Anands X850 Article is up

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas
wow i cant wait to get my hands on that XL, all it may need is a little overclcoking and you have yourself a X850-XT.

A little??

540 vs. 400 on the core? That's a 35% increase. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. Considering 6800GT is available for $370-380 right now, and @Ultra speeds it puts a good showing vs. x850 PE even, why wait this long for X800XL (unless u want PCIe).

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow they have as many models in the market as they have shipped X800XT PEs

Heh. Close, but not quite. Not that ATi doesn't seem to be trying to prove you right.

NVidia GeForce 6800 GT 20,275 1.55 %
ATI Radeon X800 PRO 13,816 1.06 %
ATI Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition 4,369 0.33 %
NVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 4,291 0.33 %
ATI Radeon X800 XT 4,286 0.33 %

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow they have as many models in the market as they have shipped X800XT PEs

Heh. Close, but not quite. Not that ATi doesn't seem to be trying to prove you right.

NVidia GeForce 6800 GT 20,275 1.55 %
ATI Radeon X800 PRO 13,816 1.06 %
ATI Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition 4,369 0.33 %
NVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 4,291 0.33 %
ATI Radeon X800 XT 4,286 0.33 %

Wonder what cards are in that "other" category.

 

[MegaWorks]

WOW! check out the ATI Radeon 9800 Series 156,860 11.99 %

 

[nRollo]

Jiffy:

You and Rollo have this idea that ATI essentially pilfered the entire 9700 Pro design from ArtX (despite the fact that they bought the company) and that anything good that has ever come out of ATI wasn't even their doing, but from ArtX. For some reason you begrudge ATI any credit whatsoever, as if this personally offends you. You neglect to mention any headway ATI made with the original Radeon cards and their slow but steady progress in making competitive GPU's, and their progress in writing non-sh!t drivers.

WTF? Loved my VIVO, loved my MAXX more, crap drivers and all. All cards have their pros/cons, I just like cards.

I'm using my 6800NU now while my 6800GT gathers dust on the shelf. If I had an x800, Parhelia, or XGI Volari here, it would be in the box.

(the one downside of parenting- can't buy every card on the market to try anymore )

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
well, package it however you like, but isn't that essentially what happened?

they bought artx and their technology, which led to the r3xx.

Right, they bought ArtX and their technology - they didn't buy the R3xx. They implemented some ArtX technology and features in the R3xx. But ATI designed the R3xx, and the newly acquired engineers from ArtX helped. Rollo and co. make it sound like ATI bought a final R3xx board from them and rolled out production from there. They neglect to mention all of the ATI technology in there as well.

well, i don't think that's true at all, rather the other way around.

r3xx was a completely different direction for ati, and it was put to ati's west coast team which was comprised mainly of former artx personnel (many of which had come from sgi). this occured AFTER the reorganization and acquisition of artx, so while it's not entirely impossible some existing ati's tech may have been involved, it's doubtful there was a substantial amount.

the entire ideology of the way ati did things changed, again AFTER the acquisition of artx. you have to remember that before r3xx development started, ati's concept was "we have to provide a product at this pricepoint, so do the best you can with this amount of die space". ati's thinking (or perhpas more accurately, dave orton, who was behind most of the reorganization) was that low volume, "high end" parts drove the sale of the high volume, low end parts, and told the west coast team to do whatever it took; no contstraints.

we weren't there, so it's hard to say, but it's alot more plausible that some ati tech may have made it into r3xx rather than the other way around. ati bought artx at a time when many things were changing, and what they did after that was a completely different way of thinking than that of the "old" ati.

I hope they believe you more than me Cainam.....

The only reason I ever bring this up is when people complain about something not working on the nV3X or nV4X the day they hit the street- I'm just pointing out that these were new cores for nVidia that they're having to develop gold standard drivers for as they go, they din't have the luxury of acquiring a great core design and it's designers then spend two years tweaking it.

