A question about Christianity...

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: Stark
LINK

God inhabited a human body in the form of Jesus Christ. God didn't die, but the mortal body He inhabited did.

How can He not die if the body He inhabited died? Can He do this because He is God? Well, then why did he need to die in the first place?

because in the covenant God made with Israel, blood sacrifice was required to forgive sins. God had to take the form of something (a man) that could bleed and die to create a new covenant in which the sins of all mankind could be forgiven.

Modern Christian theology is that a beleiver never really dies. They go straight from their human body into the presence of God. Only a non-believer dies... in what is seen as eternal separation from God, or Hell.

But if God is omnipotent, why then did god have to do that? And if God chose to do that, what's the point? Why was all that necessary?

My thoughts exactly. Why should someone else die to take away my sins. I mean, I wouldn't want anyone to suffer for something I did.

Ok, so God is merciful and caring, that's why He did it ... then what's the purpose of life? Why should I do good if there's no extra reward for me in it ... I mean my sins have already been forgiven .. why don't I indulge in my temptations and do as I please since there really is no need for me to do good?

Edit: Also, what happens to those who came before Jesus. They certainly didn't believe in Jesus because they didn't know him. What happens to them?

 

[PHiuR]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
What do you think in human form means?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

I think it means that God became human. That's not possible because no human can be God.

God can take a human form if he wants. even if he "dies" he is still "alive"v
he is not the same as us.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: sao123

Thanks for your reply. Referring to John 1:1, doesn't it also mean that we were all "with God" in the beginning? I mean we were all in the collective conscious of God, right? He certainly had the knowledge of our creation with Him before we existed in physical form.

Also with reference to the Trinity, how can all three figures be the same? One HAS to be supreme over the other two ... the one who created ... created everything AND the other two.

God knew of our future existance, yet we were not with him, because we did not exist at that time. To say that we are part of the collective consious of God, would imply that we are part of God. We are not, we were created by God. Our collective conscience would not exist until the creation of our souls, which I believe the church teaches happens at conception. The angels & the fallen angels were also crreated, but they do not have souls. Jesus & the Holy Spirit (in spiritual form) always existed as part of God & neither of which were ever created, is the real message here.

I didn't mean to say that we are a part of God in any way. God has the knowledge of everything that has happened, is happening and will happen. Therefore, He knew of our existence before we existed, before anything existed, except Him. In this sense, we were all with God from the very beginning.

One part of God cannot be supreme, because without the other 2, it cannot function alone. There is in inherent incompleteness, if the trinity would be missing 1 member.
As father, God performed the creation, but needed power and authority from Jesus to accomplish this. After sin & the downfall of man, seperation existed between God & Man. Jesus was the only one. God & Priest & Sacrifice all in one which could rebridge that gap between man and the father. However Jesus as a man could not continue to maintain that gap closure, once he complete his mission. Therefore, the Holy Spirit was sent as the third part of God to continually carry out what was started by Jesus. The continual bringing of man closer to God.

Why would God need Jesus' authority/power to do anything? He is God, he needs no helpers. After the "sin & downfall" of man, if Jesus is the "only one", who is he bridging the gap between ... man and himself?

Also I forgot to mention in my previous post about, the instant Jesus died, the veil to the holy of holies (the sacrificial alter in the old testament) was torn from top to bottom by God. This signifies that animal sacrifices were no longer necessary, because of the sinless sacrifice of Jesus. It also symblizes the rebridging from God to man I spoke of earlier. Only the priest could enter the holy of holies in the OT. Now every man can approach God as himself, instead of through a mediator. IE jewish high priest

If every human being can now approach God without a mediator, why do Christians still invoke Jesus' name as an intermediary before God? Nothing, they believe is done without his blessing ... there still seems to be a gap.

I agree with your first idea, now that i understand it better. On to the second.

The gap exists between Man & God (the father & creator). This gap exists because God is holy and cannot look upon sin. Therefore he could not look upon man or maintain the friendship he developed with adam & eve.
In the OT, it took a priest to be the bridge between man & God. In the bible it says Jesus, who is a priest in the line of melchizadec(sp) became our high priest (symbolically he became the priestly bridge between man & God the father.) That gap still exists and will exist until man is in heaven and is finally in the presence of God. Because Jesus took on the sin of the world, anyone who confesses his sin and believes in the Son of God has his sin removed and cast into the depths of the sea. (John 3:16 + Micah 7:??). Salvation/Forgiveness is accomplished through Jesus, and then that person may begin to approach God the creator and father as a sinless soul but now his approach is through the Holy Spirit. Take note: Jesus's death & ressurrection was the beginning of the closing of that gap, not the end.


I do not know the answer to why the father and creator needs the power and authority from Jesus. However, the end of John 1:3 tells us it is so. I will try to look it up, but I am told there is a scripture written by paul which reaffirms this assertion.

 

[Rock Hydra]

I have a feeling this is going to be locked shortly.

 

[sao123]

Why should this topic be locked if there is serious discussion occuring?

