Anand R420 review analysis

[Edge3D]

I have gone through the review benchmarks on Anands review. Because they are the most reliable and trusted site to take information from. If you dont agree, well you shouldnt be here!

Anyway I'll go thru the benchmarks of actual games, not synthetic.


Farcry
800XT runs away with no AA/AF. All other NV/ATI cards close.
In AA/AF
All cards close. Notable that the 6800GT beats the 800Pro!

Halo
800XT is the only card with any lead over the NV cards. All others close.

Homeworld
800XT is the only card with any lead over the NV cards. All others close.

Final Fantasy
Who cares? All very close though.

F1 Challenge
All too close. Even the XT. Notable that the 6800GT beats the 800XT at 1600x1200.

Eve
All close

Unreal Tournament 2004
All close

X2
All close

Jedi Knight
All NVs win by quite a large margin across the board. Notable that the 6800GT beats the 800XT.

Wolfenstein 3D
All NVs win by quite a large margin across the board. 800XT able to keep up with the NV cards. Notable the 6800GT beats the 800XT.

Neverwinter Nights
All close


If you go through and double check my conclusions you will notice that when I said "all close", that sometimes NV won the benchmark or ATI won the benchmark. I did not discriminate when results are in the 1-10fps range.. calling out a winner (be it NV or ATI) doesnt do much justice.
I was looking for "runaway" differences.. something like 15+ FPS. Of course, my own discretion was used in evaluation so you may not agree but I think that the majority will.


Conclusion
All cards besides the 800XT are pretty close. It depends on if you have brand loyalty, or if one brand or the other has been better for you. Shader model 3.0 might be a feature you want if you are going to get a new card. Maybe the media capabilitys of the NV cards. Either way, its close enough that forums could argue and moan for the next two years over which one "won".
I would give ATI the performance crown with the 800XT, but when the "lowly" 6800GT beats that uber card in ANY benchmarks I cant do that.

Personal conclusion and the card I'm buying for myself this summer
The $400 6800GT. Single slot, one molex, 300watt PSU recommendation, 16 pipes, VS/PS3.0.
I would personally think that in any nonbiased persons POV that this would be the card to clearly get. But of course, usually people amaze me. NV traditionally has better drivers, and also they have MUCH better legacy support for when these cards get old, they also have vastly superior multimonitor support. All which are very important to me. The most important game for me, other than the Doom 3 engine is the Unreal Engines. U2K4 seems best suited for the NV cards and that also means the GT is for me. With Epic being a partner with NV I would suspect the GT will be a great choice for UnrealEngine 3.0 performance. PS/VS3.0 I suspect will play a large part in the next Unreal engine.

I think this will become a war of price and driver support. Some reviews have said that NV has the better image quality. It will be interesting if suddenly ATI fanboys start to say IQ doesnt matter

Should make this note- The 6800 Ultra Extreme/6850 is not included yet in Anands article, so it could be possible that it will give NV the crown. Right now, the crown is too close to call.. as of now the Performance Crown will be a matter of future driver support. IQ and price of course being seperate issues.

Bottom line? The X800XT main advantage, speed, doesnt really allow any resolution that the competing Nvidia cards cannot.
Considering this fact, the inherant advantages of PS/VS3.0, with NV taking the IQ crown, as well as the new media chip all become ever more relevant. They have truley brought NV out above the competition.

 

[JBT]

I'll be going for the GT in late summer.

 

[Robor]

Playing the wait and see here. Need more info on overclockability and a look a the next drivers for each side before making a decision. Either way, not paying over $300 no matter what the speed. That's my line in the sand for a video card.

 

[Marsumane]

Originally posted by: Edge3D
I have gone through the review benchmarks on Anands review. Because they are the most reliable and trusted site to take information from. If you dont agree, well you shouldnt be here!

Anyway I'll go thru the benchmarks of actual games, not synthetic.


Farcry
800XT runs away with no AA/AF. All other NV/ATI cards close.
In AA/AF
All cards close. Notable that the 6800GT beats the 800XT!

Halo
800XT is the only card with any lead over the NV cards. All others close.

Homeworld
800XT is the only card with any lead over the NV cards. All others close.

Final Fantasy
Who cares? All very close though.

F1 Challenge
All too close. Even the XT. Notable that the 6800XT beats the 800XT at 1600x1200.

Eve
All close

Unreal Tournament 2004
All close

X2
All close

Jedi Knight
Runaway NV win across the board. Notable that the 6800GT beats the 800XT.

Wolfenstein 3D
Runaway NV win. 800XT able to keep up with the NV cards. Notable the 6800GT beats the 800XT.

