Discussion Ada/'Lovelace'? Next gen Nvidia gaming architecture speculation

[Ranulf]

Speaking of G-sync... Yay for more proprietary features!

Nvidia’s G-Sync Pulsar is anti-blur monitor tech aimed squarely at your eyeball

Branded monitors can sync pixels to backlighting, refresh rate, and GPU frames.

arstechnica.com

Interesting article and comment thread there, especially the Blur Buster guy's comments.

 

[Aapje]

I bring up a fault in AMD's marketing of FSR

No, you bring up an imagined fault, with no proof that the contract actually contains that clause.

We've seen a bunch of games that implemented DLSS 2 before FSR 2, which can also just as easily be explained by limited developer resources.

I do expect the AMD sponsoring to require FSR 2. Then it makes perfect sense for developers to skip DLSS until after launch. I think that we all know that devs often struggle to launch a barely working game. It makes perfect sense for them to skip all but one of the upscaling techs at first and focus on getting the game working correctly.

 

[Aapje]

What's the consensus and the super models?

4080 Super = no longer horrible value, but not good
4070 Ti = biggest improvement with more VRAM, wider bus and more cores. Now much more useable for VR/lower end 4k
4070 Super = decent value now

 

[Timorous]

What's the consensus and the super models?

I think it' snot bad. 4080 Super is mostly a price-cut, the 4070 TI add the dire needed extra RAM, and the 4070 super gets the biggest performance uplift.

But yeah ultimately local pricing will determine success for me or not.

IMO they are not bad but they are what it should have launched at.

The 4080 S is what the OG 4080 should have been at the $999 price point. The 4070 Ti S is what the 4070 Ti should have been and the 4070 S is what the 4070 should have been.

Then with that lineup the 4060Ti could have been what the 4070 was ($450-$500 for that would have been pretty good IMO, far better than the 4060Ti 16GB) and the 4060 could have been what the 4060 Ti was at $350.

So it feels like we are being given what we really should have had last year at the prices we should have had it at last year so to me it just feels like about time.

 

[Heartbreaker]

And I'm sure the masses will cheer for it if VESA adopts a free version of this feature.

Adopts what? There are no new potential standards at play.

There have already been free implementations backlight strobing for years, and even Variable Refresh backlight strobing (ELMB-Sync):

Asus combines motion blur reduction with variable refresh rate | bit-tech.net

ELMB-Sync coming to three new monitors.

www.bit-tech.net

The problem is that this is Extremely difficult to do right. This is just paying the money to sweat the details to make a better tuned implementation.

The real issue is that NVidia may artificially lock it to their GPUs. That genuinely sucks, since there is no reason it shouldn't also work with AMD GPUs, as this is just a better tuned Variable Refresh backlight strobe.

I'm not an esports/twitch gamer, so this is simply not a product space I'd buy into, though I'll still check out reviews.

 

[Heartbreaker]

What's the consensus and the super models?

I think it' snot bad. 4080 Super is mostly a price-cut, the 4070 TI add the dire needed extra RAM, and the 4070 super gets the biggest performance uplift.

But yeah ultimately local pricing will determine success for me or not.

It definitely turns up the competitive heat on AMD, and that's likely the point. Plus it gets these refresh cards another review cycle, which is essentially free marketing.

I get a laugh on the some of the online chatter. I have seen a lot of "Don't buy RTX 4000, wait for RTX 4000 Super", and now some of that has turned into "Don't buy RTX 4000 Super, wait for RTX 5000".

I ignored the chatter and got a 4070 in November, but I don't get upset about better value coming out later. That's life. I enjoy what I have rather than obsessing about what I don't have.

 

[Timorous]

It definitely turns up the competitive heat on AMD, and that's likely the point. Plus it gets these refresh cards another review cycle, which is essentially free marketing.

I get a laugh on the some of the online chatter. I have seen a lot of "Don't buy RTX 4000, wait for RTX 4000 Super", and now some of that has turned into "Don't buy RTX 4000 Super, wait for RTX 5000".

I ignored the chatter and got a 4070 in November, but I don't get upset about better value coming out later. That's life. I enjoy what I have rather than obsessing about what I don't have.

If something is maybe a month out and has been announced it is probably worth waiting for but if it is more than a month out then just buy what you want to buy.