 

[mobobuff]

God likes to play skeeball.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

See? He's well prepared and been through this argument before. He's just a flamebait troll. :roll:

Oh well. Interesting theories here and I'm actually shocked to see a religion thread with people like RedDawn and his ilk actually missing for a change.

 

[imported_JeReMY]

Jesus is not God. They are both different beings.

 

[Wadded Beef]

Jesus, God, and Wadded Beef are all one in the same. Bow before me.

 

[myusername]

Originally posted by: Nik
See? He's well prepared and been through this argument before. He's just a flamebait troll.

Oh well. Interesting theories here and I'm actually shocked to see a religion thread with people like RedDawn and his ilk actually missing for a change.

Nick, you are a brash obnoxious prig, and you have contributed nothing but whining and bitching to this thread.

To date, your contributions, in their entirety, to this thread:

:roll:

If you have a serious religious question, go ask your local pastor. Don't ask the hoards of fvcking asshats on a computer forum that flame Christianity -not religion, just Christianity.

We've tried many, many, many times. Asshats refuse to leave it alone. They fvck up serious, legitmate threads with their childish insults.

Seriously!?

Considering the post I just quoted, it seems to me as though you're not interested in learning, just arguing. If you want to talk about it, I'm all for it, but I won't do it here because of the profound lack of respect of religion on these forums. Oh, and you'll have to pry open that closed mind of yours.

:shocked:

oh man :roll:

It's so hard to hold my tongue.

Don't even start with me :roll: I'm one of the biggest defenders of religion on these forums. However, thanks for afirming my charge of your just wanting to argue instead of legitimately learn. :thumbsup: Looks like you're just looking to bait a flame war.

ROFL!! OMFGHAHAHAHAHA

Are you still here?

Do you honestly think NOBODY has EVER asked that question before? That's one of the most popular questions to be asked by people who haven't ever read the Bible. Google it and you'll find your answer.

We are ignoring the trolls. It seems to be ignoring the dumbasses that we're struggling with right now.

I'll say this as stupidly as I can.

FVCKING CLICK ME

It doesn't take an expert to read the goddamn book.

Since my method seemed to work...

FVCKING CLICK ME

pooned. Look up.

You have also not read the Bible.

Then don't confuse him when he asks about Christianity.

There's only one troll in this thread, and he's an asshat with no eyelids.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Wadded Beef
Jesus, God, and Wadded Beef are all one in the same. Bow before me.

a burnt offering, maybe

God likes BBQ!! Peta sucks!

ok.. back to work

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Nik
See? He's well prepared and been through this argument before. He's just a flamebait troll. :roll:

Oh well. Interesting theories here and I'm actually shocked to see a religion thread with people like RedDawn and his ilk actually missing for a change.

he's probably busy making gb pay for that "sexless marriage" thread...

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: myusername

Originally posted by: Nik
See? He's well prepared and been through this argument before. He's just a flamebait troll.

Oh well. Interesting theories here and I'm actually shocked to see a religion thread with people like RedDawn and his ilk actually missing for a change.

Nick, you are a brash obnoxious prig, and you have contributed nothing but whining and bitching to this thread.

To date, your contributions, in their entirety, to this thread:

:roll:

If you have a serious religious question, go ask your local pastor. Don't ask the hoards of fvcking asshats on a computer forum that flame Christianity -not religion, just Christianity.

We've tried many, many, many times. Asshats refuse to leave it alone. They fvck up serious, legitmate threads with their childish insults.

Seriously!?

Considering the post I just quoted, it seems to me as though you're not interested in learning, just arguing. If you want to talk about it, I'm all for it, but I won't do it here because of the profound lack of respect of religion on these forums. Oh, and you'll have to pry open that closed mind of yours.

:shocked:

oh man :roll:

It's so hard to hold my tongue.

Don't even start with me :roll: I'm one of the biggest defenders of religion on these forums. However, thanks for afirming my charge of your just wanting to argue instead of legitimately learn. :thumbsup: Looks like you're just looking to bait a flame war.

ROFL!! OMFGHAHAHAHAHA

Are you still here?

Do you honestly think NOBODY has EVER asked that question before? That's one of the most popular questions to be asked by people who haven't ever read the Bible. Google it and you'll find your answer.

We are ignoring the trolls. It seems to be ignoring the dumbasses that we're struggling with right now.

I'll say this as stupidly as I can.

FVCKING CLICK ME

It doesn't take an expert to read the goddamn book.

Since my method seemed to work...

FVCKING CLICK ME

pooned. Look up.

You have also not read the Bible.

Then don't confuse him when he asks about Christianity.

There's only one troll in this thread, and he's an asshat with no eyelids.