Neverwinter Nights
All close


If you go through and double check my conclusions you will notice that when I said "all close", that sometimes NV won the benchmark or ATI won the benchmark. I did not discriminate when results are in the 1-10fps range.. calling out a winner (be it NV or ATI) doesnt do much justice.
I was looking for "runaway" differences.. something like 15+ FPS. Of course, my own discretion was used in evaluation so you may not agree but I think that the majority will.


Conclusion
All cards besides the 800XT are pretty close. It depends on if you have brand loyalty, or if one brand or the other has been better for you. Shader model 3.0 might be a feature you want if you are going to get a new card. Maybe the media capabilitys of the NV cards. Either way, its close enough that forums could argue and moan for the next two years over which one "won".
I would give ATI the performance crown with the 800XT, but when the "lowly" 6800GT beats that uber card in ANY benchmarks I cant do that.

Personal conclusion and the card I'm buying for myself this summer
The $400 6800GT. Single slot, one molex, 300watt PSU recommendation, 16 pipes, VS/PS3.0.
I would personally think that in any nonbiased persons POV that this would be the card to clearly get. But of course, usually people amaze me. NV traditionally has better drivers, and also they have MUCH better legacy support for when these cards get old, they also have vastly superior multimonitor support. All which are very important to me.


I think this will become a war of price and driver support. Some reviews have said that NV has the better image quality. It will be interesting if suddenly ATI fanboys start to say IQ doesnt matter

Should make this note- The 6800 Ultra Extreme/6850 is not included yet in Anands article, so it could be possible that it will give NV the crown. Right now, the crown is too close to call.. as of now the Performance Crown will be a matter of future driver support. IQ and price of course being seperate issues.

I agree almost entirely except when u said above "runaway nv win". in those cases, id think that the top nv card would be the same as when the top ati card won. (just from examining ur post that is) also, all the cards arent pretty close, just the card that is up against a comparable card is close to its comparable card. maybe thats what u meant more or less. Overall: unbiased, gj

Also, I think people that are unbiased dont vote on these poles as much. I mean in here there are 2 posts above mine that want the nvgt and only 1 vote for it. personally i think that is the best card of the roundup for price/performance roundup also. oc that baby and uve got within 10% of any of the top card in any benchmark. cant wait for them to iron out their obviously buggy drivers (ex farcry)

 

[SickBeast]

Edge3D - you said that the 6800GT beats the X800XT in Far Cry with AA/AF enabled which simply isn't true. What gave you that idea? Sounds like one of those monkey prophesies...

Why are you even posting this thread? Did you not read Anand's conclusion? He said "With ATI's performance on par in older games and slightly ahead in newer games, the beefy power supply requirement, two slot solution, and sheer heat generated by NV40 may be too much for most people to take the NVIDIA plunge."

I said before any reviews were posted that Far Cry was the definitive benchmark at this time. All other games run beautifully on current hardware such as a 9800pro. To say that the 6800U is faster in Call Of Duty is irrelvant to me since I use vsync and anything higher than 60FPS with 6XAA/16XAF is completely useless to me and anyone else who runs a similar setup to me. Again, the 6800U wins in UT2004, but it's not a big deal as all of the cards completely manhandle that game.

Then there are those who like to argue that PS3.0 is a "killer feature" of the NV40. It's true that it's a bonus, but then you come to the fact that ATi has their new "fragment AA". This is a feature that can be used with virtually all of today's games and will make a very serious impact. I can't wait to try it on games like Far Cry on my 9700pro where I was unable to run with any sort of AA before and now I'll be able to have 4XAA at a very minimal performance hit.

IMO things are very close between the two cards, but ATi has a serious edge at the moment due to what I posted above and what Anand alluded to in his conclusion. Personally it's going to come down to AutoCAD/3D Max performance for me as I'm a CAD professional who likes to game, and the gaming benchmarks are all relatively close at this point. I just wish I could find a review of the X800's CAD performance at this point. I found out that the 6800U has terrible CAD performance which surprised me greatly, so I'm hoping that the X800 will have amazing performance so I don't have to wait any longer.

 

[Keysplayr]

No matter what someone posts, theres always someone to disagree. I learned a lot from you folks here in the forums and it has nothing to do with computers.

 

[SickBeast]

Hahaha that's too bad keys...you're getting too caught up in the drama then. It's ok, I'm guilty of the same thing. You need to sift through the messages to find the informative ones. I just find it irritating when someone lets their personal bias influence them to the point that they want to tell the whole world how much better something is just because they 'think' it's superior because they 'like' that brand better. I suppose I should just ignore it and let someone else mash the fanboys to the ground.

