America in Afghanistan through 2024?

[Schadenfroh]

http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2011/08/22/america-in-afghanistan-until-2024/

The Daily Telegraph reports that the status of forces agreement that the United States and Afghanistan are negotiating may allow a U.S. military presence in the country until 2024 . That’s a full 10 years beyond the deadline for withdrawal of U.S. combat troops and handing over security responsibilities to Afghan forces.

My goodness, will this war ever end? We do not have the will to do what is necessary to "win," nor do we have the money to wage war any longer. Too many soldiers have died, Bin-Laden is dead (should have been the perfect time to leave and save face), we have to pump bribes into Pakistan to keep the roads open, no more...

 

[Engineer]

We'll be stuck in Afghanistan and Iraq from here on, just like we have bases and troops all over the damn world left over from previous wars. Obama and the Dems have been complete fail on getting out of these messes, IMO.

Wasted troop lives and money lost forever.....

 

[Nebor]

LTG Caldwell (Commander of NATO Training Mission Afghanistan) has already stated that we'll need until at least 2017 to have a shot at a lasting Afghan security force.

I don't think the political will exists to have substantial combat forces there until 2024 though. We'll shift to an advisory role like we have in Iraq, with SF & combat aviation on standby for when the Afghans need it.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe Nato can get the current Afghan authorities to sign off on a 2017-2024 time frame, but I doubt that will last. GWB&co tried to plan on being in Iraq forever, but Malike soon told the US to start slowly leaving starting Dec 31, 2008.

As it is, the USA is unwilling to commit the resources to win in Afghanistan, so staying in Afghanistan buys is more human misery for the Afghan people. As the USA and Nato think they are playing Wachamole with only the Taliban, when, in fact, that its the ordinary non-taliban majority population that is more inconvenienced and put in un-neccasary danger.

 

[Nebor]

GWB&co tried to plan on being in Iraq forever, but Malike soon told the US to start slowly leaving starting Dec 31, 2008.

Yup, they sure kicked us out. There aren't still 50,000 US troops there along with a separate state department army. And it's not like they agreed to permanent basing for the next 30 years....

 

[Lemon law]

Yup, they sure kicked us out. There aren't still 50,000 US troops there along with a separate state department army. And it's not like they agreed to permanent basing for the next 30 years....

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But US troops no longer control the Iraqi venu and can't act in combat roles. As the number of US troops get ever smaller. Not to mention the fact a future Iraqi government may force all US troops out and cancel all basing agreements.

The Nato future is far worse in Afghanistan, not only is it becoming more probable that Afghan leaders may say Nato go home, our Risk with Pakistan is far greater. Because they can just terminate our lease to a supply line and it costs far more for Pakistan to control the anarchy and chaos the Nato occupation of Afghanistan than Nato pays in aid. So once Pakistan gets a better leader than the Turkey they now have, its very likely coming. And if Pakistan terminates our supply line into Afghanistan, Uncle Sammy can go hat in hand to Iran or air lift in supplies at 4 X the cost.

I too roll my eyes at the delusions of Nebor.

 

[Nebor]

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But US troops no longer control the Iraqi venu and can't act in combat roles. As the number of US troops get ever smaller. Not to mention the fact a future Iraqi government may force all US troops out and cancel all basing agreements.

The Nato future is far worse in Afghanistan, not only is it becoming more probable that Afghan leaders may say Nato go home, our Risk with Pakistan is far greater. Because they can just terminate our lease to a supply line and it costs far more for Pakistan to control the anarchy and chaos the Nato occupation of Afghanistan than Nato pays in aid. So once Pakistan gets a better leader than the Turkey they now have, its very likely coming. And if Pakistan terminates our supply line into Afghanistan, Uncle Sammy can go hat in hand to Iran or air lift in supplies at 4 X the cost.

I too roll my eyes at the delusions of Nebor.

You've been predicting a palestinian state and a complete NATO failure in Afghanistan for years. Your predictions are worth what they cost me.

Countries can't just "cancel basing agreements." If they could we'd be kicked out of a lot of different countries for the few international incidents that our military personnel invariably stir up. The Iraqis may force all US troops out? Yeah, and the earth may split open and start shooting anime ponies 300m into the sky. We fixed their country, and we're continuing to provide advising troops for free. They have no reason to ask us to leave.

It's looking pretty likely that Pakistan will cut off our land routes of supplies. Oh well. So we shut down the Pizza Huts, Tim Horton's, Dairy Queens and Subways again. 4x the cost to ship in supplies is meaningless to us; we have unlimited funds. Lest you forget we have a larger defense budget than the rest of the world combined.

 

[Infohawk]

This is irrelevant without the details. I'm fine with a heavily defended drone base keeping the Taliban in the stone age (they don't need much help). Obviously we don't want a large troop presence. For Afghanistan, mission accomplished happened when OBL was killed.

 

[Nebor]

This is irrelevant without the details. I'm fine with a heavily defended drone base keeping the Taliban in the stone age (they don't need much help). Obviously we don't want a large troop presence. For Afghanistan, mission accomplished happened when OBL was killed.

The people that sold us COIN and nation building aren't giving up so easily. We'll maintain at least 50,000 troops there in advising\mentoring roles. And I seriously doubt that combat troops will be leaving in the next year. There is intense conflict in Eastern Afghanistan still.

 

[gevorg]

By 2024, kids born on 9/11/01 can grow up and be deployed in Afghanistan.

By 2024, the US/NATO can more than double the Soviet ~10 year legacy in Afghanistan.

