Academic Dishonesty

[squirtle24]

I saw some occasional cheating going on when I was in college. I was never put in a situation where I could turn someone in, but I sure as hell wouldn't have shunned someone who did. Not being a cheater, why would I care?

I'm surprised at the number of people here who would not only look the other way, but are indignant that you did the right thing. How far does that go? Any crime is okay so long as it has no immediate effect on you?

 

[Cogman]

As far as I'm concerned you did the right thing. I think if someone is doing something wrong, and if it is going to affect others negitivly, then you should turn them in.

It seams like most people here think that "cheating is ok, because it only hurts the person doing it" or "if you turn in a cheater, your worse then the cheater" I in no way agree with that.

Part of the resion High school diplomas are worth so little is because of punk cheaters out there that dont earn them. And yes cheating does hurt over. If Joe cheats throughout Highschool and gets a High GPA in harder classes, Joe wants to be a docter and so goes into medical school, Joe cheats throughout medical school and becomes a docter. Now you have to have docter Joe preform open heart surgery on you, does this make you feal comfortable?

Joe instead decides to become a computer programmer, since he graduated top in his class, he gets a job over poor bob, who never cheated, After the company spends a couple thousand dollors on Joe, they fire him, and go looking for new employees, but bob has moved on and gotten a job elsewear, but most likely for less pay because it was not his first choice. Now Joe has hurt bob, bob's family (if he has one), the company, and its employees. Was this right?

And yet people here seam to think that Joe is justified in his cheating because he would never get ahead, cheaters should be punished for cheating so that they will not cheat. but, if like in this situation, the teacher does not know who the cheater is, then they are forced to punish everyone.

 

[Black88GTA]

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Aharami
even though what u did was the right thing to do, you should be minding your own business. if people find out, it wont be a happy day for u

No way anyone finds out it was me. It simply not possible.

Unless someone in that class happens to read this board (or lurk), sees this thread, checks your profile, finds your full name and location, puts 2 + 2 together and figures it out....

It is possible (although not likely) that you will be discovered...

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: benchiu
Remind me to never hire any of you people that have problems ratting out others. You may say it's different in a school environment, but if you can't do the right thing in school, I doubt you'll do it in a job.

They are missing the big picture here aren't they?

 

[josphII]

you sure this professor doesnt recycle his homework and/or quiz/test questions? i went to berkeley and my gpa skyrocketed when i started making friends in my major and they filled me in about which teachers recycled what and told me they always just got the answers from the grad students that had already taken the course.

personally i would never turn somebody in for cheating. im confident in myself and how well i know things and i dont need an A or a B to justify my knowledge. of course if i could redo college i would have worked harder and made sure my gpa was higher than what it turned out to be, but thats a different matter.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: CPA
I would rat on any one of you.

IN FACT, my certification pretty much states that I must come forward with knowledge of fraud. It's my ethical duty and insures the integrity of my credentials. Sure, this isn't school work I'm talking about, but the principal is the same. don't want the heat, then don't cheat.

But you do taxes, you lie all the time

If I knew someone was cheating i would turn them in in a New York minute. Think about it this way all you that think he's a nosey bitch: The student graduates and goes to work for Boeing designing planes. So instead of using his knowledge and doing it right, he takes some planes from another plane and just incorporates those into his plane. That can cause 100's of people their life because of one dishonest person.

 

[DAGTA]

What most people don't understand is that cheating does hurt everyone. This is part of the lecture I would give during the first session of every semester:

"I don't tolerate cheating. First offense: zero on the assignment. Second offense: F in the course. No exceptions. Why am I so hard on cheating? Because every cheater devalues my degree and everyone else's degree in this room. How so? A person that cheats his/her way through college is going to graduate knowing less than someone that didn't cheat. When the cheater gets a job, he/she may last a while but will likely get fired after a few months for not knowing how to do the job. The boss then says, 'What school was he/she from? Don't hire anyone else that has a degree from that college.' Hence, all of our degrees just became less valuable. If you find someone cheating, I'm not asking you to turn them in, but I am asking you to refuse to help that person. Helping a cheater hurts the value of your degree."

I wonder how many of you calling this person a rat stopped to think about that? Actually, most of your calling him a rat are probably cheaters.
-DAGTA

 

[DaWhim]

Originally posted by: DAGTAI wonder how many of you calling this person a rat stopped to think about that? Actually, most of your calling him a rat are probably cheaters.
-DAGTA

that is what i was thinking too. cheater mentality!

 

[Orsorum]

I would rat on any one of you.

IN FACT, my certification pretty much states that I must come forward with knowledge of fraud. It's my ethical duty and insures the integrity of my credentials. Sure, this isn't school work I'm talking about, but the principal is the same. don't want the heat, then don't cheat.

Same here. Though I'm not a CPA, I want to be one someday (just a lowly investment adviser right now. )

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: DAGTA
What most people don't understand is that cheating does hurt everyone. This is part of the lecture I would give during the first session of every semester:

"I don't tolerate cheating. First offense: zero on the assignment. Second offense: F in the course. No exceptions. Why am I so hard on cheating? Because every cheater devalues my degree and everyone else's degree in this room. How so? A person that cheats his/her way through college is going to graduate knowing less than someone that didn't cheat. When the cheater gets a job, he/she may last a while but will likely get fired after a few months for not knowing how to do the job. The boss then says, 'What school was he/she from? Don't hire anyone else that has a degree from that college.' Hence, all of our degrees just became less valuable. If you find someone cheating, I'm not asking you to turn them in, but I am asking you to refuse to help that person. Helping a cheater hurts the value of your degree."

I wonder how many of you calling this person a rat stopped to think about that? Actually, most of your calling him a rat are probably cheaters.
-DAGTA

I've never cheated in my life, so blow me?

