Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[mikk]

Here's a video of igpu performance of a ryzen 7 6800U. Not much in details, though he does say that he'll review the laptop (which he doesn't say which in the description) in 8 days [Thumbnail looks like an ASUS laptop though].
TDP is 15-28W, though this particular testing was done on 28W.

The iGPU can be powerful, however it isn't for free, it needs quite a lot of power to unlock the potential. This device running at 30W is enough for only ~1400 Mhz iGPU clock speed which is a massive reduction from the Rembrandt-H powered models we have seen. In this test we can see the result:

ADL-P Xe LP at 23W is only 25% behind 6800U 680M at 25W in PUBG.

 

[Markfw]

Just watched a review of Asus Zenbook S 13 OLED, featuring the ryzen 7 6800U. Do you want me to post the video, or just the screenshots of graphs which show any improvement from the previous gen? (The video goes on for 16 minutes and is more oriented towards the laptop than just the processor)

I would like screenshots, not video.

 

[ryanjagtap]

I would like screenshots, not video.

Here you go. There is some improvement in multicore performance in cinebench R20 and Adobe Premiere. igpu performance is ok, but is constrained by the TDP.

 

[izaic3]

Pc mag's review.

Seems pretty decent.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hardware Canucks has a much better review. There are timestamps so the viewer can skip to what they want to know.

Very impressive for anything graphics related.

 

[ryanjagtap]

Hardware Canucks has a much better review. There are timestamps so the viewer can skip to what they want to know.

Very impressive for anything graphics related.

We got 3 posts with the same content. @mikk posted the video and 1 slide while I just posted the screenshots for all the slides (some preferred it over video link). It's impressive nonetheless.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

We got 3 posts with the same content. @mikk posted the video and 1 slide while I just posted the screenshots for all the slides (some preferred it over video link). It's impressive nonetheless.

Teach me to link stuff without reading the new posts first.

 

[ahimsa42]

nice to see the gen 4.0 ssd too. hopefully they will become standard for 6800U laptops, along with USB 4.0.

 

[Abwx]

The iGPU can be powerful, however it isn't for free, it needs quite a lot of power to unlock the potential. This device running at 30W is enough for only ~1400 Mhz iGPU clock speed which is a massive reduction from the Rembrandt-H powered models we have seen. In this test we can see the result:

ADL-P Xe LP at 23W is only 25% behind 6800U 680M at 25W in PUBG.

Seems that there s 45W APUs laptops with only an iGPUt, there should be way enough power budget to extract most of the APU GFX perfs.

Xiaomi RedmiBook Pro 14 2022 Ryzen Edition arrives with AMD Ryzen 5 6600H and Ryzen 7 6800H APU options

Xiaomi has released the RedmiBook Pro 14 2022 Ryzen Edition, which it powers with AMD Ryzen 6000H-series APUs. Only available with integrated graphics, the 14-inch laptop also has a 120 Hz display, PCIe 4.0 storage and LPDDR5 RAM, among other features. The RedmiBook Pro 14 2022 Ryzen Edition...

www.notebookcheck.net

 

[izaic3]

AMD Ryzen 7 6800U Efficiency Review - Zen3+ beats Intel Alder Lake

We had to wait quite a while but we finally got our hands on AMD’s latest mobile processors from the Ryzen 6000U generation. We compare the Zen3+ cores of the new Ryzen 7 6800U with Intel’s current Alder Lake-P platform as well as Apple’s M1 Pro SoCs. Who builds the best chip for compact laptops?

www.notebookcheck.net

This talks about the efficiency of the 6800u.

"The efficiency advantage of the new Ryzen 7 6800U over the current Alder Lake models is much bigger in multi-core tests and contrary to the single-core tests, there is no real performance advantage anymore, either. Even the Core i7-1260P with a much higher power consumption is just slightly ahead in the benchmarks and our results once again show how inefficient Alder Lake is at higher consumption values. The Core i5-1240P in the Yoga Slim 7 Pro consumes much more power than the Core i7-1260P in the Yoga 9i 14, but this is hardly noticeable in the performance.

