And you think IE sucks

[Malak]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't like adware very much Yeah, that banner at the top. Nooooo, thank you.

So you would give up using the very best browser on the market based on a banner that is less than one inch in height? I don't know if you are aware of this, but it literally takes no space. It's entirely text. And IE with the google toolbar(you wouldn't run IE without it right?) has a larger tool area than Opera does even with the ad banner. No doubt Firefox isn't any better either.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak man.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't like adware very much Yeah, that banner at the top. Nooooo, thank you. But I will try it tomorrow for a launch-speed comparison on one of my old Gateway Celeron 566's w/256MB RAM, and drop you a PM with the launch-speed results.

Opera released free 7.xx codes (to promote their new 8.xx browser) a few weeks ago. Was posted in Hot Deals . Most of them work with the Opera 8 browser as well.

To be honest, I like the 7's control panel better, but 8 had AdBlock; so I'm using 8.

Do let me know how those speed tests go

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't like adware very much Yeah, that banner at the top. Nooooo, thank you.

So you would give up using the very best browser on the market based on a banner that is less than one inch in height? I don't know if you are aware of this, but it literally takes no space. It's entirely text. And IE with the google toolbar(you wouldn't run IE without it right?) has a larger tool area than Opera does even with the ad banner. No doubt Firefox isn't any better either.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak man.

Would you run a browser that takes long enough to launch that you can go get coffee while you're waiting? Even on my 15k-SCSI-equipped A64, IE is noticably faster to launch than anything else I've tried, including (yes) Opera with the banner ad urging me to "cut my bills." If they've changed the banner ad to something less annoying, then .

As for Opera being the best, you must have different ideas than I do. To me, the best browser is the one that operates without problems, the one the employees are familiar with, the one that I can centrally manage, secure & patch from my WS2003 server rather than going and manually updating ~100 computers every time a new glitch is discovered in (Netscape, FireFox, Opera, IE, your choice). We only use FireFox because I got overridden from above.

Google toolbar? What do you like about it, out of curiosity? (no I don't use any toolbars, pure IE6 here).


edit for speeling

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Would you run a browser that takes long enough to launch that you can go get coffee while you're waiting? Even on my 15k-SCSI-equipped A64, IE is noticably faster to launch than anything else I've tried, including (yes) Opera with the banner ad urging me to "cut my bills." If they've changed the banner ad to something less annoying, then .

The ad banner has always been like this, there is an option to switch to the text-only google ads, which are content specific to whatever you are reading. They are actually useful. Opera does not load that slow, and you can simply press ctrl+H to hide it in the systray for later use. Loads faster than IE then Besides, which matters more? Faster site loading or the one-time faster launch speed?

As for Opera being the best, you must have different ideas than I do. To me, the best browser is the one that operates without problems, the one the employees are familiar with, the one that I can centrally manage, secure & patch from my WS2003 server rather than going and manually updating ~100 computers every time a new glitch is discovered in (Netscape, FireFox, Opera, IE, your choice). We only use FireFox because I got overridden from above.

Never had any problems with Opera myself. Considering just about every extension of firefox is a copy of a function native to Opera, I'm sure you can figure out how to use it. Simple web surfing is just as easy as IE, just a lot more comfortable. Opera does not need updates very often, in fact Firefox updates more than Opera.

Google toolbar? What do you like about it, out of curiosity? (no I don't use any toolbars, pure IE6 here).

Oh I use naked IE myself. But the reason most people use google toolbar is for the built in google search and popup blocker. Of course, Opera already has both.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

You guys actually pay attention to memory usage? I sure as hell don't. I guess if my machine started slowing down I would, but otherwise, who cares? Use what you like.

 

[mechBgon]

Opera does not load that slow

Have you ever run a fully-armed VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i installation?

Besides, which matters more? Faster site loading or the one-time faster launch speed?

If it's like FireFox, it will not hold cacheing for long if it's closed, and then it takes another 20-40 seconds to re-launch on my medium-to-slow rigs (1GHz P3 on down). Again, if you haven't used a fully-armed VSE8 install, I don't think you are in the picture here. And if you think our employees will go for CTRL H tricks and stuff, then you got another thing coming... when I started, we had one lady who didn't know how to turn a computer ON.

Never had any problems with Opera myself.

Good for you Try accepting an emailed invite to an online MS Office meeting on a system whose primary browser is not IE. Or getting MS Office clipart online from Microsoft on a system whose primary browser is not IE. Or getting onto an Exchange server on the Web on a ...yeah. The employees ran into a lot of issues, including crashing, lockups and plain old this-site-don't-work-with-a-Mozilla-based-browser problems. Guess who they call for help. Welcome to my world. I'm not being obtuse, I have very good reasons for wanting a homogenous MS-on-MS setup.