I'm not trying to diminish the R300, at the time, the 9700P/9800P were the best cards I have ever had. (although not sentimental favorites due to lack of elaborate cooling, dual GPU, or SLI)

 

[jiffylube1024]

Wow, some amazing stats from that Valve survey:

ATI Rage Fury MAXX 1,496 0.11 %
PowerVR KYRO/KYRO II 32MB/64MB 1,485 0.11 %
NVidia GeForce FX 5800 Series 1,419 0.11 %
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 1,407 0.11 %
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000/9100 IGP 1,390 0.11 %
ATI Rage 128 1,268 0.10 %
ATI Rage Pro AGP 2X 1,238 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce FX Go5700 1,211 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 440 Go 1,208 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 4200 Go 1,170 0.09 %
ATI Radeon X800 SE 1,162 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 440 Go 64M 1,068 0.08 %

As many Rage Fury MAXX cards as 5800 series cards for Half Life!!! Can you believe it!

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Wow, some amazing stats from that Valve survey:

ATI Rage Fury MAXX 1,496 0.11 %
PowerVR KYRO/KYRO II 32MB/64MB 1,485 0.11 %
NVidia GeForce FX 5800 Series 1,419 0.11 %
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 1,407 0.11 %
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000/9100 IGP 1,390 0.11 %
ATI Rage 128 1,268 0.10 %
ATI Rage Pro AGP 2X 1,238 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce FX Go5700 1,211 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 440 Go 1,208 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 4200 Go 1,170 0.09 %
ATI Radeon X800 SE 1,162 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 440 Go 64M 1,068 0.08 %

As many Rage Fury MAXX cards as 5800 series cards for Half Life!!! Can you believe it!

That's so funny!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: JackBurton
That card took a beating in Doom 3 vs the 6800 Ultra, but it did really well in Battlefield Vietnam and HL2.

It's the exact same architecture as before so it has the exact same weaknesses and strengths as before. Weak in Doom3, strong in BF:V, strong in Source games and pretty similar to Nvidia's cards in everything else.

Originally posted by: SonicIce
Then 5 months later, all existing cards are rendered obsolete by next gen

Yup. That's the sad fact of today's video card market.

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Spamdini
the fact that that same core is competitive goes to show u something though dont u think?

Take a 486 processor, and run it at 3.6GHz (if you could). It would run just as fast as a 3.6 Northy, but all the bells and whistles would not be there. (

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Spamdini
the fact that that same core is competitive goes to show u something though dont u think?

Take a 486 processor, and run it at 3.6GHz (if you could). It would run just as fast as a 3.6 Northy, but all the bells and whistles would not be there. (Netburst, MMX,SSE123m HT, other crap).

So, it goes to show me that ATI utilized ArtX's blowout design two years ago, and barely did anything since except add pipes and ramp up clocks. It is a good architecture no doubt, but that can only go so far.

).

So, it goes to show me that ATI utilized ArtX's blowout design two years ago, and barely did anything since except add pipes and ramp up clocks. It is a good architecture no doubt, but that can only go so far.

You need to get off the Troll ATI Bandwaggon with your ridiculuos analogies. Comparing ATI's lack of SM 3.0 support to a 486 at today's processor speeds is inane, stupid and wrong. Even Northwood has a better IPC than a 486 and most certainly every other modern CPU architecture (Pentium M, Athlon64, Athlon XP, etc) would absolutely crush the 486. The 486 would be severely hampered by it's lack of L2 cache, it's lack of MMX and SSE1/2 support (which pretty much all games support now), it's slow FSB speeds, it's lack of supporting anything beyond EDO memory, etc.

Or should we change the definition to be "a 3.6 Ghz 486 with modern DDR dual channel memory, including SSE1/2 support, now including a full-speed on-die cache, vastly improved branch prediction, with support for higher FSB's." Kind of doesn't make it a 486 anymore, don't you think?

Your argument is also nonsense by labelling "Netburst, MMX,SSE123m HT, other crap" mere "bells and whistles," and by just making a vague claim that this hypothetical 3.6 GHz 486 would be as fast as a 3.6 Ghz Northwood. As fast at doing what, exactly? In Video encoding the P4 would kill the 3.6 GHz 486 because of SSE 1 and 2. In games the faster FSB and memory bandwidth of the P4 as well as SSE1/2, etc would allow it to destroy the 486.


