AMD is sandbagging

[ForumMaster]

well, from some benchmarks i've seen, i think barcelona might be equal to penryn. but no better. it will help AMD but it won't crush intel.

 

[apoppin]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40221
theInq's take ... pretty bleak for AMD fans

... he feelings among the crowd vary from the mobo vendors complaints about mainboards for AM2+ and Socket G made ready, but no new chips to insert, to an AMD channel partner feeling stuffed, very literally, with a load of current AM2 chips and no takers for them. Why should there be any, when Phenom was supposed to be the next sales phenomenon and sweep the market off its feet? Luckily, Cray wasn't at the show to shed tears over its grievances.

Whether I asked AMD or partners, the Phenom answer on the availability was - "doing our best" or, more often, "no comment". That is far worse than what I was hearing a few months ago.

At the same time, Intel gloated in a probably deserved show victory, with Penryns in multiple PC, workstation and server configurations shown to all and sundry. No hidden tables or secret rooms there, anyone could play with them. The 3.33GHz/FSB 1333 desktop and 3.2GHz/FSB1600 workstatind and server platforms were out with clear specs. Practically, they could have as well officially launched the CPUs - except that, at the official launch, the speeds may be even higher.

Further adding insult to injury, many existing boards using Nforce 680i and Intel P35 chipsets were announced to have full Penryn support - at full FSB speed too, that is. So, if in the mood, without changing anything else, many "enthusiasts" could upgrade the CPUs in their current souped-up PCs and keep their monster systems fully in the fashion and on top of the performance pyramid, at least till Nehalems roll in late next year - all it takes is a BIOS update at most.

One Intel exec told me that, after seeing the Phenom(enal) fiasco on the show, he felt there may not even have been a need to rush out Penryns so fast, but, since the 45 nm newbie is pretty much ready, may as well let it roll and cement the lead - the train has departed the station, so stepping on the accelerators is the only choice.

If this situation continues and AMD doesn't correct the problem real soon, the victim will not only be AMD's share price - we're talking far more serious consequences, not limited to the vendors asking tough questions. The IT world just wouldn't be the same if AMD falters, even temporarily - proper, timely Barcelona/Agena execution is really "to be or not to be" for the company. ...

i *hope* AMD is sandbagging ... but i really doubt it

 

[Idontcare]

Strategically speaking, there is very little upside to a strategy involving sandbagging for AMD at this time (not saying zero upside, saying little upside) relative to the immense downside to eroding market confidence (equity pools and customers alike) in their business model.

The company that gains a strategic upperhand by sandbagging their roadmap at this time is Intel. They stand much upside to gain by sandbagging penryn and nehalem (both timeline and performance) relative to the downside posed to potential erosion of existing market confidence from said sandbagging.

So do I beleive AMD is sandbagging? Absolutely not. Did Intel sandbag Conroe performance when they had their P4 asses being handed back to them by the X2 and FX?

For the same reasons Intel boasted C2D performance ahead of shipment, AMD strategists would be arguing internally right now to do their best to do the same.

the proof of this is the fact that AMD is trying their best to boast, to not give the impression of sandbagging, in every official capacity they have. Notice the sandbagging claims is from fanboys, media, and spurned channel partners.

AMD on the other hand is busy as ever attempting their best touting 40% SpecFP boosts (IIRC) and even going to lenghts of publishing simulated 2.6GHz results showing superiority over Intel.

That's not sandbagging...that's desperation.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: UncivilizedAMD

It's commonly accepted that C2D holds a ~20% advantage, clock for clock against X2 whether stock or overclocked. 5-6% is ludicrous.

Please show me one benchmark that proves this..... You can use price/price ratio if you like.

You're actually serious, aren't you?

First off the links provided are not price/price ratio. I do not give a crap if you compare mhz/mhz.

Wait... you didn't say what kind of benchmarks he had to use. Now he has to use price/price ratio? Even if you meant price/performance ratio, the C2D would definitely win if you allowed OCing. If you didn't, it might still win depending on AMD's price cuts.

I didn't think we still had retarded CPU fanboys around.

 

[Heinrich]

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

Buying whatever you want is the American way.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

Excellent response! He is going to show Intel his disgust by using a slower and more expensive competitor's product. Way to show the man! :laugh:

 

[idgaf13]

I find it unfortunate that so many people will reference and quote The Inquirer when
it seems so obvious that their articles of late are not as balanced as in the past.
They seem to forget or just not include certain elements in stories that in the past would have been mentioned and given at least a cursory examination.
I have been disappointed with the lack of quality coming from theinq.
In Dec. 06 or early Jan 07 Charlie wrote several articles that predicted this year and who developed the technologies that are currently being used.
Those few articles were the end of unbiased reporting ,so it seems.
AMD has a lot of work on their plate currently

1)Get both Fab plants in Dresden up to respectable yields after retooling and do it with extremely complicated cpu architecture.

