AMD Ryzen Gen 2 Set For Q2 2018

[formulav8]

Promotory 400 Chipset @ PCI-SIG. It was added the 19th

I think a big feature will be Thunderbolt.

 

[mattiasnyc]

hmmm.... I wonder if Thunderbolt on Ryzen/Threadripper then would be exclusive to that chipset series or if the Designare x399 would work without it...

 

[CatMerc]

AM4 Ryzen and TR share the microcode.
EPYC has it's own, due being "B2" stepping.

Well then, why are latency numbers consistently lower?

 

[The Stilt]

Well then, why are latency numbers consistently lower?

Without the ability to test myself, I'd say it is related either to platform config (e.g. CBS settings) or power management.

 

[Dayman1225]

HWInfo adds recognition support for Pinnacle Ridge, AMD 400 Series chipset support coming in the next update

 

[dooon]

"Raven Ridge" and "Pinnacle Ridge" will be released early March 2018.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I was hoping for February, but March is okay too. Looks like the rumours were true folks! Mostly.

 

[prtskg]

I am expecting desktop Raven to come earlier than Pinnacle.

 

[Topweasel]

I am expecting desktop Raven to come earlier than Pinnacle.

It is about stock and bins availability more than anything else. I would be a little worried considering it's only these 15w pieces.

Then again AMD just could be waiting for OEM offerings to be ready to ship for the higher wattage parts. Obviously the retail desktop sku's wouldn't need that.

 

[Dayman1225]

AMD Zen+ 12nm Ryzen and X470 motherboards to launch in April

Looks like Zen+ is launching in Q2'18, also interestingly a TR refresh in H2'18

 

[DrMrLordX]

Boo on April. So much for March folks. Blah.

 

[eek2121]

Boo on April. So much for March folks. Blah.

Probably similar timing to last year, and it makes sense given the lack of leaks of PR performance. My bet is you'll see the exact same thing happen this year as last: Ryzen 7 launches in April, followed by Ryzen 5/3 once they harvest enough dies, and finally Threadripper once they get enough 'cream of the crop' dies. I'm going to plunking down another grand on a CPU...

EDIT: I should add that AMD is going to be focusing a ton of marketing efforts on the new APUs. Part of me was beginning to wonder whether we'd see Pinnacle Ridge at all...

 

[StinkyPinky]

I like the look of the roadmap. AMD seems confident in their CPU architecture, really nice to see after a decade of struggles.Very interested to see what their 12nm ryzens can do. They're saying 10%+ extra performance per watt which sounds promising. And more threadrippers in 2H 2018. Will be interesting to see if they do a 20 core part or not (don't think their architecture supports 18 cores)

A pity their GPU division seems to be having issues. Looks like no next generation vega desktop until 2019. Guess we will see another "Delay" to the Nvidia lineup. Ugh.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Probably similar timing to last year, and it makes sense given the lack of leaks of PR performance.

Ryzen started shipping last year in February. It was the boards that didn't ship on time.

EDIT: I should add that AMD is going to be focusing a ton of marketing efforts on the new APUs. Part of me was beginning to wonder whether we'd see Pinnacle Ridge at all...

Huh? I'm not surprised at all.

Looks like no next generation vega desktop until 2019. .

Did I miss something? There's supposed to be a 12nm Vega refresh this year, followed by Navi by . . . December or so. Used to be August but I'm not holding them to that.

edit: okay, so they punted on Navi, and are instead porting Vega to 7nm. That slots 7nm Vega into Navi's launch window. Predictably, they're prioritizing their highest profit opportunity, which is AI/deep learning. Might explain why we're seeing so few Vegas hit the market.

Interesting. Not sure what to make of all that. Might be best to take that line of conversation to the GPU forums.

 

[Topweasel]

They didn't punt Navi, there was always Vega 20. I am just hoping there isn't a Navi 20. After Navi is their next gen arch. GCN needs to be retired and I don't want to wait another 3+ years for that.

 

[beginner99]

They're saying 10%+ extra performance per watt which sounds promising.

For me this sounds scary as it could mean we get like 5% more performance from something as small as a 200mhz clock pump + 5% lower power. It can't use more power because then it would not fit into 300-series boards. So by that we already know that max performance increase is 10% which isn't all that game-changing. As said before I excpet an even split and something like a 200mhz speed boost.

 

[coercitiv]

For me this sounds scary as it could mean we get like 5% more performance from something as small as a 200mhz clock pump + 5% lower power.

Does this sound less scary to you?

Details of the chips are still too far off to reveal, but AMD officials said to expect them to offer far more than the usual 7- to 8-percent performance bumps we've seen with typical "industry" updates. That's AMD's shorthand way of throwing shade at Intel.

Spoiler: est perf increase

 

[bakyt115]

From slide above
Zen+ 12 dots
Zen 8 dots

50% perfomance uplift)))

 

[Abwx]

They're saying 10%+ extra performance per watt which sounds promising.

That s 10% higher perf at same power, this amount to 20%+ perf/watt at same frequency....

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-01/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2000/

From slide above
Zen+ 12 dots
Zen 8 dots

50% perfomance uplift)))

50% higher uplift than the current industry trend, wich mean 11-12% instead of 7-8%...

