Amnesty bill given new life.

[imported_Shivetya]

Under the tentative plan, Reid as early as Friday would launch his target - an amendment encompassing all 22 proposals - and shoot it into its component pieces. The Senate would then vote on ending debate on the immigration measure, which would take 60 votes and limit discussion of the bill to 30 more hours. After that interval, all 22 amendments would have to be voted on, with little opportunity for foes to interfere.


So basically they are going to force a vote on it by combining all 22 amendments into one, giving only 30 hours to debate, meaning a little over an hour on each component, and slaw it down our throats.


Police agencies in Colorado turned over the names of at least 15,000 suspected illegal immigrants to federal authorities during the second half of last year.

Like we really want these people in our country to begin with? This is 15 THOUSAND illegals arrested in ONE state in SIX months. This does not include those given traffic tickets or involved in domestic disputes.



So Congress is going to sell us out because they are in lockstep with a President intent on this being his legacy (as if this can cover for Iraq). Lovely.

 

[techs]

Yes, Bush is pushing very, very hard for this bill.

 

[laFiera]

They keep saying that the american people want something to be done, but I don't know of anybody at work that is dying to get this passed. The only one person that was for the bill, was one lady whose husband is an illegal! hehehe

But again only goes to show that the govt doesn't care what the people think, just ignore them and pass what's best for them or the corporations. And they call it a republic...

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Under the tentative plan, Reid as early as Friday would launch his target - an amendment encompassing all 22 proposals - and shoot it into its component pieces. The Senate would then vote on ending debate on the immigration measure, which would take 60 votes and limit discussion of the bill to 30 more hours. After that interval, all 22 amendments would have to be voted on, with little opportunity for foes to interfere.


So basically they are going to force a vote on it by combining all 22 amendments into one, giving only 30 hours to debate, meaning a little over an hour on each component, and slaw it down our throats.


Police agencies in Colorado turned over the names of at least 15,000 suspected illegal immigrants to federal authorities during the second half of last year.

Like we really want these people in our country to begin with? This is 15 THOUSAND illegals arrested in ONE state in SIX months. This does not include those given traffic tickets or involved in domestic disputes.



So Congress is going to sell us out because they are in lockstep with a President intent on this being his legacy (as if this can cover for Iraq). Lovely.

I don't know how your reading this. They way I'm reading this is that they are going to split the bill into smaller portions and vote on each one. They were making an anaology to a clay pigeon. When you shoot a clay pigeon it breaks into pieces??? Am I wrong. Please correct me if so??

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax.

I don't know how your reading this. They way I'm reading this is that they are going to split the bill into smaller portions and vote on each one. They were making an anaology to a clay pigeon. When you shoot a clay pigeon it breaks into pieces??? Am I wrong. Please correct me if so??
[/quote]


to quote another source....

Under the procedure, Reid would introduce a single, 22-part amendment, divisible into component parts for debate. Known as a "clay pigeon," it would offer the bill's supporters a means of staging the debate more or less free from interference, with the objective of keeping enough senators together to maintain the 60 votes needed to thwart a filibuster.

so they are attempting to push it through by making meaningful debate nearly impossible

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Under the tentative plan, Reid as early as Friday would launch his target - an amendment encompassing all 22 proposals - and shoot it into its component pieces. The Senate would then vote on ending debate on the immigration measure, which would take 60 votes and limit discussion of the bill to 30 more hours. After that interval, all 22 amendments would have to be voted on, with little opportunity for foes to interfere.


So basically they are going to force a vote on it by combining all 22 amendments into one, giving only 30 hours to debate, meaning a little over an hour on each component, and slaw it down our throats.

Rushing this more importantly it gives the public virtually no time whatsoever to react to any of it taking us right out of the loop.

Personally I think Reid should be tried for treason and when found guilty either executed or exiled from this country.

 

[Moonbeam]

All the debate on what could possibly be pushed through has already been debated. This is the bill debate has decided has the best chance of being pushed through.

If the Senate were allowed to craft a bill from scratch one would never come to a vote.

What the public wants and what corporations and the two parties want are two different things. The public be damned. The Republican party is doomed without the Latino vote. The Deomcratic party is not going to hand it to them, and corporations aren't going to pay a living wage. It is absolutely vital for everybody of importance that this bill pass.

 

[OutHouse]

date rape pure and simple.

the american people said NO Mr. President. No means no!

 

[Fern]

This annoys me:

We are not attempting to determine people's immigration status," Pelle said.

"Nobody has the time or training to try and sort it out."

First our government can't do a basic function like controlling it's border, now we see they can't even figure out who's legal and who's not. It also raises the question of whether they (law enforcement) even have the ability to accurately identify the person in custody. Our government is FUBAR'd on too many fundamental levels. :|

Our entire Senate is pathetic and Reid is therefor an apt figurehead of it. I hope this bill dies. If it passes in the Senate I hope it fails in the House.

I'm not sure what BS Reid thinks he's pulling, other than some attempt to "save time"? If, and I can't confirm this by reading the article, this manoever prevents any other amendments from being proposed he may be attempting to avoid any "poison pills" amendments from passing.

If it does pass the Senate & House, I suspect the Joint Conference Committee to work out any differences will be a b!tch.

Fern

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

Leaving is your suggestion, feel free to indulge.

This bill is a perfect example of why a revolution is coming. The political process has broken down, it is of no further use.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

Well, it certainly isnt a bill that resembles their lies oops promises they made when they were soliciting votes...I wonder when the bill to get tough with illegal entry into our country will hit the floor? Seems we're going backwards here. It makes the NOTHING GWB has done about the problem look like a good strategy.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

The Dems coulid not do it the normal way. The indivigual items were too flawed to stand on their own. Similar to having to vote on every earmark on their own merits.