 

[Edge3D]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Edge3D - you said that the 6800GT beats the X800XT in Far Cry with AA/AF enabled which simply isn't true. What gave you that idea? Sounds like one of those monkey prophesies...

That was a typo on my part, I meant 800Pro. Its been fixed.

 

[SickBeast]

I knew there was something fishy. Thanks.

 

[Edge3D]

Also, I posted this because I wanted to put things in perspective for everyone. Its clear to me that the cards are near equal, besides the X800XT and in Wolfenstein, Jedi Knight and F1 that card gets beat by a 6800 GT. Its clear ATI's hands down, "uberness" is not there. While most are assuming it is at a glance.

It would be different and get the crown if it was something like the 6800 Ultra Extreme, or the 6800 Ultra was the one to beat it (by any margin small or large). But beat by the GT as well? Not worthy of the crown yet.

Point being, dont always rely on someone elses opinion. Think for yourselves. This is just my thoughts on the core real world gaming results.

 

[Edge3D]

I am curious about all the votes for the 800XT... with no one backing up with a post with a reason WHY they are going that way.

Also, anyone who buys the 6800 Ultra Extreme OR the 800XT would typically have owned the 9800XT or 5950 Ultra.. if they didnt, I honestly doubt their sincerity because those cards (XT and NVs extremely uber cards) are for those with money, that are willing to shell out the money.
If so many are willing to get such an expensive, extreme card then I would only believe it if the majority of these people currently own a 9800 XT or 5950 Ultra. And few people I've came across in this forum own one.
Looks like brand votes, not logic votes.
Just trying to keep it real here and in perspective.

 

[ShinX]

I smell fanboys

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Edge3D
I am curious about all the votes for the 800XT... with no one backing up with a post with a reason WHY they are going that way.

Also, anyone who buys the 6800 Ultra Extreme OR the 800XT would typically have owned the 9800XT or 5950 Ultra.. if they didnt, I honestly doubt their sincerity because those cards (XT and NVs extremely uber cards) are for those with money, that are willing to shell out the money.
If so many are willing to get such an expensive, extreme card then I would only believe it if they currently own a 9800 XT or 5950 Ultra.
Looks like brand votes, not logic votes.
Just trying to keep it real here and in perspective.

I voted for the 800XT, and I'm currently running a 9700PRO. I don't see how someone's current videocard should factor into anything, but whatever, you have the right to your opinion.

In retrospect I probably should have voted for the GT, but I didn't even know what it was until I read some of the posts about it on the forums here.

That said, money aside, the X800XT is the best card of the bunch whether you'd like to admit it or not (I would say "not" in your case as you obviously "prefer" nVidia). I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but it seems like you started this thread because you didn't like what Anand wrote in his conclusion so you decided to come up with something of your own. If you read some of the other hardware sites you will find that they also concluded that the X800XT was superior to nVidia's offerings. Tom's Hardware and HardOCP come to mind off the top of my head, and to me the 3 most read and probably the most respected hardware sites are Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, and HardOCP. So: the top 3 hardware sites all say that the X800XT wins, and then you have some junior member of the AT forums who likes to believe that it's the other way around. Sorry, maybe when you have a hardware website of your own with 1,000,000 hits per month and all the newest graphics cards in your hand I will grant you more credibility. At this point I'm going to listen to Anand, Kyle, and Tom.

 

[Avalon]

I'd vote, but I'm still not sure yet of which card I want. The 6800 GT looks very promising, with it's more affordable price and excellent performance with the ability to overclock to its big brothers. I may wait for a price drop on it before buying it. Also, the other reason why I am waiting is because I haven't heard anything of the X800SE yet. I'm wondering how it will fare vs. the GT card, and if it too may come with the ability to overclock nicely enough to yield respectable performance...my last longshot hope with the SE card is that I can softmod, but it doesn't appear likely to be allowable according to released specs

 

[Excelsior]

I didnt even know about the GT, but I do like it.

However, still gonna wait for a new mobo/cpu an pci-express cards.

 

[Dman877]

Depending on how the drivers develope and how well these cards run Doom3 (will that even be out this summer?) I'll be going GT or Pro sometime in late July I think.

 

[Edge3D]

Well, I'm just saying that I'd bet all 14 or so of those people will be rethinking that decision when they have to pay for it.

I'd suspected more people would go for the X800 Pro or 6800 GT. Seriously.
I think once they see the total at the cash register they'll think differently.. it doesnt seem real to have that many people actually saying they are definitively buying one. Which is why I added the DONT VOTE UNLESS YOUR BUYING ONE -THIS SUMMER-

I didnt want votes for some other year, or "maybes". Seems like since the X800XT is the only ATI that layed the smack down (because the GT honestly is about on par or better than the Pro), seems to be a brand-vote for many. I'm not calling anyone out dude. Just a good point.

