Ahmedinejad wins in a landslide

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yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Meh. It's not like Khatami was able to institute policy changes that lasted very long. No matter the winner of this, Iran will continue to dig itself as deep a hole as possible and even then probably won't be able to turn itself around.

Probably was a close election, but not actually fraudulent. Ahmedinejad has wide support in the country. Let 'em swallow another five years of 18% annual inflation and 20% unemployment and see what they think of their leadership then.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: yllus
Meh. It's not like Khatami was able to institute policy changes that lasted very long. No matter the winner of this, Iran will continue to dig itself as deep a hole as possible and even then probably won't be able to turn itself around.

Probably was a close election, but not actually fraudulent. Ahmedinejad has wide support in the country. Let 'em swallow another five years of 18% annual inflation and 20% unemployment and see what they think of their leadership then.

do you have any idea wtf you're talking about?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,723
14,141
146
The average American doesn't care about Iran in any way...except when the "Chicken Little" machine starts its war propaganda.
"The Iranians are building nuk-u-ler bombs to give to Al Queda terrersts!"
Hell, MOST Americans don't really know anything about Iran beyond the Iranian Hostage debacle of 30 years ago...and what the folks on the right tell us about their nuclear progams...nor, for the most part, do they care.

Personally, beyond hoping for some stability in a completely bat-shit crazy country, I don't care who gets elected...nor if their president denies the right of Israel to exist. (for that matter, most Americans, including me, don't give 2 shits about Israel either.)
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: BoomerD
The average American doesn't care about Iran in any way...except when the "Chicken Little" machine starts its war propaganda.
"The Iranians are building nuk-u-ler bombs to give to Al Queda terrersts!"
Hell, MOST Americans don't really know anything about Iran beyond the Iranian Hostage debacle of 30 years ago...and what the folks on the right tell us about their nuclear progams...nor, for the most part, do they care.

Personally, beyond hoping for some stability in a completely bat-shit crazy country, I don't care who gets elected...nor if their president denies the right of Israel to exist. (for that matter, most Americans, including me, don't give 2 shits about Israel either.)

"most Americans" sound pretty dumb.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,818
4,914
136
Originally posted by: BoomerD
The average American doesn't care about Iran in any way...except when the "Chicken Little" machine starts its war propaganda.
"The Iranians are building nuk-u-ler bombs to give to Al Queda terrersts!"
Hell, MOST Americans don't really know anything about Iran beyond the Iranian Hostage debacle of 30 years ago...and what the folks on the right tell us about their nuclear progams...nor, for the most part, do they care.

Personally, beyond hoping for some stability in a completely bat-shit crazy country, I don't care who gets elected...nor if their president denies the right of Israel to exist. (for that matter, most Americans, including me, don't give 2 shits about Israel either.)






I wouldn't go that far, Boomer.

 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Originally posted by: BoomerD
The average American doesn't care about Iran in any way...except when the "Chicken Little" machine starts its war propaganda.
"The Iranians are building nuk-u-ler bombs to give to Al Queda terrersts!"
Hell, MOST Americans don't really know anything about Iran beyond the Iranian Hostage debacle of 30 years ago...and what the folks on the right tell us about their nuclear progams...nor, for the most part, do they care.

Personally, beyond hoping for some stability in a completely bat-shit crazy country, I don't care who gets elected...nor if their president denies the right of Israel to exist. (for that matter, most Americans, including me, don't give 2 shits about Israel either.)

This.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: yllus
Meh. It's not like Khatami was able to institute policy changes that lasted very long. No matter the winner of this, Iran will continue to dig itself as deep a hole as possible and even then probably won't be able to turn itself around.

Probably was a close election, but not actually fraudulent. Ahmedinejad has wide support in the country. Let 'em swallow another five years of 18% annual inflation and 20% unemployment and see what they think of their leadership then.

do you have any idea wtf you're talking about?

Yes. A much better idea than you do, in fact.

The Iranian People Speak

[The Washington Post's] nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.

The breadth of Ahmadinejad's support was apparent in our preelection survey. During the campaign, for instance, Mousavi emphasized his identity as an Azeri, the second-largest ethnic group in Iran after Persians, to woo Azeri voters. Our survey indicated, though, that Azeris favored Ahmadinejad by 2 to 1 over Mousavi.