By lumping everything together, Reid is attempting to create a mulligan stew

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

Leaving is your suggestion, feel free to indulge.

This bill is a perfect example of why a revolution is coming. The political process has broken down, it is of no further use.

You just woke up to what has always been. There will be no revolution.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

The Dems coulid not do it the normal way. The indivigual items were too flawed to stand on their own. Similar to having to vote on every earmark on their own merits.

By lumping everything together, Reid is attempting to create a mulligan stew

He is also siding with the big multinational corporations over clearly what the majoity American citizens want by doing so and that miserable piece of filth sellout should pay a high price for that.

 

[laFiera]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

Leaving is your suggestion, feel free to indulge.

This bill is a perfect example of why a revolution is coming. The political process has broken down, it is of no further use.

americans are too busy watching paris hilton and way too sedated with all their psychotropical drugs to even think about revolting.....

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

Leaving is your suggestion, feel free to indulge.

This bill is a perfect example of why a revolution is coming.

The political process has broken down, it is of no further use.

While we agree the political process is broken as well as a revolution is coming and we both may in fact see in our lifetime I disagree with your assumption that it would be because of the Democrats.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Topic Summary: Harry Reid pulling political stunt to get it through.

Good, you America hating hypocrits keep whining how the Dems aren't getting anything through so quit whining when they do.

You can't have it both ways.

Swallow your pill or leave the country.

The Dems coulid not do it the normal way. The indivigual items were too flawed to stand on their own. Similar to having to vote on every earmark on their own merits.

By lumping everything together, Reid is attempting to create a mulligan stew

Well, we apparently have a different understanding of this porcedure (as have others above).

What I understand is going to happen is that Reid introduces the amendment with everything lumped together ( i.e., one mega amendment), then at the request of a single Senator they will be seperated into their 22 individual parts.

The 22 seperate amendments will then be voted up or down individually.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
All the debate on what could possibly be pushed through has already been debated.......

I don't know if that's an accurate statement. IIRC, this bill from the outset bypassed all normal committees and procedures on the fasttrack.

I don't see how this bill has had the opportunity of other bills to be adequately debated. Looks more to me like Reid (and McCain & Kennedy) don't really want it debated.

30 hrs for 50 "windbag" Senators to cover a bill and 22 amendments? That parses out to damn little time. Looks like an attempt to stifle or shut-up the opposition.

Fern

 

[EagleKeeper]

One mega amendment apparently is to get get the ball rolling.

Discussion for 15-20 minutes on all the sub pieces and then a final vote.

The article is vague if each amendment gets a up/down or there is a one up/down for the combination.

It may be that if each amendment is handled separately; then some will get through - the question becomes will those that get through create a bigger hole because the paving truck was stopped at the gate?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
All the debate on what could possibly be pushed through has already been debated.......

I don't know if that's an accurate statement. IIRC, this bill from the outset bypassed all normal committees and procedures on the fasttrack.

I don't see how this bill has had the opportunity of other bills to be adequately debated. Looks more to me like Reid (and McCain & Kennedy) don't really want it debated.

30 hrs for 50 "windbag" Senators to cover a bill and 22 amendments? That parses out to damn little time. Looks like an attempt to stifle or shut-up the opposition.

Fern

I didn't mean it was debated by the Senate but rather those who will see the bill through. Debate in the Senate would kill it. Who knows, even the powers that be may not get it passed. We will see.

 

[1EZduzit]

Well, Let's make the illegals legal AND keep the border wide open all at the same time. Hell, we will soon have illegals employing illegals...... legally.

I for one am calling my congress people and telling them to shoot it down.... for all the good it will do. At least I can say I tired to stop the insanity.

 

[sumguy1]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Under the tentative plan, Reid as early as Friday would launch his target - an amendment encompassing all 22 proposals - and shoot it into its component pieces. The Senate would then vote on ending debate on the immigration measure, which would take 60 votes and limit discussion of the bill to 30 more hours. After that interval, all 22 amendments would have to be voted on, with little opportunity for foes to interfere.


So basically they are going to force a vote on it by combining all 22 amendments into one, giving only 30 hours to debate, meaning a little over an hour on each component, and slaw it down our throats.

Rushing this more importantly it gives the public virtually no time whatsoever to react to any of it taking us right out of the loop.

Personally I think Reid should be tried for treason and when found guilty either executed or exiled from this country.

Executed??!! Come on now. . .don't you think that's a bit extreme? I think you should change your name to Sociopath.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Well, Let's make the illegals legal AND keep the border wide open all at the same time. Hell, we will soon have illegals employing illegals...... legally.

I for one am calling my congress people and telling them to shoot it down.... for all the good it will do. At least I can say I tired to stop the insanity.

We already do at least down here on the border where I live, we have various small illegal immigrant/ day worker owned business in my town, mostly plumbing, general contractor/house repair, landscape/yard maintenance, swimming pool cleaners, maid services etc.

Some drive over for the day and do there thing and some reside here. If the screw up something or get caught during a rare enforcement check they just change the name of the businesses and keep going. They are pretty smart about it; their business vehicles are almost always unmarked they just use business cards with a telephone number which are easily changed when needed. They only accept cash for transactions; give no receipts so no paper trail. They are use at your own risk but very cheap so many do use them.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Well, Let's make the illegals legal AND keep the border wide open all at the same time. Hell, we will soon have illegals employing illegals...... legally.

I for one am calling my congress people and telling them to shoot it down.... for all the good it will do. At least I can say I tired to stop the insanity.

Thanks, good job :beer:

Me too. I went over to the Senator's office in person to b!tch about it. She (E. Dole) wasn't in so I spoke to her aide.

If it passes the Senate, I'll move on to my Rep (H. Shuler).

Fern