actress shot dead in NY

[SuperTool]

She brought her mouth to a gun fight.

 

[Antoneo]

Actually, this brings up a question that I haven't seen answered. Perhaps one of you guys have studied this or have heard what the authorities (police, etc) have said.

What is the "proper" or suggested form of conduct when you are confronted by a thug with a weapon who is after your money/valuables? Does the situation change with a different weapon, or a different number of criminals?

 

[Vegito]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
She brought her mouth to a gun fight.

that is true... i wouldn't haven even asked.. then again, im wearing a kelvar vest at work right now so I can probably afford to get shot but still.. even wearing a vest, I wouldn't be like r u gonna shot ?

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Antoneo
Actually, this brings up a question that I haven't seen answered. Perhaps one of you guys have studied this or have heard what the authorities (police, etc) have said.

What is the "proper" or suggested form of conduct when you are confronted by a thug with a weapon who is after your money/valuables? Does the situation change with a different weapon, or a different number of criminals?

It's to remain calm, be cooperative, and notify the police immediately afterward. Also to take careful note of the thugs features if possible. The NYPD is actually pretty good, they get plenty of practice.

I'm not sure what the Texas Rangers would suggest. Probably something similar to niks comments.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Antoneo
Actually, this brings up a question that I haven't seen answered. Perhaps one of you guys have studied this or have heard what the authorities (police, etc) have said.

What is the "proper" or suggested form of conduct when you are confronted by a thug with a weapon who is after your money/valuables? Does the situation change with a different weapon, or a different number of criminals?

If you are confronted by an armed robber, the "proper" thing to do in the eyes of practically all law enforment agencies is compliance. They emphasize you do not want to be a "hero."

You want to remain calm. You do not want to make any sudden moves. Do not concentrate on things such as the weapon, but concentrate on the appearance of the robber. Hair, height, weight, any identifiable tattoos or scars. Anything that would help the police look for this guy. Also, never pursue a robber. That's something that's going to get you killed.

If you know a police officer, ask them and they'll tell you the same thing. They emphasize that material objects can be replaced, your life cannot.

 

[Vegito]

true but most of us are probably busy peeing in the pants

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Yossarian
I don't think concealed carry inside a bar is a wise idea. And when a group of 4-5 guys gets the drop on you you are not gonna have much of a chance to draw first anyway.

Why not? IMO, a law-abiding citizen should have the right to carry at all times. And yeah, there's nothing you can do when a gang gets the drop on you, which is why you should be street-wise and wary enough to prevent that from happening in the first place. And why murdering bastards like that gang should feel the hangman's noose within an hour after their post-conviction sentencing -- they might think twice about murdering someone if they knew just how soon they would have to meet God's judgement for their crimes.

Boos and Alcohol don't mix. Just look at the Wild West. It's my understanding that alcohol played a major factor in nearly all gun fights of that time. It's pretty naive to think having armed drunks in a bar is a good thing.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Yossarian
I don't think concealed carry inside a bar is a wise idea. And when a group of 4-5 guys gets the drop on you you are not gonna have much of a chance to draw first anyway.

Why not? IMO, a law-abiding citizen should have the right to carry at all times. And yeah, there's nothing you can do when a gang gets the drop on you, which is why you should be street-wise and wary enough to prevent that from happening in the first place. And why murdering bastards like that gang should feel the hangman's noose within an hour after their post-conviction sentencing -- they might think twice about murdering someone if they knew just how soon they would have to meet God's judgement for their crimes.

Boos and Alcohol don't mix. Just look at the Wild West. It's my understanding that alcohol played a major factor in nearly all gun fights of that time. It's pretty naive to think having armed drunks in a bar is a good thing.

If you're carrying a firearm, do you honestly think you should be drinking? In that situation, the problem existed way before being drunk and having a gun at the same time.

 

[Attrox]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: BigJ
What exactly would you do about the attackers? 4-5 shady characters, when it's you and your friend, and 2 probably helpless women.

If I saw it happening, I'd try to move out of plain sight and dial 911 as fast as I could, but if I'm unarmed and outnumbered, what good is it going to do if I step in and start putting up a fight? Just so I can try to save a a day or twos pay, and some credit cards that I have fraud protection on. Material possessions can be replaced but once you're dead, you stay dead.

Well, I had this huge post all written up ready to go, but I'm just going to be called a liar or made fun of for it, so I'm not going to say it. I'll just leave it alone. I know what I know and I wouldn't have any problem handling a small group of thugs. I've done it before with no one hurt and I would gladly do it again.

and if during your heroics, one of your friends get killed? what then?

Or when they shoot you...and decide to kill all the people you were trying to save in order to cover it up...what then?

Doesn't matter. He acted like a tough guy, that's all that matters.