It is also interesting to see how Alder Lake-P chips perform at lower power levels when the cooling performance is limited. This is the case for the Samsung Galaxy Book 2 Pro 13, where the CPU is quickly limited to just 20W. The efficiency increase is very small compared to the gains we saw for the Ryzen 7 6800U at 12W, which means Intel’s hybrid architecture with the 10 nm cores is not really suited for very compact systems. These are not good news for the upcoming Alder Lake-U CPUs, which are positioned in the 15W class. However, Intel still lists a maximum consumption of 55W, even though these chips are only equipped with 2 P-cores. Based on our results so far, we do not believe the Alder Lake-U systems will be very competitive, neither in terms of performance, nor efficiency.

The new AMD Ryzen 7 6800U leaves a very good impression so far. The single-core performance is not as good as on the new Alder Lake chips, but the multi-core performance is comparable and the new Ryzen CPU is way more efficient. AMD also managed to improve the integrated GPU, but we will take a closer look at the new RDNA2 GPU in a separate article.

We expect more laptops with Ryzen 6000U CPUs in the next couple of weeks and the real rivals for the 6000U models, the Alder Lake-U chips like the Core i7-1265U, should be available in a few weeks as well. They use a similar hybrid architecture as other Alder Lake chips, but with fewer P-cores. Intel still lists a maximum consumption of 55W, which worries us a bit. The high consumption values do not only result in shorter battery runtimes (even with simple workloads), but we also observed more frequent fan activity in our reviews so far.

Based on our results so far, the AMD Ryzen 6000U chips are the best mobile processors for Windows laptops right now. The big question is if manufacturers will use the AMD chips for their premium laptops and if they will be available in larger quantities, where Intel has an advantage right now."

 

[mikk]

Ultrabookreview tested the 6800U from the Zenbook, a much better test imho. Much more detailed. In CPU workloads it can hold 25W mostly. Combined CPU+GPU workload is a struggle if it's a longer workload, performance goes down over time.

Asus ZenBook S 13 OLED review (UM5302TA model- AMD Ryzen 7 6800U, OLED)

That wraps up this review of the ASUS ZenBook S 13 OLED UM5302TA. Let me know what you think about it in the comments section below.

www.ultrabookreview.com

 

[moinmoin]

Ultrabookreview tested the 6800U from the Zenbook, a much better test imho. Much more detailed. In CPU workloads it can hold 25W mostly. Combined CPU+GPU workload is a struggle if it's a longer workload, performance goes down over time.

Asus ZenBook S 13 OLED review (UM5302TA model- AMD Ryzen 7 6800U, OLED)

That wraps up this review of the ASUS ZenBook S 13 OLED UM5302TA. Let me know what you think about it in the comments section below.

www.ultrabookreview.com

Hm, that review is much more specific to the Zenbook and the cTDP limits it applies. I honestly prefer Notebookcheck efficiency review of 6800U since it does just that, focus on the efficiency of 6800U independent from Zenbook housing it.

That being said I'm honestly surprised about this part of the Ultrabookreview:

Here’s what we got in our battery life tests, with the screen’s brightness set at around 120 nits (~60 brightness).

• 7 W (~9-10 h of use) – text editing in Google Drive, Balanced Mode, screen at 60%, Wi-Fi ON;
• 5.5 W (12+ h of use) – 1080p fullscreen video on Youtube in Edge, Whisper Mode, screen at 60%, Wi-Fi ON;
• 4.8 W (12+ h of use) – Netflix fullscreen in Edge, Whisper Mode, screen at 60%, Wi-Fi ON;
• 10 W (~6-7 h of use) – browsing in Edge, Balanced Mode, screen at 60%, Wi-Fi ON;
• 26 W (~2.5 h of use) – Gaming – Witcher 3, Performance Mode, screen at 60%, Wi-Fi ON.

Are those numbers true? And an improvement over previous Zenbooks? Aside for videos they all seem quite high to me.

I'm irritated since my 4500U (so two gens older) Acer Swift 3 running Linux is usually swinging between 2.7W to 3.9W on lighter use (browsing and text editing). I guess my system is well optimized (outside of video "acceleration", starts at above 6W under Linux) but I can't imagine the OLED screen alone being responsible for such a significant difference.

