Ahmedinejad wins in a landslide

[hydroponik]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Personally...I'm tired of being world 'policeman' to rid the world of evil dictators...haven't we learned anything yet. If these people want 'freedom' (and the older I get, the more I'm not sure what this word means anymore)...they're going to have to do it the old fashioned way...earn it.

I agree...it's a shame. I agree...there is much evil in the world. But merely saying that we need to more is not really answering my question. What exactly do you think we should do?

I agree with what you're saying. We're the world's babysitter and they hate us for it. However, Obama's response was incredibly weak. I mean, offer strong encouragement to the protesters. Condemn violence against peaceful protests. Offer firm warnings if the election was actually rigged by the regime. Do something, other than try to appease everyone so they all like you!

Iran is a dangerous enemy, and an oppressive dictatorship. This might be an opportunity to remove a crazy regime from and free the people of Iran. There are so many variables involved that I can't say definitively one way or the other. But, I do know Obama's speech was extremely meek. Whatever happened to the president of the US standing up for freedom loving people all over the world? At least show them that we are compassionate to their plight, instead of saying you don't want to "meddle" and doing...nothing.

So...you're ready for another war? Countless lives lost, pain and suffering that you and I can't begin to fathom sitting here at our computers in our air conditioned offices. That's your definition of 'compassion'? Perhaps it's more compassionate to let those directly affected weigh the cost of 'freedom' and 'allow' them (how pretentious is that?) to chose their own path without any help from us. Just a thought.

I think you're too quick to criticize Obama on this...cut the guy some slack...let's see how his approach plays out.

The Iran regime has already accused us of "intolerable meddling", even though Obama is trying his best to distance himself as far as possible from this and "say all the right things"!

"TEHRAN, Iran ? Iran accused the United States on Wednesday of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, alleging for the first time that Washington has fueled a bitter postelection dispute."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...mi_ea/ml_iran_election

I mean, good grief, how much more clear can it be that appeasement diplomacy will not work with these insane dictatorships?!

And if you read my post, I said it might (I even bolded it in my other post) be the right action to intervene. And as I also said in my post, there are too many factors that I have no clue about to be able to say so decisively.

You really think that these unarmed civilian protesters will be able to overthrow a heavily armed and loyal military regime? Are you that naive?

Your post and rationale just make it look like you're bitter. I think no matter what Obama said, you'd find a reason to criticize.

 

[TechBoyJK]

My gut feeling is that the Regime is going to hang itself, lose a ton of credibility, destroy any semblance of democracy that the Iranian citizens thought they had, and spur another revolution. Whether or not it would be successful, I'm not sure. But these protests and riots are crazy huge.

EDIT: People can say we shouldn't help because of the revolution in the 70's with the American hostages, I think they are failing to forgive and forget, and consider that a large chunk of those protesting in Iran today weren't even born then. I dated an Iranian girl, and she too thought her leaders were crazy and she was glad to be in America. Can you imagine what would have happened if Bush was permananetly installed as President? His ass would have been tossed out eventually.

 

[bamacre]

Some more pics...
(caution, some may be graphic)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/f...2157619758530748/show/


Seems to be confirmed reports that Hezbolah & Hamas are there and helping Basiji.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: ElFenix
they're also photochopping pictures of imadinnerjacket's rallies to add supporters

photochopped rocket launches, photochopped rallies

Where did you see this?

If anything I am seeing the opposite, Iranian state TV showing protesters as Ahmadinejad rallies.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...opped-to-Appear-Larger


someone needs to put pedobear and some of those missiles in there. and that iraqi press guy who claimed there weren't any american tanks in iraq as M1s rolled down the street behind him.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: ElFenix
they're also photochopping pictures of imadinnerjacket's rallies to add supporters

photochopped rocket launches, photochopped rallies

Where did you see this?

If anything I am seeing the opposite, Iranian state TV showing protesters as Ahmadinejad rallies.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...opped-to-Appear-Larger


someone needs to put pedobear and some of those missiles in there. and that iraqi press guy who claimed there weren't any american tanks in iraq as M1s rolled down the street behind him.

Oh, I see. My fault, I totally misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Ichigo

@BoomerD: Yeah you tell 'em! lol Iranians should learn to get shot at a few times before they get freedom. "Fuck em" lol fuckfuckfuck, what a great word.

