Someone does not know how to analysis...

ET Quake War

1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 111.9
3870X2 : 99.7

1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 71.9
3870X2 : 57.6


HL 2 EP2 Timedemo

1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 138
3870X2 : 117.07


1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 107.14
3870X2 : 107.43


1st : They only benchmaked 2 games with 8xAA , 16xAF setting.
2nd : One is Quake war ET :! some how the game now works with Crossfire ... funny.
3rd : Only other game that was benchmarked was a HL 2 EP2 and it was time demo which are usually very highly tweaked by both company. Even then Nvidia had a bigger loose when AA was turned up.


now check the traffic meter for
1. Anandtech.com
2. computerbase.de
3. firingsquad.com
4. en.expreview.com
http://www.alexa.com/data/deta..._details/anandtech.com

At least the Nvidia focus group in computerbase.de is much smarter than one appointed to Anandtech.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

2nd : One is Quake war ET :! some how the game now works with Crossfire ... funny. .

The game works with Crossfire, but not CrossfireX.

I think the X means "Xcludes OpenGL".

Rumor has it they are working on it.

 

[apoppin]

it isn't a "rumor"
- and as you say, it DOES work with Crossfire .. not fully with the 'X' [yet]

NVIDIA is *also* working on their GX2 deficiencies
.. that isn't a rumor either

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

2nd : One is Quake war ET :! some how the game now works with Crossfire ... funny. .

The game works with Crossfire, but not CrossfireX.

I think the X means "Xcludes OpenGL".

Rumor has it they are working on it.

humorers :!

I think anandtech may have posted the wrong result :!

QW ET works with 3870X2 :

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14355/6
http://en.expreview.com/2008/0...er-GeForce-9800GX2/15/

Not Fine :
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=7

 

[SlowSpyder]

I remembered an older thread about this, how the GeForce 8800's were terrible at gaming with 8xAA on... I found the old thread. A few replies down on the first page you can see how badly the 8800's are at 8xAA. Considering that the Radeon 38x0 cards ae supposed to be weak when it comes to AA performance, it's odd that the 8800's struggle so much above 4xAA. It is generally accepted that the 8800GT is faster then the 3870, yet with 8xAA on it seems like the 3870 consistanly pulls ahead. Seeing that this has been an issue for months now, is it really a driver issue or a hardware issue?

Link to 8xAA performance.

I pretty much never use any level of AA at all, so it's not an issue for me one way or another. But for some of you (like those of you who pay $600 for a video card) you may use 8xAA, so it's worth checking into.

From the link above:

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
DX 9 benchmark

Anno 1701 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF
HD3870 : 35,7
8800GT : 31,3
HD3850 : 30,6

Clive Barker's Jericho 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 15,6
8800GT : 5,6
HD3850 : 1,3

Colin McRae Dirt 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF
HD3870 : 15,8
8800GT : 4,5
HD3850 : 4,3

Company of heroes 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF
8800GT : 64,2
HD3870 : 58,7
HD3850 : 18,6

F.E.A.R 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 40
8800GT : 40
HD3850 : 33


Gothic 3 1600x1200 16xAF:
8800GT : 37,6
HD3870 : 20,8
HD3850 : 18,0

Oblivion 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 39,7
8800GT : 35,7
HD3850 : 34,3

Prey 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 43,8
8800GT : 36,4
HD3850 : 36,9

Rainbow Six Vegas ? 1600x1200
HD3870 : 46,3
8800GT : 40,2
HD3850 : 39,7

Stalker 1600x1200 1xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 31,5
8800GT : 19,6
HD3850 : 14,0

DX10 benchmark

Bioshock 1600x1200 1xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 37,0
8800GT : 42,8
HD3850 : 31,8

Call of Juarez 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 16,8
8800GT : 10,3
HD3850 : 6,3

Company of Heroes 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF:

HD3870 : 20,1
8800GT : 16,3
HD3850 : 14,6

Crysis 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF
HD3870 : 10,6
8800GT : 7,6
HD3850 : 4,3

Lost Planet 1600x1200 8xAA/16xAF Snow:
HD3870 : 18,8
8800GT : 16,3
HD3850 : 7,8

World in conflict 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF:
HD3870 : 28,4
8800GT : 37,5
HD3850 : 23,9

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: apoppin

NVIDIA is *also* working on their GX2 deficiencies
.. that isn't a rumor either

So 20 to 40% faster than any other card available is deficient? Now it looks like 8XAA is fine, so that was another wild quack chase.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin

NVIDIA is *also* working on their GX2 deficiencies
.. that isn't a rumor either

So 20 to 40% faster than any other card available is deficient? Now it looks like 8XAA is fine, so that was another wild quack chase.

for the $600 price tag, imo, yes!

after work i will post a list for you
-including 8xMSAA

OK

 

[dadach]

looking over dx10 benchmarks and using 8xAA, it seems for now ati is the best solution, for much less money...now what other purpose would these cards serve if not playing at the highest resolutions possible on your monitor of choice, with everything maxed out

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Cookie Monster started a thread on the latest expreview GX2 in depth review.
Here is the link to the review. You want 8xAA? You got 8xAA

They didn't seem to suffer as much as the computerbase article. What was done differently?

Tuteja's opinion of this Expreview review would be nice.

Here is a link to their table for the GX2. Linky Pie

Someone does not know how to analysis...

ET Quake War

1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 111.9
3870X2 : 99.7

1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 71.9
3870X2 : 57.6


HL 2 EP2 Timedemo

1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 138
3870X2 : 117.07


1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF
9800GX2 : 107.14
3870X2 : 107.43


1st : They only benchmaked 2 games with 8xAA , 16xAF setting.
2nd : One is Quake war ET :! some how the game now works with Crossfire ... funny.
3rd : Only other game that was benchmarked was a HL 2 EP2 and it was time demo which are usually very highly tweaked by both company. Even then Nvidia had a bigger loose when AA was turned up.


now check the traffic meter for
1. Anandtech.com
2. computerbase.de
3. firingsquad.com
4. en.expreview.com
http://www.alexa.com/data/deta..._details/anandtech.com

At least the Nvidia focus group in computerbase.de is much smarter than one appointed to Anandtech.

Any particular reason you decided to get personal Tuteja? I was about to concede to my mistake, when I read the last line. In bold.
I posted in a rush before leaving for work this morning. I should have waited til I got home tonight to look over it more thoroughly. So, any apology going to come from you? I certainly hope so. There is no reason for that BS. Go read the sticky again, and again, and again until it sinks in.

 

[evolucion8]

Rollo, If I'm wrong then explain why nVidia hasn't released a new driver for the 8 series since last year while the brand new GeForce 9 has almost weekly driver releases? And both solutions, SLI and Crossfire require profiles for performance improvements, the difference is that in SLI, the user can select render modes like you stated, with ATi cards isn't possible AFAIK, I'm not sure if the AFRFriendlyD3D.exe thing (Correct me if I'm wrong) still working though.