Technically, guns aren't protected under the constitution either. The right to form militias are, and last I checked nobody has signed up for militia duty. People tend to skip past the first part of "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," and go right to the "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" part.
This isn't what I would consider a school shooting, not in a classroom on campus, this is some idiot who pulled a gun on someone at 1am. Also, he didn't legally obtain that gun, he was 18, you can't buy a handgun until you are 21.
Good grief...two a day now?
I wonder how much of this is a result of such sensationalized media coverage? We already know there are copycat crimes. It's well researched that how a suicide case is portrayed in the media will affect others, resulting in an increase or decrease in suicides in the near future.
Can't infringe on the first amendment either though, I guess.
I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd like to think we don't need any form of gun control in the US, but the fact that compact, easily hidden, and easily accessible death machines are available to anyone that suddenly snaps and decides to take some lives makes me think we need to ban handguns.
That is because you are a simpleton. Fix that and you won't have such thoughts in the future.
-KeithP
It's almost a part of our culture now, you know? It seems with the Internet always showing us extreme things, people feel they have to do something extreme to be noticed.
Comedians all seem to be toting the same line.
http://www.theonion.com/article/man-cant-believe-obama-would-use-tragedy-push-anti-51455
Thats because its funny. But it isn't right.
This is one case where I don't think they hit the nail on the head like they normally do. Its just a cheap shot.
You guys are jumping to conclusions because I just saw this on TV and it was an argument that turned into a shooting at a frat that was "unrelated to frat activities."
So probably about a girl or something dumb.
Have you seen the police in Brazil.That it's at a frat or "not technically a mass shooting" is irrelevant; we're not talking about it because of just this incident. The US is pretty unique in its gun culture, and what do we have to show for it other than a bunch of dead people? We're not keeping any police or government forces in check with it, they're all armed with military grade hardware and could take a dump down our collective necks if our collective firepower were all that stood in their way. We're not keeping crazies or gangs in check with it either, if anything they have better access to weapons because they're better motivated. Who are we really kidding?
Now this is the part where I'm expected to explain that I'm not a "gun grabber", that I'm a hunter, and that I like to eat game despite the heretical opinions I just expressed. Those things are all true, but you know what? Fuck you. I shouldn't have to defend my integrity just because I think our redneck obsession with firearms has gotten out out of control. If you didn't jump to conclusions about my political and sexual preferences when you read the first part of this post, this mini-rant does not apply to you - have a good day sir. Otherwise, gfy, tpad, and stfu in whichever order suits you best. Some of us are less interested in flag waving than we are in the end results, and we're better off without your partisan bullshit.
That it's at a frat or "not technically a mass shooting" is irrelevant; we're not talking about it because of just this incident. The US is pretty unique in its gun culture, and what do we have to show for it other than a bunch of dead people? We're not keeping any police or government forces in check with it, they're all armed with military grade hardware and could take a dump down our collective necks if our collective firepower were all that stood in their way. We're not keeping crazies or gangs in check with it either, if anything they have better access to weapons because they're better motivated. Who are we really kidding?
Now this is the part where I'm expected to explain that I'm not a "gun grabber", that I'm a hunter, and that I like to eat game despite the heretical opinions I just expressed. Those things are all true, but you know what? Fuck you. I shouldn't have to defend my integrity just because I think our redneck obsession with firearms has gotten out out of control. If you didn't jump to conclusions about my political and sexual preferences when you read the first part of this post, this mini-rant does not apply to you - have a good day sir. Otherwise, gfy, tpad, and stfu in whichever order suits you best. Some of us are less interested in flag waving than we are in the end results, and we're better off without your partisan bullshit.
Have you seen the police in Brazil.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...n-arizona-university-school-officials-n441561
I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd like to think we don't need any form of gun control in the US, but the fact that compact, easily hidden, and easily accessible death machines are available to anyone that suddenly snaps and decides to take some lives makes me think we need to ban handguns.
I keep hearing "then only criminals will have guns!", but the people doing these mass shootings are usually not criminals---they're nuts! One week they're perfectly sane, the next they get a F on a test or their girlfriend breaks up with them, and the next thing you know a room full of people are laying dead after 5 seconds of pressing a trigger.
I don't know...the cat might have already be let out of the bag, but I just do not see the need for citizens to have access to handguns. There are 32 handgun homicides for every legitimate shooting, so they're obviously not being used for protection.
Fritzo is the man you leave Fritzo alone if you are gonna be like that!
The only well thought out post in the thread. kudos.That happens a lot more frequently than the classic school shooting. Probably a drug deal gone bad. Hell, that kind of stuff happens every so often here in Canada and we have very strict gun laws. If someone wants to hurt someone that badly, they find a way.
As an outsider, I've long found the whole gun debate in the States to be a smokescreen for larger issues. Neither side wants to confront the single biggest question: what makes people resort to violence in the first place.
Countries like Switzerland have lax gun laws but relatively low violent crime. Where as places like Chicago with strict gun laws have high rates of violent crime. Logically, the problem in the US must be cultural and/or social. Money would be far better spent on urban renewal, education, and encouraging economic development. Good, stable jobs that pay a living wage.
