Ahmedinejad wins in a landslide

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: libs0n
In Canada we have paper ballots, and results are largely in in that sort of time frame. Sometimes the votes have been counted, and sometimes even the election decided, before polls had even closed on the Western parts of the country.

What matters is that there are adequate amount of counters to ensure timely delivery of their results. I was up late that night, and I would like to provide some of my recollections. Polls were extended because of turnout in certain places. Precincts that were not extended could have counted and delivered their results during that period. The first results were not the complete results. The election was called in Ahmadinejad's favour due to projection of the vote already in.

Your belief that Ahmadinejad could have won the election, but not by the margin given, is but an assumption of your part, based upon your own peculiarities of thought; your feelings on the matter if you will. It is not founded in absolute fact. From what I have gathered over the past few days, to me, a win by Ahmadinejad by that margin is perfectly plausible.

well Iran only has 1 timezone but thanks for playing

 

[libs0n]

Polls close at 8 where I vote. Determined local results are in the 11:30 pm news, and that is after they have been reported in the national coverage. Knowing who won in my riding and the regional ones usually takes an hour or two. Same timezone.

As I said, there was a further item to consider, of non-extended polls counting or reporting prior to the extended ones closing.

Paper ballot processing and the time of the initial returns are not beyond belief.

edit: As well, we do not know the specific procedures of counting used in the Iranian political system.

To summarize: The claim was made that paper ballots cannot be counted in a prompt manner, allowing for a timely determination of results. I made the counterclaim that they can be, as they are in my country. Return of ballots would be a measure of amount of ballots versus amount of counters. If there are enough counters, then ballots can be counted promptly. As well, there are also vagaries specific to this election process. Polls could have counted in the hours when other polls were extended. Perhaps the Iranian system allows for a different counting strategy that would enable the results seen. The actual full count was an ongoing tally and the winner was announced based upon received returns at a time when the full count had not concluded, something that also occurs in my country.

The time of the returns, and the announced winner time is plausible. That it could not be plausible is supposition based upon this false notion of paper ballot time delay and a lack of awareness that the elector announcement was done with a subset of votes counted.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Patranus
Obama: It's up to Iran to determine own leaders

Gotta love this guy. Way to show support to those who believe in freedom around the world. I guess appeasing every two-bit dictator around the world is more important.

That's the smart thing to say.
If no revolution happens then Iran will be pissed off at Obama and they won't sit with the U.S to talk.

So you are doing exactly what they did in Iraq after the first Iraq war. Say that you support "freedom" in the country, encourage the people, and then when the people rise up, don't support them and allow them to get CRUSHED by the government.

wow.

Just ignore him dude, Patranus is a troll who has probably been banned from this site numerous times already.

 

[bamacre]

I'm not sure how much merit this has, but someone might find it interesting...
http://loft965.com/2009/06/17/...iran-election-rigging/

 

[Sinsear]

I hope it all burns.

 

[SP33Demon]

Who gives a sht what they do or who they elect as long as they don't have nukes.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Who gives a sht what they do or who they elect as long as they don't have nukes.

they're going to have nukes - "you can't bomb knowledge"

Originally posted by: bamacre
I'm not sure how much merit this has, but someone might find it interesting...
http://loft965.com/2009/06/17/...iran-election-rigging/

they're also photochopping pictures of imadinnerjacket's rallies to add supporters

photochopped rocket launches, photochopped rallies, can't figure out that vote totals at least stay the same through counting, if not going up. these guys can't do anything right. and now they've completely lost whatever farr they had.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
they're also photochopping pictures of imadinnerjacket's rallies to add supporters

photochopped rocket launches, photochopped rallies

Where did you see this?

If anything I am seeing the opposite, Iranian state TV showing protesters as Ahmadinejad rallies.

 

[Fear No Evil]

As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

No, he's right in staying out of it.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

What do you suggest we do?

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

So are you two suggesting that the USA should meddle in the affairs of a soverign nation again??

We didn't do so fucking great the last time we installed a puppet in Iran...and our meddling didn't do anyone any good in Central America...anyone remember Nicaragua/contras/sandinistas...the Iran-Contra affair?

While the procedings in Iran may be distasteful to those of us who believe that all peoples have the right to a freely elected democratic government, we have no right to interfere when a dictator imposes his will on the people of his country.

The USA should stop trying to be the world's policemen, stop trying to impose our will on other nations, and tend to our own house. Gawd knows, the USA needs lots of work right now...and I'd far rather see the bazillions of dollars we send to countries who hate us be spent right here at home.

Fuck foreign aid...American aid.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

I just finished listening to "The world have your say" on the BBC and they had callers from Iran call in or who were contacted, and they all said, to a tee, "Obama stay out of this"

That is the only correct action at this point in time

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

What do you suggest we do?