 

[eek2121]

I'm going to stick with my original estimate here. 10% IPC increase, combined with 5-10% higher clocks. 3.8-4.0 GHz base, 4.4 all core boost, 4.7 single core boost. Top Ryzen chips will EASILY reach 5 GHz. My assumptions are from:

a) I read an interview somewhere back just prior to Ryzen's launch where an AMD spokesperson said that Ryzen was a new architecture and there was 'plenty of low hanging fruit' when asked if the followup to Ryzen would be any faster. I am unable to find this article currently.
b) Cream of the crop Threadripper cores can be pushed to 4.4 GHz at 1.45V on 14LPP. A performance optimized node should allow for a significantly improved voltage curve, allowing for around a 10% improvement in clock speeds. AMD will be a bit conservative in this department, however, due to TDP constraints.
c) It is well known that AMD's new precision boost 2.0 is going to be part of Pinnacle Ridge. This will enable single core boost similar to Intel.

If AMD manages to exceed my expectations (which is a good possibility), I will be blown away completely and Intel is going to have a really bad year.

Edit: Removed poor edit.

 

[DrMrLordX]

They didn't punt Navi.

Sure they did, they punted Navi all the way to 2020. Between now and then it's nothing but Vega.

I am disappointed that the roadmap showed nothing about 12nm Vega refresh. All the OEMs/board manufacturers saying they expect no more Vegas in the channel anytime soon is really suspicious. That would make sense if there's a Vega refresh coming by April, but if there isn't, then what is AMD doing? Trying to lose the entire dGPU market?

As for Ryzen 2, I still think Fmax of 4.6 GHz is a reasonable estimate. If it goes higher then great! I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that though.

 

[Topweasel]

Sure they did, they punted Navi all the way to 2020. Between now and then it's nothing but Vega.

I am disappointed that the roadmap showed nothing about 12nm Vega refresh. All the OEMs/board manufacturers saying they expect no more Vegas in the channel anytime soon is really suspicious. That would make sense if there's a Vega refresh coming by April, but if there isn't, then what is AMD doing? Trying to lose the entire dGPU market?

As for Ryzen 2, I still think Fmax of 4.6 GHz is a reasonable estimate. If it goes higher then great! I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that though.

New roadmap has it in 2019. Old roadmap had it in 2019 (spacing was weird but still). We heard about Vega 20 very early last year. I don't know if we knew that Vega 20 was a 7nm chip. Be we knew it was there, they just didn't list it because they were listing archs and not refreshes. Vega 20 on 7nm does give a bit of a blueprint of the timeline and that does mean it's likely that Navi is a late 2019 chip. But remember Navi is still GCN so I wouldn't be getting too overworked about it's release. It's the 2020/2021 Nextgen chip that we are really going to be waiting for.

 

[LightningZ71]

With an existing reasonable peak frequency on very high binned cores being in the 4.2-4.3Ghz, I wouldn't expect the top binned PR cores to make it much past 4.7Ghz with a lot of voltage work. They might release a retail part that has a "base" clock of 4.0Ghz and a top end boost clock in the 4.4-4.5Ghz range if you're lucky. With other VERY minor tweaks, you could see benchmarks for the leading Ryzen parts rise another 5-10% for the ones that are heavily CPU limited, but I think that that may be optimistic. Remember, there are a lot of things that are limited by the IF latency and qualified memory speeds, and that doesn't appear to be going away from what information has been released.

 

[DrMrLordX]

New roadmap has it in 2019. Old roadmap had it in 2019 (spacing was weird but still). We heard about Vega 20 very early last year. I don't know if we knew that Vega 20 was a 7nm chip. Be we knew it was there, they just didn't list it because they were listing archs and not refreshes. Vega 20 on 7nm does give a bit of a blueprint of the timeline and that does mean it's likely that Navi is a late 2019 chip. But remember Navi is still GCN so I wouldn't be getting too overworked about it's release. It's the 2020/2021 Nextgen chip that we are really going to be waiting for.

Sorry got Navi mixed up with the "next gen" chip. But as recently as last October, Navi was supposed to show up in August 2018. Then by last month, it was Q4 2018, so Oct-Dec. Now it's 2019? Probably late 2019, since early 2019 is going to be 7nm Vega?

And even still, where did 12nm Vega go? It isn't on their roadmap at all.

7nm Vega for consumers is early 2019.

14nm Vega supplies are winding down already, no major shipments expected anytime soon.

What are they doing in 2018?

 

[Topweasel]

Sorry got Navi mixed up with the "next gen" chip. But as recently as last October, Navi was supposed to show up in August 2018. Then by last month, it was Q4 2018, so Oct-Dec. Now it's 2019? Probably late 2019, since early 2019 is going to be 7nm Vega?

And even still, where did 12nm Vega go? It isn't on their roadmap at all.

7nm Vega for consumers is early 2019.

14nm Vega supplies are winding down already, no major shipments expected anytime soon.

What are they doing in 2018?

These are good points. As of early last year Vega 20 was looking to be 14nm+, which we assumed would be ported over to 12nm. So the switch to 7nm is a little surprising.

It probably comes down to AMD figuring that Vega on 14nm+/12nm wasn't going to be a useful a bump (not enough to stay competitive) and they wanted to do the tried and true old arch on new process for 7nm. Which may mean we see Vega 20 before Zen 2 and possibly they might start production while 7nm is in risk. Maybe this doesn't impact Navi as much as Vega 20 seems to be a high performance only solution and Navi is supposed to be more of a multi tiered product line. So Vega 20 might be a fill in gap in high end till Navi is ready like Fury.