But usually those who would really pay for that XT, woudl usually "have" to have the uber card always.. hence I would generally suspect most of those people are the types to be running a 9800XT or 5950 right now.
Doesnt that make sense?

Or did everyone suddenly turn into uber enthusiasts around here? Everyones going to be rockin a 800XT by the end of summer? LOL
I'll believe it when I see it. I just wanted honesty.

PS. I didnt ask for you (sickbeast) to judge my credibility. I have the same benchmark results Anand/Tom and that moron Kyle has.
So how is that any less information to draw my conclusion from? Because we now have the EXACT same information they do.
Instead of rip into this "junior member", simply tell me why YOU think I'm wrong on my conclusion and analysis of Anands benchmarks. Duh. Unless you can get your buddy Anand or Tom to tell me why.

Like I said, think for yourself. Is it really that hard?

 

[GeneralGrievous]

If I was gonna dump $400 on a GT, I figure might as well go all out and get the X800XT.

 

[SickBeast]

Isn't the GT $300 tho?

 

[Edge3D]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
If I was gonna dump $400 on a GT, I figure might as well go all out and get the X800XT.

THANK YOU! Seriously. Logic. You are my favorite man right now. I like that response. Its a good point.

My reasoning is that something is fishy, or needs time to work itself out (drivers) when the GT beats it in 3 of Anands benchmarks.. thats my only thing. I'd save my extra money.. plus by mid summer hopefully my GT will be down a bit from $400.. who knows.
Between that and my 9800 Pro/ATI TV wonder driver woes give a few points for myself, personally, towards an NV purchase. I've had flawless experience since the Geforce DDR with NV drivers here. So the drivers still play a big role for my purchasing decision.

 

[BBC454]

I am piecing together a system which will be used for mostly gaming and some video editing. I am going to buy the X800XT Platinum. Price does matter, but I think it is worth it seeing as how these cards are most likely going to be the last AGP cards and I upgrade everything about every 2-2.5 years. The XT has a big leap on some games over the others or is on par. Also, I do not care for the idea of overclocking since you are eventually shooting yourself in the foot; after a year or so the card will be slower due to the excess heat throughout it's life. So unless NV ups the performance on the ultra before it is released, I will be going with the ATI. Besides, you have to have something to show off to your friends.

 

[Stoneburner]

I got a few questions. FIrst, I can't find any site that has a regular 3dmark03 benchmark, 1024x786 and all that. Second, HAS ANYBODY TRIED OVERCLOCKING THE XT OR THE PRO? Can't find that either. Third. not so much of a question but I guess the nv40 isn't going to be clocked at 600mhz just yet.

 

[Jeff7181]

Who won? I did... you did... we all did. ATi raised the bar and made nVidia get down to the nitty gritty. These cards are the results... anyone who scoffs at a 100% increase in performance AND new features needs to have their head examined.

What card you buy will be determined by the games you play and your budget... or at least it should be

 

[Edge3D]

Originally posted by: BBC454
I am piecing together a system which will be used for mostly gaming and some video editing. I am going to buy the X800XT Platinum. Price does matter, but I think it is worth it seeing as how these cards are most likely going to be the last AGP cards and I upgrade everything about every 2-2.5 years. The XT has a big leap on some games over the others or is on par. Also, I do not care for the idea of overclocking since you are eventually shooting yourself in the foot; after a year or so the card will be slower due to the excess heat throughout it's life. So unless NV ups the performance on the ultra before it is released, I will be going with the ATI. Besides, you have to have something to show off to your friends.

Someone like you needs to wait for Anands updated 6800 Ultra Extreme/6850 (not sure what its called exactly) to be incorporated into the results.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I got a few questions. FIrst, I can't find any site that has a regular 3dmark03 benchmark, 1024x786 and all that. Second, HAS ANYBODY TRIED OVERCLOCKING THE XT OR THE PRO? Can't find that either. Third. not so much of a question but I guess the nv40 isn't going to be clocked at 600mhz just yet.

Yeah hexus.net overclocked the X800XT and it was a bit of a shame; they only hit 535 on the core from 520 default. On the memory they got it 100mhz faster (from 1000mhz?), and in the end they got about a 10% performance boost, which is really nothing when you think about it.

As for the 6800U, I think it did a little better on the core (450 from 400?), but the memory didn't do very well at all.

I'm not sure that these are retail cards that they're using tho, so YMMV.