You and Rollo have this idea that ATI essentially pilfered the entire 9700 Pro design from ArtX (despite the fact that they bought the company) and that anything good that has ever come out of ATI wasn't even their doing, but from ArtX. For some reason you begrudge ATI any credit whatsoever, as if this personally offends you. You neglect to mention any headway ATI made with the original Radeon cards and their slow but steady progress in making competitive GPU's, and their progress in writing non-sh!t drivers.

My analogy was extreme, but I find that people understand things better when you use an extreme analogy because it makes it easier to see the point. I thank you for picking it apart and calling me stupid and the whole nine yards. But everyone has off days, don't you agree? So, my analogy was just fine as your the only one complaining about it so far. There was no malice in it but you chose to make it that way.
Hey, we are the choices we make, aren't we....

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Wow, some amazing stats from that Valve survey:

ATI Rage Fury MAXX 1,496 0.11 %
PowerVR KYRO/KYRO II 32MB/64MB 1,485 0.11 %
NVidia GeForce FX 5800 Series 1,419 0.11 %
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 1,407 0.11 %
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000/9100 IGP 1,390 0.11 %
ATI Rage 128 1,268 0.10 %
ATI Rage Pro AGP 2X 1,238 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce FX Go5700 1,211 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 440 Go 1,208 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 4200 Go 1,170 0.09 %
ATI Radeon X800 SE 1,162 0.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 440 Go 64M 1,068 0.08 %

As many Rage Fury MAXX cards as 5800 series cards for Half Life!!! Can you believe it!

The MAXX is teh roxor. R.I.P. ol' buddy.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Mikeyflan
Ati crazy I like'em but they crazy.

A good thing may come from these new models is that when they do come out the x800 models prices will go down hopfully.

Sorry, but I disagree with you on this one. If ATi is anything, they are conservative... Who had the balls to introduce the dustbuster 1 1/2 years ago? Certainly not ATi... Whether you think the 5800Ultra was a good card or not, you have to admit that this will go down in video card hsitory because of it's "uniqueness". Another thing... I personally feel that nVidia helped bring AMD to where they are today. Before nForce2, there weren't any really great chipset options for AMD users. Finally, nVidia pretty much changed the face of the video card market with their aggressive product cycles and excellent driver support. We expect what we do from video hardware because of nVidia. While nVidia crushed 3dfx, ATI was making stong inroads into the OEM market - a frugal and pretty wise move, but not exactly bordering on wacky.

Even now, there is nothing crazy about ATi's new launch, except for maybe the sheer number of different models. This is just another slight speed bump with a new badge. If anything, this is pretty uninteresting, since many X800 series owners have probably already overclocked their cards to these speeds anyway. Don't get me wrong, I think the X800 XL will be a solid performer for the money and will quite likely find it's way into many a happy gamer's hands, but I fail to see how ATi is crazy. Personally, I like to see companies forge ahead and take risks by offering new products with new ideas. IMO, in the PC hardware arena, the real leaders and innovators are AMD (64-bit capability and outstanding 32-bit performance) and nVidia (SLI, nForce chipsets, and early implementation of DirectX9c).

...maybe R500 will change that, we shall see....

 

[Avalon]

I'd like to see what ATI's 110nm X800XL can do as far as overclocking, if you slap an adequate HSF on it. If it can even reach 500mhz core often, it will be a viable alternative to the 6800GT, unless of course if you must have SM3.0...or AGP...lol

 

[ronnn]

I thought the review was a bit lame, in the sense that the resolutions and settings of the benchies were a bit limited and that they didn't totally stress the x850 xt pe to get a real idea of loud they are going to be (this is of greatest interest to me). Especially after making enough of deal about it to supply a start up audio file. Seemed to infer the card will be noisy in summer conditions, but left it at that. Reminded me of the type of journalism (inuendo) shown by DH. Also would be nice to see the ATI cards with overdrive enabled pitted against the 6800 oc models. I guess the good news for consumers is that the mid high end cards seem to be becoming a sweet spot and competition should be intense. :beer:

 

[Pete]

How much more can they stress it than by running 16x12 4x16? Unless you mean by raising the room temp, which I guess they could've done.