2)Integrate two companies ,AMD and ATI, with employees that speak distinctly different languages ,English,German and sundry asian languages (Quantity unknown).

3)Work with Dell to satisfy contracts,Dell requires help with engineering it is not just a sales job..

4)Work with Microsoft to gain edge with Vista functionality.

So for a small company with limited financial resources ,AMD is doing well.
If they had the financial resources and the quantity of Fabs as Intel,
well Intel would be history.
Intel said 50% of their production would be 45nm within 18 months ,I believe.
What happens to all the other fab plants ?
Close them and fire employees ?
Those plants are very expensive to build ,who can afford to write them off like that ?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: idgaf13
I find it unfortunate that so many people will reference and quote The Inquirer when
it seems so obvious that their articles of late are not as balanced as in the past.
They seem to forget or just not include certain elements in stories that in the past would have been mentioned and given at least a cursory examination.
I have been disappointed with the lack of quality coming from theinq.
In Dec. 06 or early Jan 07 Charlie wrote several articles that predicted this year and who developed the technologies that are currently being used.
Those few articles were the end of unbiased reporting ,so it seems.
AMD has a lot of work on their plate currently

1)Get both Fab plants in Dresden up to respectable yields after retooling and do it with extremely complicated cpu architecture.

2)Integrate two companies ,AMD and ATI, with employees that speak distinctly different languages ,English,German and sundry asian languages (Quantity unknown).

3)Work with Dell to satisfy contracts,Dell requires help with engineering it is not just a sales job..

4)Work with Microsoft to gain edge with Vista functionality.

So for a small company with limited financial resources ,AMD is doing well.
If they had the financial resources and the quantity of Fabs as Intel,
well Intel would be history.
Intel said 50% of their production would be 45nm within 18 months ,I believe.
What happens to all the other fab plants ?
Close them and fire employees ?
Those plants are very expensive to build ,who can afford to write them off like that ?

They get upgraded. Firing a fab once the tech is out is almost the same as firing a design team once they finish a processor. It's a valuable resource that you don't want to throw away once they're done.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

 

[Nathelion]

Originally posted by: amenx
AMD could be underestimating what Intel can do: 16 core AMD Barcelona system vs Intel 8 core. It would be a severe blow to AMD if they cant do better than this when Barcelona comes out. Keep in mind that during this time Intel is hard at work too, and their R & D is backed by deeper coffers than AMD.

Link broken

 

[apoppin]

not broken

ntel demoed its V8 workstation running the POV-Ray benchmark. The machine is equipped with Intel's Workstation Board S5000XVN, 2 quad-core Xeons 5365, clocked at 3GHz and 16GB RAM. And the results are simply impressive: Intel scored over 4,900 pixels per seconds versus a little bit over 4,000 for AMD's 4 sockets quad-core (Barcelona) system. Again, this is an AMD 16 cores system versus Intel's 8 cores V8 machine.

If you take 16 cores at 1.8Ghz, divided by 2 and add 60% to get to 3.0Ghz, it gives POV-Ray score of 3600 for 8 cores. Meaning that at 3.0GHz, Barcelona still lose by quite some compare to an 8 cores Clowertown system.




"Why do you need 16 cores, when you can do better with 8. Our 8 core system is 30% faster than the 16 core machine AMD showed to the press yesterday. I just don't understand how they can claim to be 40% faster", said Francois Piednoel, an Intel engineer present at the show.

Well, now AMD has some explanation to do and sooner rather than later. Because if they can't figure out what happened with those POV-Ray results they showed us, that's the end of it. At the show, Intel also demoed a system with a 45nm Penryn quad-core processor (shipping by year end, about the same time than Barcelona!) that is 40% faster than the top of the line quad-core generation, the Core 2 Extreme processor QX6800.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

Ever heard of "survival of the fittest"?

It works in business too.

There are people like you in the world of nature too

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

Ever heard of "survival of the fittest"?

It works in business too.

There are people like you in the world of nature too

The people with a 320d's wonT die, nor the people who bought AMD

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

Why are you proud of your M3? You just bought it. You didn't build it or design it. The only thing you can be proud of, is having the money to purchase the car. Your proud of the "status" of your ability to "own" said car. Nothing more.

 

[shady28]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

AMD is still quite competitive on the cost / performance front. The problem comes when you go to e6600 or higher performance with intel / AMD - AMD doesn't have anything to compete there except the FX70/72/74, and those are major power hogs.