:roll: It has nothing to do with being a tough guy. Why do police take risks? Why does the military take risks? If they do something, *GASP*, someone might DIE!! OH NOES!!

What if the guys on the plane that crashed in PA during 9/11 didn't do anything at all? What if that plane crashed at the terrorist's destination, killing perhaps thousands more? Would you rather lose the single plane or risk another World Trade Tower loss because you were too worried about losing the people on the plane?

How do you know that the scumbags in that situation (robbery) won't continue on robbing and killing people? Would you rather lose one in an attempt to stop them, and succeed in stopping them, or would you rather sit back and *hope* they don't kill anyone else just to save the people in the current situation? Even if you fail and someone *does* die and they get away, at least you tried.

Nevermind. You guys don't seem to think about the bigger picture and you'll find any way to argue and that's not something I wish to persue at this point. You do it your way and I'll do it my way.

you're comparing the people on the flight in PA who stopped a terrorist plan to kill thousands of people with..... a street mugging over a purse?

you may be able to decide for yourself what you're going to do, but if there's other people present, then your actions affect them as well. you could wind up getting them killed. throw your life away by all means, but don't risk someone elses.

Go right ahead. I refuse to stand by and not do anything.

I will do anything to confront the criminals IF I'M BATMAN!

I'm asking you this, if you are facing 4 or 5 armed thugs are you sure you 100% won't get killed/injured?
If there's a possibility of you getting killed, what do you think will happen next? The robbers will just leave the original victim alone? They will probably kill the victim too. Now you are harming 2 people including you instead of just giving the crooks the replaceable wallet/money.

There's a lot difference between this situation and the plane hijack, there are a lot more at stake then just money.

This is why cops never blindingly chase criminals during car chase unless in the movie, because the most important is safety first.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Attrox
I will do anything to confront the criminals IF I'M BATMAN!

I'm asking you this, if you are facing 4 or 5 armed thugs are you sure you 100% won't get killed/injured?
If there's a possibility of you getting killed, what do you think will happen next? The robbers will just leave the original victim alone? They will probably kill the victim too. Now you are harming 2 people including you instead of just giving the crooks the replaceable wallet/money.

There's a lot difference between this situation and the plane hijack, there are a lot more at stake then just money.

This is why cops never blindingly chase criminals during car chase unless in the movie, because the most important is safety first.

Sigh. You're taking one option that *might* happen (robbers shooting a second victim) and expounding on what *might* happen next and talking about it like it's inevitable.

Ever heard of someone getting mugged and then killed as well? Well I refuse to find out if I'm going to be one of the lucky ones.

Seriously, just stfu.

 

[Attrox]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Attrox
I will do anything to confront the criminals IF I'M BATMAN!

I'm asking you this, if you are facing 4 or 5 armed thugs are you sure you 100% won't get killed/injured?
If there's a possibility of you getting killed, what do you think will happen next? The robbers will just leave the original victim alone? They will probably kill the victim too. Now you are harming 2 people including you instead of just giving the crooks the replaceable wallet/money.

There's a lot difference between this situation and the plane hijack, there are a lot more at stake then just money.

This is why cops never blindingly chase criminals during car chase unless in the movie, because the most important is safety first.

Sigh. You're taking one option that *might* happen (robbers shooting a second victim) and expounding on what *might* happen next and talking about it like it's inevitable.

Ever heard of someone getting mugged and then killed as well? Well I refuse to find out if I'm going to be one of the lucky ones.

Seriously, just stfu.

hahaha... stfu and a smiley face, good one Nik!

Of course it's not inevitable, but that is one possible scenario out of many others.
The thing is, you are gambling with the victim's life when you are doing that. And this is only for something trivial like money which is replaceable. It's a different scenario if the victim's life is at stake from the begining, eg: she was about to get raped.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Nik
Those who do not respect their ethical obligation to resist make me sick.

And those people who throw away their lives in a brazen act of stupidity, leaving their loved ones and friends behind, make me sick.

My loved ones would respect my choice to honor my ethical obligation to resist. That doesn't mean scream wildly and run at the attacker with your arms failing in the air, which some people seem to assume that it means.

I don't see how saying "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" is a manner of resistance

 

[Rudee]

When someone points a gun at you and asks you for your belongings, you quietly give it to them. I'm a big guy, yet I wouldn't think twice about doing or saying something stupid to an armed man who's armed.

 

[Mill]

People please. All the Monday morning quarterbacking here is silly. She was probably drunk or had some drinks, and was belligerent to the guy. Does that mean it was her fault or that she deserved it? It is NEVER your fault when some random thugs accost and shoot you. Doesn't matter if you weren't the most docile person on earth.