Much commentary has portrayed Iranian youth and the Internet as harbingers of change in this election. But our poll found that only a third of Iranians even have access to the Internet, while 18-to-24-year-olds comprised the strongest voting bloc for Ahmadinejad of all age groups.

Iranians view their support for a more democratic system, with normal relations with the United States, as consonant with their support for Ahmadinejad. They do not want him to continue his hard-line policies. Rather, Iranians apparently see Ahmadinejad as their toughest negotiator, the person best positioned to bring home a favorable deal -- rather like a Persian Nixon going to China.

The Western media's love affair about Iran's love affair with it is mostly fantasy. Perhaps continued economic hardship will start changing opinion on the streets of Tehran, but I wouldn't count on it.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: yllus
Meh. It's not like Khatami was able to institute policy changes that lasted very long. No matter the winner of this, Iran will continue to dig itself as deep a hole as possible and even then probably won't be able to turn itself around.

Probably was a close election, but not actually fraudulent. Ahmedinejad has wide support in the country. Let 'em swallow another five years of 18% annual inflation and 20% unemployment and see what they think of their leadership then.

do you have any idea wtf you're talking about?

Yes. A much better idea than you do, in fact.

The Iranian People Speak

[The Washington Post's] nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.

The breadth of Ahmadinejad's support was apparent in our preelection survey. During the campaign, for instance, Mousavi emphasized his identity as an Azeri, the second-largest ethnic group in Iran after Persians, to woo Azeri voters. Our survey indicated, though, that Azeris favored Ahmadinejad by 2 to 1 over Mousavi.

Much commentary has portrayed Iranian youth and the Internet as harbingers of change in this election. But our poll found that only a third of Iranians even have access to the Internet, while 18-to-24-year-olds comprised the strongest voting bloc for Ahmadinejad of all age groups.

Iranians view their support for a more democratic system, with normal relations with the United States, as consonant with their support for Ahmadinejad. They do not want him to continue his hard-line policies. Rather, Iranians apparently see Ahmadinejad as their toughest negotiator, the person best positioned to bring home a favorable deal -- rather like a Persian Nixon going to China.

The Western media's love affair about Iran's love affair with it is mostly fantasy. Perhaps continued economic hardship will start changing opinion on the streets of Tehran, but I wouldn't count on it.

well, as someone who's family lives in iran and as someone who grew up in iranian culture and listened to iranian tv and radio broadcasts, i think i know more than you when it comes to iran.

i can assure you that ahmadinejad was not the favored winner in all provinces, especially by a 2:1 margin.

by the way, you aren't the least bit suspicious how they managed to count all those paper ballots in such a small amount of time?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: eits
well, as someone who's family lives in iran and as someone who grew up in iranian culture and listened to iranian tv and radio broadcasts, i think i know more than you when it comes to iran.

i can assure you that ahmadinejad was not the favored winner in all provinces, especially by a 2:1 margin.

by the way, you aren't the least bit suspicious how they managed to count all those paper ballots in such a small amount of time?

It's nice that you think that. Unfortunately, it's still not true.

Exactly how can you assure me of this anyways? By your anecdotal recounting of the time you talked to a guy or two from over there? I could see how you'd favour that over a scientific poll, or the fact that Mousavi has been a particularly weak candidate until the last week or two of the election.

As I said, it probably was a close election, but not actually fraudulent. Mr. Ahmadinejad did not garner the most votes in Iran's history as the official count would have us believe - the tally is definitely off. Outright election theft, however, I doubt. This is like taking a one-week glimpse of the American federal election while Ron Paul was looking strong and crying fraud at the outcome on election day. Okay, he had a nice spike there, but was never a serious consideration outside of a few demographics.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Neocons Claim Iranian Elections Don?t Matter

Yesterday, the American Prospect?s Dana Goldstein noted that the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), despite warning of the dangers of an Iran led by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, are now suggesting that his possible ouster in today?s elections in Iran will not have any impact on how the Iranian government approaches relations with the West. Goldstein characterized AIPAC?s message this way: ?If you are concerned about the expansion of Iran?s nuclear program, the argument goes, it doesn?t matter whether Ahmadinejad wins or loses.?