However, most people don't have anything greater than an e6600, and AMD has good alternatives for the price. Especially when you take into consideration that AM2 motherboards are generally less expensive and often have more features than equivalent socket 775 boards.

See here for reference. This is basically a tie between the e6600 and the X2 6000+, and they are very close in price. The first place I went to, zipzoomfly, had exactly the same price for the 6000+ and the e6600 :

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...howdoc.aspx?i=2933&p=8

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens
LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

You're right, it is free choice. But this is the kind of choice I find laughable, like a person who spends 20x more for "sea salt", or 10x more for "organic cat litter", or obnoxiously announce that they only drink "fair trade coffee" at the coffee joint and pay more for it. They think it helps make the world a better place when it doesn't.

 

[rise]

what about my HE 80+ PSU? :Q

lol

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens
LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

You're right, it is free choice. But this is the kind of choice I find laughable, like a person who spends 20x more for "sea salt", or 10x more for "organic cat litter", or obnoxiously announce that they only drink "fair trade coffee" at the coffee joint and pay more for it. They think it helps make the world a better place when it doesn't.

Maybe but I just think you were kinda hard on the guy...

If we lived by logic, all of us.....Then the world would be different, I wouldnt have an M3, Id have a prius and that guy woud have a core 2 instead of an AMD set up...But its choice.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

Why are you proud of your M3? You just bought it. You didn't build it or design it. The only thing you can be proud of, is having the money to purchase the car. Your proud of the "status" of your ability to "own" said car. Nothing more.

Whats that got to do with someone dissing another guy of his set up?? If your proud of it then stick to it, dont let ppl put you down for it. Some ppl will always buy AMD fact. Some will be proud of it, some wont care. It's a free world.

 

[Regs]

I love the Cracker Barrel. That doesn't make me a red neck. They just make good food.


I love AMD. That doesn't make me a gullible self-guilt moralist. They did good for competition.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Heinrich

I just spent $525 on a new AMD AM2 platform. I typically tend to buy things based on factors that are not just 'me-centric.' I don't buy Exxon gas because of how they handled the Valdez crisis. I don't go to Cracker Barrel because of how they've treated minorities. And I don't buy Intel because they play nasty games and I suspect that if we could shed some light on some of the 'confidential' negotiations between Intel and Dell , as just one example, we would find serious anti-trust issues. I feel it's more 'American' to support companies that provide more choice to the consumer and who are more responsible citizens of the world. I realize I am in the minority as many people just buy and use their money for 'what's best for me me me me me me me me.'

LOL, lots of companies have marketing lines for the gullible self-guilt moralist. Enjoy your inferior, overpriced products.

It's free choice. Next time I'll laugh at someone running while I drive down the same street.

You should not criticize this guy. Oh wait you work for Intel..

I have a M3 which I'm proud of , but I wouldnt laugh or put down someone who had a 320 or 320D.

I would of thought that a hard working, intelligent Intel worker wouldnt go so far. Fair enough, whatever makes you feel better

Ever heard of "survival of the fittest"?

It works in business too.

There are people like you in the world of nature too

The people with a 320d's wonT die, nor the people who bought AMD

You apparently didnt connect the dots the way i wanted them to be...

The company is doing sh!tty because it doesnt have a competitive product. I didnt mean any relation to the buyers at all. I was just talking about this guy "taking the moral high ground" by buying AMD.

 

[Heinrich]

"Taking the moral high ground" describes a hypocritical situation such as a Christan promoting going to war regardless of the loss of innocent lives and clarity of purpose. Or a politician talking about promoting family values when he himself has been divorced a few times. That's "taking the moral high ground."

I am not "taking the moral high ground". I am describing a process of 'voting with my money' in a more complex way than caring about MYSELF and ME. Try it sometime. I find it rewarding to pay a little extra money at a privately owned restraunt instead of eating at Ruby Tuesdays or Outback.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: Heinrich

"Taking the moral high ground" describes a hypocritical situation such as a Christan promoting going to war regardless of the loss of innocent lives and clarity of purpose. Or a politician talking about promoting family values when he himself has been divorced a few times. That's "taking the moral high ground."

I am not "taking the moral high ground". I am describing a process of 'voting with my money' in a more complex way than caring about MYSELF and ME. Try it sometime. I find it rewarding to pay a little extra money at a privately owned restraunt instead of eating at Ruby Tuesdays or Outback.

You got something against franchises? Most are privately owned and run by regular people.

OK, so your way to care about yourself is to spend more money than necessary to assuage the guilt caused by living in a consumer society. No thanks, I spent most of my life living in other crappier countries and I like the American way.