IMO, that entire part of the world is not worth the life of a single US serviceman.

If the Iranians want freedom, let them fight for it. Why should we sacrifice OUR men and women if they won't?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
I'm not saying we get involved. I'm saying our President should come out and call for a stop to the murdering of innocent protesters, and the arrest of protesters who are calling for change. Thats common sense. Come out and condemn the actions against innocent people. Our President has an obligation to condemn this type of thing. Whats ironic about this is the left often calls for action in places like Darfur.. MORE action than I am calling for in Iran..

I'm asking the President to say he does not approve of the killing of protesters and the arrest of people who disagree with this regime. We have lefties in this forum that want Bush charged with war crimes for waterboarding 3 people. Iran is murdering and arresting people for their political opinion and you all are apparently happy with it.

How do you know the protesters are completely innocent? It's like the LA riots in the 90s, you can't trust any information coming out. One person says it's completely peaceful, another says people are throwing bricks and setting fires. From my experience, there's no such thing as a peaceful demonstration when there's several hundred thousand people. The vast majority may be peaceful, but there are always a few rotten eggs.

The news, it cannot be trusted. There's going to be huge spin on any piece of news coming out of Iran. It's just how our media works. Everything coming from Iran is simply anectodes, not reliable as a source of news, no more than someone saying that green tea cured their breast cancer. One case does not make a trend.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
The news, it cannot be trusted. There's going to be huge spin on any piece of news coming out of Iran. It's just how our media works. Everything coming from Iran is simply anectodes, not reliable as a source of news, no more than someone saying that green tea cured their breast cancer. One case does not make a trend.

Too bad they kicked out all the reporters, so we can't get "real" news.

Why bother blocking all these websites (and according to NPR even proxy servers) text messages, email etc. if there's nothing to hide and it's just a few college kids with too much time on their hands?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: libs0n
Polls close at 8 where I vote. Determined local results are in the 11:30 pm news, and that is after they have been reported in the national coverage. Knowing who won in my riding and the regional ones usually takes an hour or two. Same timezone.

As I said, there was a further item to consider, of non-extended polls counting or reporting prior to the extended ones closing.

Paper ballot processing and the time of the initial returns are not beyond belief.

edit: As well, we do not know the specific procedures of counting used in the Iranian political system.

To summarize: The claim was made that paper ballots cannot be counted in a prompt manner, allowing for a timely determination of results. I made the counterclaim that they can be, as they are in my country. Return of ballots would be a measure of amount of ballots versus amount of counters. If there are enough counters, then ballots can be counted promptly. As well, there are also vagaries specific to this election process. Polls could have counted in the hours when other polls were extended. Perhaps the Iranian system allows for a different counting strategy that would enable the results seen. The actual full count was an ongoing tally and the winner was announced based upon received returns at a time when the full count had not concluded, something that also occurs in my country.

The time of the returns, and the announced winner time is plausible. That it could not be plausible is supposition based upon this false notion of paper ballot time delay and a lack of awareness that the elector announcement was done with a subset of votes counted.

from what i understand, iran does not use the paper ballots you are talking about. Instead, you right a name on a piece of paper and put it in the slot. VERY different

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Ichigo

@BoomerD: Yeah you tell 'em! lol Iranians should learn to get shot at a few times before they get freedom. "Fuck em" lol fuckfuckfuck, what a great word.

IMO, that entire part of the world is not worth the life of a single US serviceman.

If the Iranians want freedom, let them fight for it. Why should we sacrifice OUR men and women if they won't?

The only way real freedom is won anywhere in the world is if the people who want it stand up and fight for it. Same could be said ofn Iraq and why we shouldn't of been there to begin with at all. If the Iraqis are not willing to fight for their freedom then they don't deserve it. Just as the Iranians should stand up and fight for theirs. I will admit that giving some "limited" support is okay if the people in Iran show enough back bone to continue their fight.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran.

and bravo for him for doing so. the iranian people don't want our help fixing their government.

1, it'll cause more tension
2, the world will be upset for us doing what we said we weren't going to do anymore by electing obama
3, the iranian people need to fix their government on their own... that's the only way a government stands a chance.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
As innocent protesters get killed, arrested, beaten... Obama sits back and doesn't want to 'meddle' in the affairs of Iran. Of course they are accusing him of it anyway. He should come out an condemn the actions of Iran immediately.