L...O...L
 

Ichigo

Platinum Member
Sep 1, 2005
2,158
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: yllus
Meh. It's not like Khatami was able to institute policy changes that lasted very long. No matter the winner of this, Iran will continue to dig itself as deep a hole as possible and even then probably won't be able to turn itself around.

Probably was a close election, but not actually fraudulent. Ahmedinejad has wide support in the country. Let 'em swallow another five years of 18% annual inflation and 20% unemployment and see what they think of their leadership then.

do you have any idea wtf you're talking about?

Yes. A much better idea than you do, in fact.

The Iranian People Speak

[The Washington Post's] nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.

The breadth of Ahmadinejad's support was apparent in our preelection survey. During the campaign, for instance, Mousavi emphasized his identity as an Azeri, the second-largest ethnic group in Iran after Persians, to woo Azeri voters. Our survey indicated, though, that Azeris favored Ahmadinejad by 2 to 1 over Mousavi.

Much commentary has portrayed Iranian youth and the Internet as harbingers of change in this election. But our poll found that only a third of Iranians even have access to the Internet, while 18-to-24-year-olds comprised the strongest voting bloc for Ahmadinejad of all age groups.

Iranians view their support for a more democratic system, with normal relations with the United States, as consonant with their support for Ahmadinejad. They do not want him to continue his hard-line policies. Rather, Iranians apparently see Ahmadinejad as their toughest negotiator, the person best positioned to bring home a favorable deal -- rather like a Persian Nixon going to China.

The Western media's love affair about Iran's love affair with it is mostly fantasy. Perhaps continued economic hardship will start changing opinion on the streets of Tehran, but I wouldn't count on it.

All this is based off the WP's survey, which apparently only consists of a 1001 person sample size. Since we don't know how they rounded up the people that compose of this small sample, the results may be interesting but can hardly be cited as conclusive.

Oh and here: Text
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
If nothing else, the head poo bah grand Ayatollah is now offering to examine the election and make a finding on the rigged or not question.

At least its the first rational thing to do, only the Iranian people can decide if its a white wash or not.

But like our state of Georgia, if a finding says no candidate in a 3 or more man race got 50%, Iran has provisions for a run off election between the top two vote getters.

As of yet, Iran has never allowed international monitoring of its elections, but given the magnitude of the protests, a 2 man runoff election might be the best way to defuse the crisis.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Ichigo
Originally posted by: yllus
The Western media's love affair about Iran's love affair with it is mostly fantasy. Perhaps continued economic hardship will start changing opinion on the streets of Tehran, but I wouldn't count on it.

All this is based off the WP's survey, which apparently only consists of a 1001 person sample size. Since we don't know how they rounded up the people that compose of this small sample, the results may be interesting but can hardly be cited as conclusive.

A scientific survey is a hell of a lot more conclusive than calling the winners based on the Twitter and Facebook posts of the 5% of Iran's youth population that can afford to do use those outlets.

Analysis: Iran election statistics muddy waters further

Nate Silver, a respected US political analyst, concluded: "The statistical evidence is intriguing but, ultimately, inconclusive."

Two US think tank analysts said today that the official results were consistent with an independent telephone poll they conducted three weeks before the vote, which showed Ahmadinejad leading by a two to one margin.

Ken Ballen, the president of Terror Free Tomorrow: The Center for Public Opinion, which studies attitudes toward extremism, and Patrick Doherty, of the New America Foundation, wrote in today's Washington Post: "While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead".
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Ichigo
All this is based off the WP's survey, which apparently only consists of a 1001 person sample size. Since we don't know how they rounded up the people that compose of this small sample, the results may be interesting but can hardly be cited as conclusive.

Yes we do, since they linked to the survey which contains the methodology.

why do you think 1000 ppl isn't sufficient for a sample? Gallup runs its surveys off the same number.

The makeup of the sample is more important, but they apparently used standard randomized sampling so the numbers should certainly be within a standard margin of error.