More than sitting back trying to appease a mad dictatorship.

They are already accusing us of "intolerable meddling" in the elections, when Obama has done everything and anything to distance himself from the situation! It is crystal clear that the regime in Iran just hates us for being us, not for who is in charge.

The people are crying out for liberty and freedom, but they don't have the means to achieve it. The Iran regime hates our guts...regardless of whomever "won" the election, the puppet master pulling the strings behind the scenes is who runs the show.

This may or may not be a good opportunity to overthrow a dangerous dictatorship, but for goodness' sake, do SOMETHING. The people in Iran aren't rioting because they hate America...they are rioting because they want freedom!

These poor people are screaming out for liberation, and the free world is turning their backs to them, including our president. It is a shame.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

What do you suggest we do?

More than sitting back trying to appease a mad dictatorship.

They are already accusing us of "intolerable meddling" in the elections, when Obama has done everything and anything to distance himself from the situation! It is crystal clear that the regime in Iran just hates us for being us, not for who is in charge.

The people are crying out for liberty and freedom, but they don't have the means to achieve it. The Iran regime hates our guts...regardless of whomever "won" the election, the puppet master pulling the strings behind the scenes is who runs the show.

This may or may not be a good opportunity to overthrow a dangerous dictatorship, but for goodness' sake, do SOMETHING. The people in Iran aren't rioting because they hate America...they are rioting because they want freedom!

These poor people are screaming out for liberation, and the free world is turning their backs to them, including our president. It is a shame.

Fuck em. Remember the Iran hostage year? Those same people you're crying over did NOTHING to help release the US Embassy personnel held by the religious whackos...the same whackos currently in power, although perhaps by a different name.

If they want to be free, let THEM throw off the "chains of oppression" themselves.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

What do you suggest we do?

More than sitting back trying to appease a mad dictatorship.

They are already accusing us of "intolerable meddling" in the elections, when Obama has done everything and anything to distance himself from the situation! It is crystal clear that the regime in Iran just hates us for being us, not for who is in charge.

The people are crying out for liberty and freedom, but they don't have the means to achieve it. The Iran regime hates our guts...regardless of whomever "won" the election, the puppet master pulling the strings behind the scenes is who runs the show.

This may or may not be a good opportunity to overthrow a dangerous dictatorship, but for goodness' sake, do SOMETHING. The people in Iran aren't rioting because they hate America...they are rioting because they want freedom!

These poor people are screaming out for liberation, and the free world is turning their backs to them, including our president. It is a shame.

It is way more complicated than that. The iranian government only grows weaker if we stay out of this, Regardless of the outcome.

We would only strengthen Ahmedinejad with our involvement.


Stop playing checkers and start playing chess

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

What do you suggest we do?

More than sitting back trying to appease a mad dictatorship.

They are already accusing us of "intolerable meddling" in the elections, when Obama has done everything and anything to distance himself from the situation! It is crystal clear that the regime in Iran just hates us for being us, not for who is in charge.

The people are crying out for liberty and freedom, but they don't have the means to achieve it. The Iran regime hates our guts...regardless of whomever "won" the election, the puppet master pulling the strings behind the scenes is who runs the show.

This may or may not be a good opportunity to overthrow a dangerous dictatorship, but for goodness' sake, do SOMETHING. The people in Iran aren't rioting because they hate America...they are rioting because they want freedom!

These poor people are screaming out for liberation, and the free world is turning their backs to them, including our president. It is a shame.

Personally...I'm tired of being world 'policeman' to rid the world of evil dictators...haven't we learned anything yet. If these people want 'freedom' (and the older I get, the more I'm not sure what this word means anymore)...they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way...earn it.

I agree...it's a shame. I agree...there is much evil in the world. But merely saying that we need to more is not really answering my question. What exactly do you think we should do?

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Personally...I'm tired of being world 'policeman' to rid the world of evil dictators...haven't we learned anything yet. If these people want 'freedom' (and the older I get, the more I'm not sure what this word means anymore)...they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way...earn it.

I agree...it's a shame. I agree...there is much evil in the world. But merely saying that we need to more is not really answering my question. What exactly do you think we should do?

I agree with what you're saying. We're the world's babysitter and they hate us for it. However, Obama's response was incredibly weak. I mean, offer strong encouragement to the protesters. Condemn violence against peaceful protests. Offer firm warnings if the election was actually rigged by the regime. Do something, other than try to appease everyone so they all like you!