 

[shimsham]

nik, by your logic, the contents of your purse, or someone elses, has more value than being a father/mother to your children, growing old with your wife, providing a good life for your family, being there in a time of need for your loved ones, etc. etc.

bravery and ability have nothng to do with it. a smart man knows to pick his battles.

 

[DannyLove]

Sad story, but i must add that she is not very smart in testing someone that was armed with an ignorant sentence as "are you going to shoot us?"

danny~!

 

[Attrox]

Originally posted by: Mill
People please. All the Monday morning quarterbacking here is silly. She was probably drunk or had some drinks, and was belligerent to the guy. Does that mean it was her fault or that she deserved it? It is NEVER your fault when some random thugs accost and shoot you. Doesn't matter if you weren't the most docile person on earth.

It's not her fault of course. It's just a pity that her death can possibly be avoided if she didn't provoke the robbers.

Originally posted by: shimsham
nik, by your logic, the contents of your purse, or someone elses, has more value than being a father/mother to your children, growing old with your wife, providing a good life for your family, being there in a time of need for your loved ones, etc. etc.

bravery and ability have nothng to do with it. a smart man knows to pick his battles.

:thumbsup:

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Nik
Those who do not respect their ethical obligation to resist make me sick.

And those people who throw away their lives in a brazen act of stupidity, leaving their loved ones and friends behind, make me sick.

My loved ones would respect my choice to honor my ethical obligation to resist. That doesn't mean scream wildly and run at the attacker with your arms failing in the air, which some people seem to assume that it means.

I don't see how saying "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" is a manner of resistance

I don't either. Where did I say I'd do what she did?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: DannyLove
Sad story, but i must add that she is not very smart in testing someone that was armed with an ignorant sentence as "are you going to shoot us?"

danny~!

Didn't someone mension that the weapon surfaced only after she said that?

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Nik
Those who do not respect their ethical obligation to resist make me sick.

And those people who throw away their lives in a brazen act of stupidity, leaving their loved ones and friends behind, make me sick.

My loved ones would respect my choice to honor my ethical obligation to resist. That doesn't mean scream wildly and run at the attacker with your arms failing in the air, which some people seem to assume that it means.

I don't see how saying "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" is a manner of resistance

I don't either. Where did I say I'd do what she did?

Ah ok. Then you agree that what she did was stupid?

 

[DannyLove]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DannyLove
Sad story, but i must add that she is not very smart in testing someone that was armed with an ignorant sentence as "are you going to shoot us?"

danny~!

Didn't someone mension that the weapon surfaced only after she said that?

Weapon or not, it still wasn't very smart to test a thug like that. There is a reason ppl in this country do these kinds of crimes, they have nothing to lose. Why test that? Sad.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Nik
Those who do not respect their ethical obligation to resist make me sick.

And those people who throw away their lives in a brazen act of stupidity, leaving their loved ones and friends behind, make me sick.

My loved ones would respect my choice to honor my ethical obligation to resist. That doesn't mean scream wildly and run at the attacker with your arms failing in the air, which some people seem to assume that it means.

I don't see how saying "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" is a manner of resistance

I don't either. Where did I say I'd do what she did?

Ah ok. Then you agree that what she did was stupid?

Not stupid, no. Just ... useless.

 

[Attrox]

Tell me then Nik, under what realistic circumstances will you NOT confront the muggers/robbers?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: DannyLove

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DannyLove
Sad story, but i must add that she is not very smart in testing someone that was armed with an ignorant sentence as "are you going to shoot us?"

danny~!

Didn't someone mension that the weapon surfaced only after she said that?

Weapon or not, it still wasn't very smart to test a thug like that. There is a reason ppl in this country do these kinds of crimes, they have nothing to lose. Why test that? Sad.

Wrong. People in this country do these kinds of crimes because they know that they can get away with it -that nobody's got the balls to stand up against them.

"Oh no! Someone's standing in front of me with their hand out asking me for my wallet! I'd better not do anything other than just give them my wallet just in case they have a weapon!"

heh...

Someone asking for my wallet is one thing. Someone asking for my wallet with a gun in my face is something else. Without a gun, I'd laugh and tell them to fvck off. As strange as it may sound, there *are* people on this planet who know how to defend themselves against unarmed and attackers armed with knives -and even a few (dripping with sarcasm) who have been trained on how to handle an attacker with a gun if they're within range.

If there's a gun in my face, there will almost always be a chance for physical contact with your attacker unless they play it smart and have you set it on something and back away or throw it to them or something. The only situation where I wouldn't try immediately taking down my attacker once they're inside my 5' bubble is if they never get inside the bubble to begin with.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Attrox
Tell me then Nik, under what realistic circumstances will you NOT confront the muggers/robbers?

If they're more than 5' away and they have a gun.