Certainly seems legit to me: http://www.terrorfreetomorrow....ey%20Report%200609.pdf

If all you looked at was Ron Paul rallies and internet support you'd have thought he'd be president now too.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
If I was an Iranian, no matter how liberal, I would probably hate the west. I would certainly want my country to be strong militarily - nukes included - to deter the American invasion. I'd have to weigh up the pros and cons. Do I want freedom of speech and rights for women or do I want my familiy to survive...

I'm not surprised the extremist won.

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I don't have a side in Iran. And i would rather watch bombs fall while the police are beating on the opposition live from Tehran.

WTF?
 

Ichigo

Platinum Member
Sep 1, 2005
2,158
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
If I was an Iranian, no matter how liberal, I would probably hate the west. I would certainly want my country to be strong militarily - nukes included - to deter the American invasion. I'd have to weigh up the pros and cons. Do I want freedom of speech and rights for women or do I want my familiy to survive...

I'm not surprised the extremist won.

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I don't have a side in Iran. And i would rather watch bombs fall while the police are beating on the opposition live from Tehran.

WTF?

Does this characterization really make sense to you? That's as insane as saying all Americans hate Iran. You haven't properly framed what 'the west' represents in this statement and paint all Iranians as pro-nuclear arms capability. You also insinuate that there's an either-or scenario in terms of human rights and liberties vs. security.

That's dangerous and wrong on so many levels.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Why is it that the rural areas of a country always votes for the nationalist asshat? We had to suffer 2 terms of Bush because of that...

Iran had a real chance to vote for their 'obama'... i honestly don't think Mousavi won (although their may have been inconsistencies or even fraud in the vote, he was still ahead in independent polls), but it's disappointing to see so many of their country bumpkins voting for their Bush again.

I hope the student protests sends a chill up the spines of the Iranian leadership
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: Ichigo
Originally posted by: Atheus
If I was an Iranian, no matter how liberal, I would probably hate the west. I would certainly want my country to be strong militarily - nukes included - to deter the American invasion. I'd have to weigh up the pros and cons. Do I want freedom of speech and rights for women or do I want my familiy to survive...

I'm not surprised the extremist won.

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I don't have a side in Iran. And i would rather watch bombs fall while the police are beating on the opposition live from Tehran.

WTF?

Does this characterization really make sense to you? That's as insane as saying all Americans hate Iran. You haven't properly framed what 'the west' represents in this statement and paint all Iranians as pro-nuclear arms capability. You also insinuate that there's an either-or scenario in terms of human rights and liberties vs. security.

That's dangerous and wrong on so many levels.

Everyone's perspective is skewed by culture and media and all kinds of local prejudice - from my perspecive I'd love to think most Iranians want reform, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the radical viewpoint won out either.

And I'm not insinuating that either-or scenario at all. I'm saying that's what the radicals want people to think.

 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
If I was an Iranian, no matter how liberal, I would probably hate the west. I would certainly want my country to be strong militarily - nukes included - to deter the American invasion. I'd have to weigh up the pros and cons. Do I want freedom of speech and rights for women or do I want my familiy to survive...

I'm not surprised the extremist won.

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I don't have a side in Iran. And i would rather watch bombs fall while the police are beating on the opposition live from Tehran.

WTF?

Majority don't hate the West. They want to be like the West
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: Ichigo

All this is based off the WP's survey, which apparently only consists of a 1001 person sample size. Since we don't know how they rounded up the people that compose of this small sample, the results may be interesting but can hardly be cited as conclusive.

Oh and here: Text

Their sample was around 2,400 - over 600 would not answer the phone and over 700 who answered refused to participate.

Getting an honest response from a telephone sample in Iran asking if you support the President is probably like asking kids at a fat camp if they want a cookie.

 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Atheus
If I was an Iranian, no matter how liberal, I would probably hate the west. I would certainly want my country to be strong militarily - nukes included - to deter the American invasion. I'd have to weigh up the pros and cons. Do I want freedom of speech and rights for women or do I want my familiy to survive..

WTF?

you're so wrong about that. everyone in iran LIKES america. they want iran and america to be friends. they hate their government. they don't give a damn about a strong military... just freedoms.
 
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