This is so ironic, amusing and sad. The ironic and amusing part is that Obama takes the total do nothing/appeasement approach, and Iran STILL accuses him of "meddling". When will it actually sink in that appeasement diplomacy doesn't work for nutjob dictatorships?

The sad part is that these protesters are putting their lives on the line, because they are crying out for liberation, and the leader of the beacon for democracy in the free world stands idly by and...does nothing.

So are you two suggesting that the USA should meddle in the affairs of a soverign nation again??

We didn't do so fucking great the last time we installed a puppet in Iran...and our meddling didn't do anyone any good in Central America...anyone remember Nicaragua/contras/sandinistas...the Iran-Contra affair?

While the procedings in Iran may be distasteful to those of us who believe that all peoples have the right to a freely elected democratic government, we have no right to interfere when a dictator imposes his will on the people of his country.

The USA should stop trying to be the world's policemen, stop trying to impose our will on other nations, and tend to our own house. Gawd knows, the USA needs lots of work right now...and I'd far rather see the bazillions of dollars we send to countries who hate us be spent right here at home.

Fuck foreign aid...American aid.

word.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Its a shame owning a gun in Iran is against the law.

dude, agreed! you don't know how many times i've sat there watching these innocent people bloodied up by getting shot by guns and thinking, "i really wish these people had the right to use weapons". iran's situation is EXACTLY why we have a 2nd amendment... in case some bullshit like this happens and we need to take the power back.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Aimster
Its a shame owning a gun in Iran is against the law.

dude, agreed! you don't know how many times i've sat there watching these innocent people bloodied up by getting shot by guns and thinking, "i really wish these people had the right to use weapons". iran's situation is EXACTLY why we have a 2nd amendment... in case some bullshit like this happens and we need to take the power back.

Up against tanks?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Aimster
Its a shame owning a gun in Iran is against the law.

dude, agreed! you don't know how many times i've sat there watching these innocent people bloodied up by getting shot by guns and thinking, "i really wish these people had the right to use weapons". iran's situation is EXACTLY why we have a 2nd amendment... in case some bullshit like this happens and we need to take the power back.

Up against tanks?

2nd Admendment DURRRRRR

Realistically, the only way governments get toppled nowadays are if they lose the support of the military. You honestly think an Iranian situation in the US would be better with guns? What are you going to do? Shoot at a Bradley with your .303? Bring down an Apache with your .45? However, if the government lost the support of the military that's a different story. Laws and regulations don't mean much when there's a full division controlling Washington DC.

There was a time when guns could have scared the government. Not anymore.

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Ichigo

@BoomerD: Yeah you tell 'em! lol Iranians should learn to get shot at a few times before they get freedom. "Fuck em" lol fuckfuckfuck, what a great word.

IMO, that entire part of the world is not worth the life of a single US serviceman.

If the Iranians want freedom, let them fight for it. Why should we sacrifice OUR men and women if they won't?

Hi.

There's a difference between understanding that we can't just throw troops at Iran to try to solve the problem and empathizing with actual human beings. Your problem with the latter disturbs me.

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
I'm not saying we get involved. I'm saying our President should come out and call for a stop to the murdering of innocent protesters, and the arrest of protesters who are calling for change. Thats common sense. Come out and condemn the actions against innocent people. Our President has an obligation to condemn this type of thing. Whats ironic about this is the left often calls for action in places like Darfur.. MORE action than I am calling for in Iran..

I'm asking the President to say he does not approve of the killing of protesters and the arrest of people who disagree with this regime. We have lefties in this forum that want Bush charged with war crimes for waterboarding 3 people. Iran is murdering and arresting people for their political opinion and you all are apparently happy with it.

How do you know the protesters are completely innocent? It's like the LA riots in the 90s, you can't trust any information coming out. One person says it's completely peaceful, another says people are throwing bricks and setting fires. From my experience, there's no such thing as a peaceful demonstration when there's several hundred thousand people. The vast majority may be peaceful, but there are always a few rotten eggs.

The news, it cannot be trusted. There's going to be huge spin on any piece of news coming out of Iran. It's just how our media works. Everything coming from Iran is simply anectodes, not reliable as a source of news, no more than someone saying that green tea cured their breast cancer. One case does not make a trend.

Videos are anecdotal? That's a primary source and there are many, many videos.