Yup.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: sao123
The gap exists between Man & God (the father & creator). This gap exists because God is holy and cannot look upon sin. Therefore he could not look upon man or maintain the friendship he developed with adam & eve.
In the OT, it took a priest to be the bridge between man & God. In the bible it says Jesus, who is a priest in the line of melchizadec(sp) became our high priest (symbolically he became the priestly bridge between man & God the father.) That gap still exists and will exist until man is in heaven and is finally in the presence of God. Because Jesus took on the sin of the world, anyone who confesses his sin and believes in the Son of God has his sin removed and cast into the depths of the sea. (John 3:16 + Micah 7:??). Salvation/Forgiveness is accomplished through Jesus, and then that person may begin to approach God the creator and father as a sinless soul but now his approach is through the Holy Spirit. Take note: Jesus's death & ressurrection was the beginning of the closing of that gap, not the end.

I do not know the answer to why the father and creator needs the power and authority from Jesus. However, the end of John 1:3 tells us it is so. I will try to look it up, but I am told there is a scripture written by paul which reaffirms this assertion.

I guess the notion of salvation through Jesus is secondary to me because to recognize this, I would have to accept the divinity of Jesus which I am not convinced of.

If Jesus is the only way to salvation, then God sounds too detached from Jesus, if they are to be one and the same.

Again, it comes down to the doctrine of the trinity which is most confusing. If they are one and three at the same time, who is Jesus praying to according to John 12:27?

"Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour."

Edit: Is the "hour" he is referring to the time before his capture by the Romans? Or is he himself asking for forgiveness and help from God. In any case, why does he need help if he IS God and a powerful member of the trinity?

 

[thehstrybean]

Man, I just went and pulled out the lawn chair and a six pack...just waiting to see how this ends...

If you talk to a Greek Orthodox Catholic, they'll tell you that Jesus was fully man...an Egyptian Coptic will tell you that Jesus was full God...Personally, I'll tell you that Jesus was both...He could have gotten off the Cross if he wanted to, but he didn't...Jesus was both man and God...This is something that we cannot comprehend..Just my view on it...

 

[meltdown75]

ok :beer:s stat to douse the flames... geez look what happens when you don't tend the BBQ...

:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Man, I just went and pulled out the lawn chair and a six pack...just waiting to see how this ends...

If you talk to a Greek Orthodox Catholic, they'll tell you that Jesus was fully man...an Egyptian Coptic will tell you that Jesus was full God...Personally, I'll tell you that Jesus was both...He could have gotten off the Cross if he wanted to, but he didn't...Jesus was both man and God...This is something that we cannot comprehend..Just my view on it...

So Jesus/God let Himself die at the hands of humans? I find that very hard to comprehend. Again, why does Jesus need to die for my sins? I think it's unfair that one individual commits a crime and another pays. If one were to believe this, life would be meaningless and there would be no motivation to do good or abstain from evil.

 

[thehstrybean]

If ya need some more :beer:s, I got some left from my six pack...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
This will never end...

Fixed.

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Man, I just went and pulled out the lawn chair and a six pack...just waiting to see how this ends...

If you talk to a Greek Orthodox Catholic, they'll tell you that Jesus was fully man...an Egyptian Coptic will tell you that Jesus was full God...Personally, I'll tell you that Jesus was both...He could have gotten off the Cross if he wanted to, but he didn't...Jesus was both man and God...This is something that we cannot comprehend..Just my view on it...

So Jesus/God let Himself die at the hands of humans? I find that very hard to comprehend. Again, why does Jesus need to die for my sins? I think it's unfair that one individual commits a crime and another pays. If one were to believe this, life would be meaningless and there would be no motivation to do good or abstain from evil.

It was already planned that Jesus would die..He knew he would (since he was God and he knows everything...)...He did this because he loved us...In ancient times Israelites would sacrifice a sheep (that had no broken bones, ect) to God as atonment for their sins...Jesus is the perfect lamb...He died for us since we couldn't do it for ourselves...Why? Because we aren't perfect...People obstain from evil because, if they are saved, every time they sin it puts more on Jesus..Our sins go to him...

 

[EF9]

Originally posted by: spidey07
jesus wasn't god. He died for our sins to return by his fathers side.

'least that's what I remember.

The Virgin Mary had sex?

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: Nik
It doesn't take an expert to read the goddamn book.

I do pray that you weren't talking about the Bible..And since you're the biggest defender of religion, maybe you wouldn't mind obstaining from using God's name in vain...Thank you...

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: EF9

Originally posted by: spidey07
jesus wasn't god. He died for our sins to return by his fathers side.

'least that's what I remember.

The Virgin Mary had sex?

No...then she wouldn't be The Virgin Mary, would she?
LoL....:beer:

 

[bleeb]

Originally posted by: Nik
:roll:

If you have a serious religious question, go ask your local pastor. Don't ask the hoards of fvcking asshats on a computer forum that flame Christianity -not religion, just Christianity.

I doubt this is a serious question....

 

[Orsorum]

Nik,

I say this as an ex-Christian, a long-time poster and a person who respects you for many of the opinions and beliefs that you hold: IMO, you need to see a psychologist, and perhaps a priest. The attitude you've displayed not just in this thread but many others leads me to believe that you have some serious anger management issues and that you are either doubting or compensating for doubting some of the same things that are being discussed.



Nate