 

[NuclearNed]

I hate it when people lie and cheat to get ahead.

That being said, you should let them drown in their own stupidity. The more stupid people there are in the world, the brighter the smart ones look. Think about it like this, would you like to compete for a job against a complete moron, or someone who actually learned as much as possible in school?

But you did the right thing. Kudos.

 

[amcdonald]

Why the hell wouldn't you rat him out?
People that haven't learned to accomplish things on their own by the time they are in college need to learn the hard way.
And for 30% of the class to do it and copy the solutions similarly is just retarded. Of course they are going to get caught.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
Why the hell wouldn't you rat him out?
People that haven't learned to accomplish things on their own by the time they are in college need to learn the hard way.
And for 30% of the class to do it and copy the solutions similarly is just retarded. Of course they are going to get caught.

They may not get caught. Depends on the professor. I had many professors that would look the other way on cheating because they didn't want to deal with it. I had one class where we were demonstrating our programs in front of class. One student had two bugs in his program. At that point, seven other students got up and left class together. They came back together 10 minutes later. When they showed their programs, none of them had the bugs the first guy had but all seven had two other bugs. What did the professor do? He laughed and then gave them all A's.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: benchiu
Remind me to never hire any of you people that have problems ratting out others. You may say it's different in a school environment, but if you can't do the right thing in school, I doubt you'll do it in a job.

Bingo. It's called ethics.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

I don't quite understand the rat arguement. What secret trust exists between students that says that they are obligated to remain silent even when they see other people breaking rules at the expense of those who don't?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: benchiu
Remind me to never hire any of you people that have problems ratting out others. You may say it's different in a school environment, but if you can't do the right thing in school, I doubt you'll do it in a job.

Bingo. It's called ethics.

Ethics? What's that?

 

[Ausm]

I used to take other people's finals for cash

Sysadmin

 

[dolph]

i really liked dagta's response, and am personally offended that when so many people's grades are at stake, so many would look the other way because it's "not their business." what a load of shjt. i may not rat someone out if i see him cheating by himself, though to be consistent i suppose i should, but if it's something that affects so many people on such a large scale, in a heartbeat. do they care that other grades would be lowered because of their actions? or that they're going to get ahead by dishonest means? no, and comeuppance can come in many forms, including getting caught for the crime. eigen, you did fine. don't let any of these morally bankrupt people try to tell you otherwise. it's very, very hard to justify letting someone cheat, and they're not doing a good job of it.

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: eigen
I just turned a fellow student in for academic dishonesty and am feeling somewhat odd about it. I usually maintain that rats are a lower form of life, but somehow I justified my actions.

Anybody every turn someone in knowing full well there would be serious consequneces for that individual?How did that make you feel.

You are a f$#$% weasel. Concentrate on yourself: forget about what everyone else does. Karma comes around and goes around. He had his coming. Now you do too.

bullsh!t. Let's not hold anyone to any particular standard. Let's allow anyone and everyone to become doctors and surgeons and lawyers so that when they go out into the real world and practice they make BIG mistakes that cost others their livelihood. Those individuals that cheat later in life are the same ones that swindled their way through high school, college, graduate school, etc.

Weasel my ass...get yourself some fvcking moral fortitude.

 

[kermalou]

in high school, there was rampant cheating in my summer physics class. it was so bad that the teacher put a bounty if anyone turned anyone else in for cheating. well "my friend" was cheating and was turned in. he flunked the course and the fvcking rat who turned in "my friend" got an A in the class..........................

i think "my friend" learned a great lesson that day.

 

[Chu]

I wonder how many of the negative posters in this thread went to college. Grades matter. A *LOT*. They get you internships, they get you the first job out of college, they get you into a better grad school. Yes, knowledge is what counts in the long term, but ideally you want BOTH the grades and the knowledge. Also, to all those people who say that why bother it won't effect you -- almost all classes in college are curved. Also, in many classes difficulty is curved, as in the prof wants the homework average around 70% and will make future homeworks more difficult if the HW average is higher then that. As for the whole karmic balance thing, well, I guess that means the next time the poser cheats, he will be turned in for it. Guess what the easy solution to that delemia is?

-Chu

 

[kranky]

I really liked Dagta's comment.

I have a good friend who is in nursing school because she's changing careers (currently a CPA). She told me that she figures half the students are cheating on quizzes and tests. She works like crazy to get a B while the cheaters get A's. The girl that sat next to her at the most recent final gave her a hard time afterwards because she wanted to look at some of my friend's answers and she said no.

Are those the people you want assigned to you when you are in the hospital? Do you want them caring for your parents if they are sick? Do you want them taking care of your children when they are born?

I sure as hell do not.

 

[thomsbrain]

cheating is just one of the reasons why grading on a curve is the most retarded thing in the universe. if i master the material, i should get an A, regardless of what other people get.

 

[dpopiz]

look, I doubt barely anybody is really "academically honest" if you count being honest to yourself. just studying for a test is cheating.

 

[bigredguy]

Originally posted by: Passions
I would have ratted him out too. Heck I did it alot of times because it disgusts me. One time, I saw a kid furiously scribbling something a few seconds after time was up on a midterm, I busted his ass quick. Just because time is up, you think you are privledged to write more than others? I think not.

I walked up the to professor and pointed him out. The prof didn't think it was a big deal, but I let him know the Chancellor would be hearing about this if not. Kid was tearing up and about to cry, but it was his fault for doing it.

Do what's right. Rat out the rats!!!

Someone's dying alone and it's not me.



Eigen you did the right thing and you should be proud of yourself. Turning someone in for cheating isn't always easy, but you can look yourself in the mirror and know you did what is right. And you are not in the same boar a Passions who, i think, turn his own mom in for cheating.