 

[Infohawk]

The people that sold us COIN and nation building aren't giving up so easily. We'll maintain at least 50,000 troops there in advising\mentoring roles. And I seriously doubt that combat troops will be leaving in the next year. There is intense conflict in Eastern Afghanistan still.

I'll believe it when I see it. The public appetite for these interventions is gone, so are the neocons, and so are the money. The only real problem is that no president wants to be that guy that withdraws and lets it turn to hell (which it will).

 

[Nebor]

I'll believe it when I see it. The public appetite for these interventions is gone, so are the neocons, and so are the money. The only real problem is that no president wants to be that guy that withdraws and lets it turn to hell (which it will).

As long as no more choppers full of special operations troops crash, people can go back to forgetting that the war in Afghanistan is still going on.

And Iraq has essentially hit an "America, fuck yeah" moment, so we won't be pulling out of there anytime soon.

 

[Infohawk]

And Iraq has essentially hit an "America, fuck yeah" moment, so we won't be pulling out of there anytime soon.

It has? Are you posting from the year 2003?

 

[Nebor]

It has? Are you posting from the year 2003?

Iraq is a resounding success story. It got a little dicey in the middle now, but things are good now. Better than they were 10 years ago.

 

[Infohawk]

Iraq is a resounding success story. It got a little dicey in the middle now, but things are good now. Better than they were 10 years ago.

Nah.

 

[Nebor]

Nah.

It's better off than Somalia at least.

 

[MovingTarget]

In our bid to whip out our collective cocks and show the Soviets that "Anything they can do we can do better", we chose failure. They failed in Afghanistan, and we will show them how spectacular failure can be! Lol.

But seriously, 2024? Are you fucking kidding me? I supported the war in Afghanistan, but it has passed its expiration date. Time to GTFO and hope for the best (again).

 

[Nebor]

In our bid to whip out our collective cocks and show the Soviets that "Anything they can do we can do better", we chose failure. They failed in Afghanistan, and we will show them how spectacular failure can be! Lol.

But seriously, 2024? Are you fucking kidding me? I supported the war in Afghanistan, but it has passed its expiration date. Time to GTFO and hope for the best (again).

On the one hand, actually being in Afghanistan is pretty awesome. It's so austere and wild, it's like an untamed frontier. On the other hand, 19 year old American kids dying every day to a faceless enemy is a tough pill to swallow.

It's surprisingly tough to wrangle a deployment for Afghanistan in the Army these days, it looks like my next go round probably won't be until the fall of 2012.

 

[MovingTarget]

On the one hand, actually being in Afghanistan is pretty awesome. It's so austere and wild, it's like an untamed frontier. On the other hand, 19 year old American kids dying every day to a faceless enemy is a tough pill to swallow.

It's surprisingly tough to wrangle a deployment for Afghanistan in the Army these days, it looks like my next go round probably won't be until the fall of 2012.

Afghanistan is a fascinating place, no doubt. I've always marveled at the pictures I've seen and the history I've read. Please don't interpret my post to mean that I don't support giving it a helping hand. 2024 is highly excessive in terms of our involvement though. One question though, are you looking to be redeployed there or hoping to not be deployed. Your post can be interpreted either way.

 

[Lemon law]

Nebor, you made your predictions and I have made mine, we can't start winning in Afghanistan until we radically change our strategy and tactics.

Now its a simply test of time, which of us will prove right in the end?

I am not trying to win any popularity contests on this forum, but long odds I will be the one proved right in the end. That is what I care about. You may be in denial now, but the USA and Nato will pull out much sooner than later, and then Nebor, you will have your final answer.

 

[Arkaign]

Afghanistan is gonna be the same 3rd century BC fuckhole it's always been, and always will be. The question has always been how many lives and how much money to throw away there. Of course certain entities and a select group of people and companies benefit massively from continued presence, and so long as their influence is stronger than the will to leave, it will remain so.

 

[Ackmed]

Nebor, you made your predictions and I have made mine, we can't start winning in Afghanistan until we radically change our strategy and tactics.

We've already "started winning" in Afghan. Saying otherwise is simply ignorant, and wrong.

 

[Engineer]

We need to get out of both of them (Iraq and Afghanistan)....we simply cannot afford to stay in these conflicts anymore and nobody is willing to raise taxes enough to pay for them so sorry, time to go. If they are willing to pay us 100% the cost of being there, fine, but otherwise, time to scale back and finally pull out.

 

[Lemon law]

We've already "started winning" in Afghan. Saying otherwise is simply ignorant, and wrong.

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You no doubt are referring to the new kill all the top Al-Quida leader strategy which has had some success. But as we motivate more new terrorists with every such drone strike, and also risk Pakistan giving the ole heave ho.

After all, we have been killing two three Al-Quida #2 and #3 leaders each and every year of the war and they get replaced swiftly and efficiently. And in March /2011 when we finally got OBL, everyone in the US noted, while many people in Pakistan asked Ossama Who.

But for what its worth, the 2011 Afghan season will soon be over and replaced by a winter lull. Leaving Leon Pinhead to probably declare victory just like Robert McNamera did in Vietnam.

By spring 2012, I predict the Taliban, which is rapidly becoming the old mujaheddin will be back, as strong as ever, trying to toss the foreign invader out. Over the years, Afghanistan has compiled quite a record, as they tossed out Alexander the great, the English, the Russians, and now they are working on Nato and the USA. Nor can the ultra corrupt Karzai government stand. Until those self defeating structural problems are changed, the US and Nato can't win in a million years.

 

[sandmanwake]

Not enough jobs in the US if those soldiers come home. Unemployment rate would be even higher and that would make politicians look bad.