Iran is a dangerous enemy, and an oppressive dictatorship. This might be an opportunity to remove a crazy regime from and free the people of Iran. There are so many variables involved that I can't say definitively one way or the other. But, I do know Obama's speech was extremely meek. Whatever happened to the president of the US standing up for freedom loving people all over the world? At least show them that we are compassionate to their plight, instead of saying you don't want to "meddle" and doing...nothing.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

No, he's right in staying out of it.

If Obama "intervened" (whatever that means) FNE would be criticizing him for not respecting foreign sovereignty or something. Theres a substantial likelihood no regime change will occur, and then Obama would have to try to negotiate with people for whom he advocated ouster.

In any event, Obama has commented and it spells it out pretty clearly:

?The easiest way for reactionary forces inside Iran to crush reformers is to say it's the U.S. that is encouraging those reformers. So what I've said is, ?Look, it's up to the Iranian people to make a decision. We are not meddling.' And, you know, ultimately the question that the leadership in Iran has to answer is their own credibility in the eyes of the Iranian people. And when you've got 100,000 people who are out on the streets peacefully protesting, and they're having to be scattered through violence and gunshots, what that tells me is the Iranian people are not convinced of the legitimacy of the election.?

 

[Fear No Evil]

I'm not saying we get involved. I'm saying our President should come out and call for a stop to the murdering of innocent protesters, and the arrest of protesters who are calling for change. Thats common sense. Come out and condemn the actions against innocent people. Our President has an obligation to condemn this type of thing. Whats ironic about this is the left often calls for action in places like Darfur.. MORE action than I am calling for in Iran..

I'm asking the President to say he does not approve of the killing of protesters and the arrest of people who disagree with this regime. We have lefties in this forum that want Bush charged with war crimes for waterboarding 3 people. Iran is murdering and arresting people for their political opinion and you all are apparently happy with it.

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

No, he's right in staying out of it.

If Obama "intervened" (whatever that means) FNE would be criticizing him for not respecting foreign sovereignty or something. Theres a substantial likelihood no regime change will occur, and then Obama would have to try to negotiate with people for whom he advocated ouster.

In any event, Obama has commented and it spells it out pretty clearly:

?The easiest way for reactionary forces inside Iran to crush reformers is to say it's the U.S. that is encouraging those reformers. So what I've said is, ?Look, it's up to the Iranian people to make a decision. We are not meddling.' And, you know, ultimately the question that the leadership in Iran has to answer is their own credibility in the eyes of the Iranian people. And when you've got 100,000 people who are out on the streets peacefully protesting, and they're having to be scattered through violence and gunshots, what that tells me is the Iranian people are not convinced of the legitimacy of the election.?

The Iranian Foreign Ministry, meanwhile, summoned the Swiss ambassador, who represents American interests in Tehran, to complain of ?interventionist? statements by American officials, state-run media reported. America and Iran broke off diplomatic relations after the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

Text

Try to do the right thing and... yeah. Awesome.

@BoomerD: Yeah you tell 'em! lol Iranians should learn to get shot at a few times before they get freedom. "Fuck em" lol fuckfuckfuck, what a great word.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Personally...I'm tired of being world 'policeman' to rid the world of evil dictators...haven't we learned anything yet. If these people want 'freedom' (and the older I get, the more I'm not sure what this word means anymore)...they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way...earn it.

I agree...it's a shame. I agree...there is much evil in the world. But merely saying that we need to more is not really answering my question. What exactly do you think we should do?

I agree with what you're saying. We're the world's babysitter and they hate us for it. However, Obama's response was incredibly weak. I mean, offer strong encouragement to the protesters. Condemn violence against peaceful protests. Offer firm warnings if the election was actually rigged by the regime. Do something, other than try to appease everyone so they all like you!

Iran is a dangerous enemy, and an oppressive dictatorship. This might be an opportunity to remove a crazy regime from and free the people of Iran. There are so many variables involved that I can't say definitively one way or the other. But, I do know Obama's speech was extremely meek. Whatever happened to the president of the US standing up for freedom loving people all over the world? At least show them that we are compassionate to their plight, instead of saying you don't want to "meddle" and doing...nothing.

So...you're ready for another war? Countless lives lost, pain and suffering that you and I can't begin to fathom sitting here at our computers in our air conditioned offices. That's your definition of 'compassion'? Perhaps it's more compassionate to let those directly affected weigh the cost of 'freedom' and 'allow' them (how pretentious is that?) to chose their own path without any help from us. Just a thought.

I think you're too quick to criticize Obama on this...cut the guy some slack...let's see how his approach plays out.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Personally...I'm tired of being world 'policeman' to rid the world of evil dictators...haven't we learned anything yet. If these people want 'freedom' (and the older I get, the more I'm not sure what this word means anymore)...they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way...earn it.