Look, the Shuttle Zen is the quietest SFF out there, and its single fan also starts up at full throttle. I suspect this is to avoid potential sticking problems as the fans get older and grimier, and also to cover extreme conditions (such as tropical climes or poor case ventilation). Annoying, but better to have a two second blast at start-up than a constant whine.

Besides, how often do buyers of $500 video cards shut their PCs off, anyway?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
What else is new?

7 months have passed and still the best bang for the buck is 6800GT @ Ultra speeds for $380.

Really? How about softmoding a vivo to XTPE? You actually get the 1.6ns ram there.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Pete
How much more can they stress it than by running 16x12 4x16? Unless you mean by raising the room temp, which I guess they could've done.

Look, the Shuttle Zen is the quietest SFF out there, and its single fan also starts up at full throttle. I suspect this is to avoid potential sticking problems as the fans get older and grimier, and also to cover extreme conditions (such as tropical climes or poor case ventilation). Annoying, but better to have a two second blast at start-up than a constant whine.

Besides, how often do buyers of $500 video cards shut their PCs off, anyway?

Lol. Yeah you really cant stress it anymore as most monitors and most games do not support 2048x1536. THerefore ronn you have been pwned.

Too bad Nvidia isn't going to release a fall refresh. However, looking at the benches they dont really need one. THe only two big winners/losers are DIII and HL2. All the other games are traded off between the two, and no matter which card you pick they both run very nicely.

Zebo the softmod is usually around $400. The X800Pro VIVO's aren't cheap. So the price you pay to use the softmod is usually very high.

-Kevin

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
What else is new?

7 months have passed and still the best bang for the buck is 6800GT @ Ultra speeds for $380.

Really? How about softmoding a vivo to XTPE? You actually get the 1.6ns ram there.

Give me a link for one and I'll buy it. Must be in stock. No preordering.
And not a gouged price either.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
What else is new?

7 months have passed and still the best bang for the buck is 6800GT @ Ultra speeds for $380.

Really? How about softmoding a vivo to XTPE? You actually get the 1.6ns ram there.

Good luck finding a VIVO at the same price.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow they have as many models in the market as they have shipped X800XT PEs

Heh. Close, but not quite. Not that ATi doesn't seem to be trying to prove you right.

NVidia GeForce 6800 GT 20,275 1.55 %
ATI Radeon X800 PRO 13,816 1.06 %
ATI Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition 4,369 0.33 %
NVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 4,291 0.33 %
ATI Radeon X800 XT 4,286 0.33 %

LOL

Check this out.

ATI Radeon 9800 Series 157,764 x $200 a piece = $31 million

That's more than what the Skydome (Blue Jay's stadium) was sold for in Toronto.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
What else is new?

7 months have passed and still the best bang for the buck is 6800GT @ Ultra speeds for $380.

Really? How about softmoding a vivo to XTPE? You actually get the 1.6ns ram there.

Does that have as high rate of success though? I am not sure, but if it does, then sure it's a better alternative.

 

[Zebo]

Keys $397 shipped http://www.mypcgoodies.com/details.asp?item=SA10X800P

RS, I think it's 100% with VIVO based on my reading of two threads.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...98&highlight_key=y
and
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=312063

I don't know about better but it's right there as far as high levels of goodness. Is and XTPE faster than a 425/1100 GT? There is a link in the OCers thread showing every vivo has the samsung 1.6ns ram which I think gives the vivo a bit more potential. http://www.techpowerup.com/bios/

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Keys $397 shipped http://www.mypcgoodies.com/details.asp?item=SA10X800P

RS, I think it's 100% with VIVO based on my reading of two threads.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...98&highlight_key=y
and
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=312063

I don't know about better but it's right there as far as high levels of goodness. Is and XTPE faster than a 425/1100 GT? There is a link in the OCers thread showing every vivo has the samsung 1.6ns ram which I think gives the vivo a bit more potential. http://www.techpowerup.com/bios/

Not in stock. The price isn't even listed.
In fact,

this is the only X800pro they have in stock. They also have an X800SE. But that's it.