 

[Heartbreaker]

If something is maybe a month out and has been announced it is probably worth waiting for but if it is more than a month out then just buy what you want to buy.

Yeah, but a month out, means a month away from the potential short supply, and initial inflated prices until they calm down. So maybe a couple of months until you can get one at MSRP, and would even really much different an experience after that waiting. A GPU in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Since November I already enjoyed over 100 hours (winter Holiday time is prime gaming time) of playing games I simply could not have played without a new card, and 4070 Super is still not available yet... It will be interesting to see how long MSRP pricing takes to get to Amazon.ca.

 

[Timorous]

Yeah, but a month out, means a month away from the potential short supply, and initial inflated prices until they calm down. So maybe a couple of months until you can get one at MSRP, and would even really much different an experience after that waiting. A GPU in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Since November I already enjoyed over 100 hours (winter Holiday time is prime gaming time) of playing games I simply could not have played without a new card, and 4070 Super is still not available yet... It will be interesting to see how long MSRP pricing takes to get to Amazon.ca.

Well November to end of Jan is quite a bit more than a month. OTOH if someone is looking to buy today then waiting till the super cards launch is not a bad idea unless they find a really good deal in which case they can jump on it.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Well November to end of Jan is quite a bit more than a month. OTOH if someone is looking to buy today then waiting till the super cards launch is not a bad idea unless they find a really good deal in which case they can jump on it.

I don't think we had a Super date at the End of November, it was just January, and I got my card near the end of November and people were definitely saying "wait for Super" then, and now that we do have dates, the 4070 Launches the 17th of January.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

If something is maybe a month out and has been announced it is probably worth waiting for but if it is more than a month out then just buy what you want to buy.

-A great time to buy used, especially with gen on gen launches.

Always someone out there who drank the Flavor aid and bought the hype thinking the next gen is going to come in with 100% performance improvements for 50% the price and is trying to unload perfectly good hardware for a song.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I said I'm going to enjoy it for many years, and you said 12GB meant I wouldn't...

Which is absurd.
Who are you to dictate what I enjoy? The happiness police? "Hey, it's 2026, you aren't allowed to enjoy a 12GB card anymore."

To be exact I said "With that 12GB Vram not so sure about that."
Could have worded It a bit differently so It doesn't imply you wouldn't enjoy It, but that you will likely have to sacrifice graphic details in the future.

 

[blckgrffn]

-A great time to buy used, especially with gen on gen launches.

Always someone out there who drank the Flavor aid and bought the hype thinking the next gen is going to come in with 100% performance improvements for 50% the price and is trying to unload perfectly good hardware for a song.

Still kicking myself for not pulling the trigger in what, early 2020 when there was a 2080ti on these forums with a Kraken for like $350 shipped. I looked at it like some seconds after it was posted and honestly the Kraken put me off.

What a bone head. So many folks unloading great cards so they wouldn’t get thumped by the 3080 launch. What a terrible joke that all turned out to be!

I’d say now we are back to some cautious waiting. If you wanted a 4080… well now you could get a 4070ti Super that will probably be so close as to be hard to tell and pocket like $500 difference? Thats the one tier where I think waiting makes the most sense now.

 

[Heartbreaker]

but that you will likely have to sacrifice graphic details in the future.

That applies to every card. Some time in the future you are going to have to turn down settings to play some games. That's so obvious that it doesn't even merit mentioning. It's no big deal.

But as I replied before. I used a 512 MB card into the 2020's...

So I'm kind of immune to VRAM FUD. Which is what that post came across as.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

This is not true though. They used GA107 for the 3050 desktop and laptop, GA106 for the 3060 desktop and laptop, GA104 for the 3070 desktop and laptop. The cuts were not the same, but they were the same chips.

This is not entirely true.
GA107 came to desktop 1.5 year later compared to laptop and almost for a year Nvidia sold a cutdown GA106 as RTX 3050 for desktop.
RTX 3080 Ti Laptop was based on GA103, desktop version used GA102.

Ada is the first generation where they consistently used a lower tier chip for the laptops than for the similarly names desktop cards.

Not true. Both RTX 4060 laptop and desktop use the same AD107.

edit: @Heartbreaker Yeah, I fixed It.