I agree...it's a shame. I agree...there is much evil in the world. But merely saying that we need to more is not really answering my question. What exactly do you think we should do?

I agree with what you're saying. We're the world's babysitter and they hate us for it. However, Obama's response was incredibly weak. I mean, offer strong encouragement to the protesters. Condemn violence against peaceful protests. Offer firm warnings if the election was actually rigged by the regime. Do something, other than try to appease everyone so they all like you!

Iran is a dangerous enemy, and an oppressive dictatorship. This might be an opportunity to remove a crazy regime from and free the people of Iran. There are so many variables involved that I can't say definitively one way or the other. But, I do know Obama's speech was extremely meek. Whatever happened to the president of the US standing up for freedom loving people all over the world? At least show them that we are compassionate to their plight, instead of saying you don't want to "meddle" and doing...nothing.

So...you're ready for another war? Countless lives lost, pain and suffering that you and I can't begin to fathom sitting here at our computers in our air conditioned offices. That's your definition of 'compassion'? Perhaps it's more compassionate to let those directly affected weigh the cost of 'freedom' and 'allow' them (how pretentious is that?) to chose their own path without any help from us. Just a thought.

I think you're too quick to criticize Obama on this...cut the guy some slack...let's see how his approach plays out.

The Iran regime has already accused us of "intolerable meddling", even though Obama is trying his best to distance himself as far as possible from this and "say all the right things"!

"TEHRAN, Iran ? Iran accused the United States on Wednesday of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, alleging for the first time that Washington has fueled a bitter postelection dispute."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...mi_ea/ml_iran_election

I mean, good grief, how much more clear can it be that appeasement diplomacy will not work with these insane dictatorships?!

And if you read my post, I said it might (I even bolded it in my other post) be the right action to intervene. And as I also said in my post, there are too many factors that I have no clue about to be able to say so decisively.

You really think that these unarmed civilian protesters will be able to overthrow a heavily armed and loyal military regime? Are you that naive?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Personally...I'm tired of being world 'policeman' to rid the world of evil dictators...haven't we learned anything yet. If these people want 'freedom' (and the older I get, the more I'm not sure what this word means anymore)...they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way...earn it.

I agree...it's a shame. I agree...there is much evil in the world. But merely saying that we need to more is not really answering my question. What exactly do you think we should do?

I agree with what you're saying. We're the world's babysitter and they hate us for it. However, Obama's response was incredibly weak. I mean, offer strong encouragement to the protesters. Condemn violence against peaceful protests. Offer firm warnings if the election was actually rigged by the regime. Do something, other than try to appease everyone so they all like you!

Iran is a dangerous enemy, and an oppressive dictatorship. This might be an opportunity to remove a crazy regime from and free the people of Iran. There are so many variables involved that I can't say definitively one way or the other. But, I do know Obama's speech was extremely meek. Whatever happened to the president of the US standing up for freedom loving people all over the world? At least show them that we are compassionate to their plight, instead of saying you don't want to "meddle" and doing...nothing.

So...you're ready for another war? Countless lives lost, pain and suffering that you and I can't begin to fathom sitting here at our computers in our air conditioned offices. That's your definition of 'compassion'? Perhaps it's more compassionate to let those directly affected weigh the cost of 'freedom' and 'allow' them (how pretentious is that?) to chose their own path without any help from us. Just a thought.

I think you're too quick to criticize Obama on this...cut the guy some slack...let's see how his approach plays out.

The Iran regime has already accused us of "intolerable meddling", even though Obama is trying his best to distance himself as far as possible from this and "say all the right things"!

"TEHRAN, Iran ? Iran accused the United States on Wednesday of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, alleging for the first time that Washington has fueled a bitter postelection dispute."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...mi_ea/ml_iran_election

I mean, good grief, how much more clear can it be that appeasement diplomacy will not work with these insane dictatorships?!

And if you read my post, I said it might (I even bolded it in my other post) be the right action to intervene. And as I also said in my post, there are too many factors that I have no clue about to be able to say so decisively.

You really think that these unarmed civilian protesters will be able to overthrow a heavily armed and loyal military regime? Are you that naive?

Sigh...OK, if it'll make you happy...I hereby amend my comment to say that you might be ready for another war. Otherwise, my comments stand as written.

Firstly...I gave no opinion whether or not "unarmed civilian protesters will be able to overthrow a heavily armed and loyal military regime"...yet you call me 'naive' for thinking so. Please don't put your words into my mouth and then use them to insult me.

Secondly...are you actually advocating that your hardline rhetoric will accomplish a better response from Tehran? You and I both know better...yet you use this as a club to beat Obama over the head. Consider this...maybe Obama's approach to this situation has more to do with other nations than with the predictible rhetoric coming out of Tehran.