 

[Abwx]

Are those numbers true? And an improvement over previous Zenbooks? Aside for videos they all seem quite high to me.

Because that s measured at the main and you ll hardly find an AC adaptator whose idle power is 2W, most are a little higher.

 

[moinmoin]

Because that s measured at the main and you ll hardly find an AC adaptator whose idle power is 2W, most are a little higher.

Eww, why would they measure the power draw of a laptop at the main and not at the battery? Why wouldn't they read the battery discharge info instead (surely that's available under Windows)?

 

[Abwx]

Eww, why would they measure the power draw of a laptop at the main and not at the battery? Why wouldn't they read the battery discharge info instead (surely that's available under Windows)?

You should ask them, but anyway that s how they proceed...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/2022-Dell-XPS-15-9520-3-5K-OLED-laptop-review-Skip-or-buy.621506.0.html

 

[tamz_msc]

'm irritated since my 4500U (so two gens older) Acer Swift 3 running Linux is usually swinging between 2.7W to 3.9W on lighter use (browsing and text editing). I guess my system is well optimized (outside of video "acceleration", starts at above 6W under Linux) but I can't imagine the OLED screen alone being responsible for such a significant difference.

Your system also has the delayed boost behavior, which is why power consumption is on the lower side.

 

[Thibsie]

Anyone knows if HP will announce Envy/Spectre Laptops based on Rembrandt ?
Zen3 ones are getting discontinued.

 

[moinmoin]

Your system also has the delayed boost behavior, which is why power consumption is on the lower side.

True, and I like it that way. But good point, there is a tool allowing to switch that off (as well as tweak most cTDP settings, RyzenAdj) at least on my Renoir chip. I'll have to watch how big of an impact that has on power consumption.

 

[ahimsa42]

hopefully this news will translate to a significant price drop for the (many?) rumored upcoming 6800U laptops:

DDR5 Memory Prices Take A Rollercoaster Dive As AMD Ryzen 7000 & Intel Raptor Lake Launch Approaches But Still A Far Cry From DDR4 Prices

DDR5 prices drop dramatically as AMD is set to reveal the new Ryzen 7000 processors offering the Zen 4 architecture for next-gen systems.

wccftech.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Even if DDR5 gets cheaper, I do not like the current available speed bins. 4800, 5200, 5600??? Maximum is what? 6600?? And all those with crappy latencies. Latency needs to go below 30 and speed above 7000 MT/S before I would feel OK parting with my money for DDR5.

 

[tamz_msc]

Even if DDR5 gets cheaper, I do not like the current available speed bins. 4800, 5200, 5600??? Maximum is what? 6600?? And all those with crappy latencies. Latency needs to go below 30 and speed above 7000 MT/S before I would feel OK parting with my money for DDR5.

You won't get ultra low latency, high frequency DDR5 in laptops though, only JEDEC stuff.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You won't get ultra low latency, high frequency DDR5 in laptops though, only JEDEC stuff.

JEDEC Publishes LPDDR5X Standard at up to 8533 Mbps

www.anandtech.com

LPDDR5X-8533 would be very nice to have in a laptop.

 

[ahimsa42]

Even if DDR5 gets cheaper, I do not like the current available speed bins. 4800, 5200, 5600??? Maximum is what? 6600?? And all those with crappy latencies. Latency needs to go below 30 and speed above 7000 MT/S before I would feel OK parting with my money for DDR5.

to each their own-there are many who will though myself included. the 13" zen model includes LPDDR5 6400 which seems to work great with the 6800U.

 

[trivik12]

I wish I could buy a Ryzen 6600u laptop at reasonable price but I cannot find a single laptop at Costco(my preferred place due to warranty/return policy) or Best Buy. Meanwhile I can get 1240P with 16GB for 650 with 100% srgb screen. But my preference is Rembrandt for efficiency reasons. I wish AMD could get their act together on laptops :-(

 

[tamz_msc]

The lack of DDR4 support is hurting Rembrandt in the mainstream segment. I'm seeing many Alder Lake U and P models with LPDDR4x and DDR4 in my country, but nothing that has Rembrandt-U.