 

[Heartbreaker]

This is not entirely true.
GA107 came to desktop 1.5 year later compared to laptop and almost for a year Nvidia sold a cutdown GA106 as RTX 3050 for desktop.
RTX 3080 Ti Laptop was based on GA103, desktop version used GA102.

Not true. Both RTX 4060 laptop and desktop use the same AD107.

Strange reply. It's kind of out of the blue from some much earlier post, and the post links don't match the quotes.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

That applies to every card. Some time in the future you are going to have to turn down settings to play some games. That's so obvious that it doesn't even merit mentioning. It's no big deal.

But as I replied before. I used a 512 MB card into the 2020's...

So I'm kind of immune to VRAM FUD. Which is what that post came across as.

I had a very interesting encounter with insufficient Vram in Warhammer 3 benchmark at high settings. Textures were simply missing. Not sure why the game didn't use system memory instead. At medium It worked correctly.
Now I am downloading It once more to see what happens with my new 7840HS.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

What's the consensus and the super models?

I think it' snot bad. 4080 Super is mostly a price-cut, the 4070 TI add the dire needed extra RAM, and the 4070 super gets the biggest performance uplift.

But yeah ultimately local pricing will determine success for me or not.

I like 4070 Ti Super the best, but every Super model saw a needed price cut, so I am happy with them.
The question is, If It's better to buy this or wait for the next gen. Who knows, If Nvidia will release next gen this year or next.

 

[Ajay]

I like 4070 Ti Super the best, but every Super model saw a needed price cut, so I am happy with them.
The question is, If It's better to buy this or wait for the next gen. Who knows, If Nvidia will release next gen this year or next.

I agree. The rtx 4070 Ti Super is the card I wanted in the first place. 256b bus and 16GB of GDDR. If I needed a card, that's what I'd buy (though, too bad no FE, they are shorter cards). The upgrade doesn't seem worth it over what I'd get selling my current card used. I wouldn't wait, unless my old card was pretty sad playing newer games (as happened with my old GTX 1070).

 

[GodisanAtheist]

That applies to every card. Some time in the future you are going to have to turn down settings to play some games. That's so obvious that it doesn't even merit mentioning. It's no big deal.

But as I replied before. I used a 512 MB card into the 2020's...

So I'm kind of immune to VRAM FUD. Which is what that post came across as.

- Yeah but what were you actually playing in 2022 with an 8800GT?

Its a DX10 level card so presumably no actual games post 2010-ish or so when DX11 games started coming out in force (there are some DX11 to DX10 wrappers that might get you playing some stuff released into 2012 or so).

Might make it work with a ton of 2D sprite based indie games, but that's not really in the spirit of the argument.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Might make it work with a ton of 2D sprite based indie games, but that's not really in the spirit of the argument.

It's FUD, not an argument.

 

[MrTeal]

Not fuddy but I'd actually be interested in what you were playing on the 8800GT in the last couple years. Was it older titles and/or indie games with really lower specs, or did you manage to get some more mainstream titles running but just at 800x600 low or something with modded texture packs?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

It's FUD, not an argument.

- "I can make a card game for 15 years by simply not playing all the games that don't work on it" isn't much of an argument either.

No beef against your 4070, as far as this gen was concerned it was about as good as it was going to get for most of us with realistically sized budgets, I think the beef is really more with NV and the stinginess with the RAM.

 

[Heartbreaker]

- "I can make a card game for 15 years by simply not playing all the games that don't work on it" isn't much of an argument either.

No beef against your 4070, as far as this gen was concerned it was about as good as it was going to get for most of us with realistically sized budgets, I think the beef is really more with NV and the stinginess with the RAM.

Again, the original statement was just FUD, slamming 12GB on my card.

If want to make that FUD, into an argument what's the alternative?

 

[Heartbreaker]

Not fuddy but I'd actually be interested in what you were playing on the 8800GT in the last couple years. Was it older titles and/or indie games with really lower specs, or did you manage to get some more mainstream titles running but just at 800x600 low or something with modded texture packs?

Older games. Like Dragon Age Origins, and DA2, Fallout New Vegas... I think Pillars of Eternity was the newest game I played on my old card.

Playing Fallout 4 now for the first time. I have Witcher 3 installed and will likely play that next after FO4.