I'm not sure what you're trying to insinuate. Sure, network news coverage is spun, but that's why you probably shouldn't be watching Fox or CNN to get new on Iran. Just follow it online.

 

[Patranus]

Watched the speech by Mr. Supreme Leader live on CNN.

It is nice to see him say that the US/West is "meddling" in the electoral process. Good to see Obama's strategy of saying nothing so they don't accuse the US of "meddling" is working out. Now Obama has alienated the reformists AND they still accused the US of "meddling". Good times.

 

[frostedflakes]

Well if Ali Khamenei and Ahmadinejad are saying it then it must be true. :roll:

Khamenei didn't happen to provide any examples of said "meddling," did he? Maybe that's because it doesn't exist.

 

[Pocatello]

Ah yes, the good ol' "Death to America" chant.

 

[Lemon law]

Ali Khamenei has spoken, says the election was not rigged. We will see if the Iranian people accept the whitewash or not.

 

[da loser]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ali Khamenei has spoken, says the election was not rigged. We will see if the Iranian people accept the whitewash or not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06...st/20iran.html?_r=1&hp

In his first public response to days of protests, Iran?s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, sternly warned opponents Friday to stay off the streets and denied opposition claims that last week?s disputed election was rigged, praising the ballot as an ?epic moment that became a historic moment.?


he just upped the stakes

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Watched the speech by Mr. Supreme Leader live on CNN.

It is nice to see him say that the US/West is "meddling" in the electoral process. Good to see Obama's strategy of saying nothing so they don't accuse the US of "meddling" is working out. Now Obama has alienated the reformists AND they still accused the US of "meddling". Good times.

Don't you have a bridge to hide under?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ali Khamenei has spoken, says the election was not rigged. We will see if the Iranian people accept the whitewash or not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06...st/20iran.html?_r=1&hp

In his first public response to days of protests, Iran?s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, sternly warned opponents Friday to stay off the streets and denied opposition claims that last week?s disputed election was rigged, praising the ballot as an ?epic moment that became a historic moment.?


he just upped the stakes

The separation of powers may be a fallacy, but such blatant interference proves that we were right to at least try: Church and State need to be as far from one another as possible.

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I can't believe people are shocked or surprised by the results. Like i said in the other thread, college kids in Tehran may be in the news and on tv but I rather doubt they make up more than a tiny percentage of votes. The rest of the country appears to think Achmadinejihad is the face of the future.


I am having a great laugh today at the expense of those of you who have for months now thought there was actually some kind of Obama-esque wave that was going to sweep across Iran.

Funny how a week can expose someone for being the total douche they are.

I suppose the thousands (millions?) of people protesting (lives at risk) is the majority that believes Ahmadinejad is the face of the future? :roll:

I'm sorry, I don't mean to thread crap, I don't usually pay attention to trolls or post when I'm angry, but your comments piss me off. Fvck you.

You will find that you have much in common with Ahmadinejad if you believe bombing countries off the face of the map are solutions to world problems.

Good luck to the protesters :thumbsup:

 

[Phokus]

Much has been said that there isn't too big a difference between Mousavi and Ahmadinejad's... however, ther are other reformists in Iran that i think are more attractive than Mousavi... for example Mehdi Karoubbi. I could really get behind this guy:

His 2009 electoral declaration:

1. Returning to the planned-based system of governing and using the elite and experts in decision making process
2. Organizing financial policies and increasing the effect of national budget
3. Protecting human rights and people's privacy
4. Improving women's social status
5. Nationalizing oil profits
6. Supporting NGOs
7. Supporting the right of religious or tribal minorities
8. Supporting the domination of law and opposing and criticizing illegal behavior
9. Supporting the press and free access to the information and internet

His foreign policy:

Karroubi and the National Trust Party support the idea of dialogue with the United States aiming at resolving long standing conflicts. Early after the election of Barack Obama as US president, Karroubi stated that the changes from the United States have been positive. "An important step has been taken.... I will take steps forward in this relation in accordance with national interests and national pride", he said. [9]

Karroubi has been a critic of President Ahmadinejad's foreign policy and his famous remarks about Holocaust. Karroubi said: "The Holocaust is an event which did take place."[10]. He believes that the president's remarks cost Iran a great deal.[11]

Karroubi's campaign video (kind of a ripoff of Obama)