As for the crazies, that's a different situation. Most recent shootings involved individuals that showed no outward proclivity towards violence. They just snapped one day. The scary thing is those individuals would qualify for a gun license even in strict jurisdictions. You could do mandatory psyche tests, but then you'd run the risk of civil rights challenges. Part of the problem is a lack mental health awareness, and a lack of funding for mental health care. People don't seek help, help may not be available or affordable, or those around them pass off warning signs as eccentricities.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...n-arizona-university-school-officials-n441561
I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd like to think we don't need any form of gun control in the US, but the fact that compact, easily hidden, and easily accessible death machines are available to anyone that suddenly snaps and decides to take some lives makes me think we need to ban handguns.
I keep hearing "then only criminals will have guns!", but the people doing these mass shootings are usually not criminals---they're nuts! One week they're perfectly sane, the next they get a F on a test or their girlfriend breaks up with them, and the next thing you know a room full of people are laying dead after 5 seconds of pressing a trigger.
I don't know...the cat might have already be let out of the bag, but I just do not see the need for citizens to have access to handguns. There are 32 handgun homicides for every legitimate shooting, so they're obviously not being used for protection.
That happens a lot more frequently than the classic school shooting. Probably a drug deal gone bad. Hell, that kind of stuff happens every so often here in Canada and we have very strict gun laws. If someone wants to hurt someone that badly, they find a way.
As an outsider, I've long found the whole gun debate in the States to be a smokescreen for larger issues. Neither side wants to confront the single biggest question: what makes people resort to violence in the first place.
Countries like Switzerland have lax gun laws but relatively low violent crime. Where as places like Chicago with strict gun laws have high rates of violent crime. Logically, the problem in the US must be cultural and/or social. Money would be far better spent on urban renewal, education, and encouraging economic development. Good, stable jobs that pay a living wage.
As for the crazies, that's a different situation. Most recent shootings involved individuals that showed no outward proclivity towards violence. They just snapped one day. The scary thing is those individuals would qualify for a gun license even in strict jurisdictions. You could do mandatory psyche tests, but then you'd run the risk of civil rights challenges. Part of the problem is a lack mental health awareness, and a lack of funding for mental health care. People don't seek help, help may not be available or affordable, or those around them pass off warning signs as eccentricities.
In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 8 WG). Swiss citizens over the age of 18 who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and who have a clean criminal record can request such a permit. Foreigners with the following citizenship are explicitly excluded from the right to possess weapons: Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania (Art. 12, WV). The following information must be provided to the cantonal weapon bureau together with the weapon application form:
For each transfer of a weapon or an essential weapon component without weapons acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG), a written contract must be concluded. Each Party shall keep them at least ten years. The contract must include the following information (Art. 11 WG):
- valid official identification or passport copy
- residence address
- criminal record copy not older than 3 months
This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holders are registered (Art. 9 WG).
- Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who sells the weapon or essential weapon component
- Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who purchases the weapon or an essential weapon component
- Kind of weapon, manufacturer or producer, label, caliber, weapon number, and date and place of transfer;
- Type and number of official identification of the person who acquires the weapon or the essential weapon component
- and an indication of the processing of personal data in connection with the contract in accordance with the privacy policy of the Federation or the cantons, if firearms are transmitted.
Some weapons do not need a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG):
Buying Ammunition
- Single-shot and multi-barreled hunting rifles and replicas of single-shot muzzle
- By the Federal Council designated hand bolt-action rifles, which are commonly used in off-duty and sporting gunnery recognized by the military law of 3 February 1952 and shooting clubs for hunting purposes in Switzerland
- Single-shot rabbit slayer;
- Compressed air and CO2 weapons that develop a muzzle energy of at least 7.5 joules, or may be confused because of their appearance with real firearms
In order to purchase Ammunition the buyer must follows the same legal rules like for buying guns. The buyer can only buy munition for guns he/she is legally owning and must provide the following information to the seller (Art. 15, 16 WG; Art 24 WV):[7][8]
This also applies for weapons which do not require a weapon acquisition permit (see above, excluding the weapon acquisition permit, of course).
- valid official identification or passport (and must be older than 18 who are not psychiatric-ally disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and must not be a citizen of the following countries (Art. 12 WV): Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania)
- residence address
- criminal record copy not older than 3 months
- weapon acquisition permit not older than 2 years, or a weapon carrying permit not older than 5 years
This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holder is registered.
The same applies to black powder and modern black powder substitutes for use in firing historical rifles.
The possession of the following munition is generally prohibited:
- Ammunition with armor piercing bullets
- Ammunition with projectiles containing an explosive or incendiary device
- Ammunition with one or more floors to the release of substances which damage the health of people in the long run
- Ammunition, missiles and missile launchers for military explosive
- Ammunition with projectiles for transmitting electric shocks
- Ammunition for handguns with deformation effect
Until recently, Swiss citizens had both ammo and rifle kept at their homes. The Czech Republic still has gun laws roughly on par with the more strict states, and no states currently have laws sufficient to prevent spree killings.