IE6 has a pop-up blocker on WinXP SP2. Google is already in my Favorites list and my Links list. No need to go sticking search bars onto my browser, that smacks of adware to me.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Have you ever run a fully-armed VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i installation?

No, but I don't see why you do either. Sounds like you have more issues than just poor browser selection

Besides, who said anything about choosing alternative browsers for offices? Obviously it'd be a tech support nightmare switching to much more complex software for doing something so simple as browsing. At home, on the other hand, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's like getting off a wooden bench and relaxing in a lazy-boy.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Opera does not load that slow

Have you ever run a fully-armed VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i installation?

Besides, which matters more? Faster site loading or the one-time faster launch speed?

If it's like FireFox, it will not hold cacheing for long if it's closed, and then it takes another 20-40 seconds to re-launch on my medium-to-slow rigs (1GHz P3 on down). Again, if you haven't used a fully-armed VSE8 install, I don't think you are in the picture here. And if you think our employees will go for CTRL H tricks and stuff, then you got another thing coming... when I started, we had one lady who didn't know how to turn a computer ON.

Never had any problems with Opera myself.

Good for you Try accepting an emailed invite to an online MS Office meeting on a system whose primary browser is not IE. Or getting MS Office clipart online from Microsoft on a system whose primary browser is not IE. Or getting onto an Exchange server on the Web on a ...yeah. The employees ran into a lot of issues, including crashing, lockups and plain old this-site-don't-work-with-a-Mozilla-based-browser problems. Guess who they call for help. Welcome to my world. I'm not being obtuse, I have very good reasons for wanting a homogenous MS-on-MS setup.

IE6 has a pop-up blocker on WinXP SP2. Google is already in my Favorites list and my Links list. No need to go sticking search bars onto my browser, that smacks of adware to me.

You, to put it kindly, are the posterchild of vendor lock-in.

 

[mechBgon]

No, but I don't see why you do either.

No, I don't suppose you do.

You, to put it kindly, are the posterchild of vendor lock-in.

This isn't the right field to go trying a full-on Microsoft-free environment, guy. My users couldn't hack it.

 

[jadinolf]

I can't imagine why Netscape would even bother come come out with it.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: homercles337
MS, TOOL please die.

Wow, a little criticism for Mozilla and the namecalling begins. How typical of fanboys.

Wow, a little trolling and fanboyism and the namecalling continues. How typical of counter-fanboys.

Address the possibility of OS integration hiding memory footprint.

Hahaha. :roll: I use Firefox and Mozilla both, not to mention Thunderbird, I'm just not an anti-MS snob like some people. Address that.

OK, good for you. You are a (mostly) non-zealous pragmatist, and I am a (mostly) non-zealous idealist, and most people haven't come down from their zealous high, and some never will. You can't judge people or programs by their problems at face value---or rather, I think you shouldn't---and expect a full answer, but most people don't care for the full answer, because they have "better" things to do, so they use such a heuristic.

Satisfactory? You sidestepped my request to ask yours, so I'm just humoring you by going first.

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
Owned.

Not likely.

If load times are what get you, preload the sucker.

 

[Nothinman]

Yeah you can compare IE and Firefox all day, but Opera is still faster than both, and has 10x the functionality to boot.

10x? Have you looked at mozdev lately? There's over 400 extensions for FF on there.

And Opera is non-free, so it's non-starter from the get-go for me.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
Owned.

Not likely.

Sorry. That was a bit rude. I'm just sick of the absolutely ridiculous "broswer war" and all the stupid taglines like "take back the net" and "spread firefox." Who cares? I tell my less savvy friends to use FireFox for security. I choose to use IE for personal reasons (speed and a particular design decision) and because I keep it up to date. The blatant and aggressive fanboyism is just stupid. Megatomic called the situation like it was, you accused him of being a fanboy, and he told you why you were wrong. So, not owned, perhaps. But certainly corrected.

 

[WdnUlik2no]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Downloaded and trying out Netscape 8.0.1 - talk about bloatware! 64meg footprint just browsing AT!

Yuk.

Agree 110% with you!

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Have you ever run a fully-armed VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i installation?

No, but I don't see why you do either. Sounds like you have more issues than just poor browser selection

As far as I know, I thought mechBgon worked at some large corporation

Personally, in a company that size I wouldn't use anything BUT IE. Anything else is too much of a pain in the ass to upgrade. That's something that both FireFox AND Opera need to work on. Some kind of automated updates that allow you to patch your browser and not have to redownload and reinstall the thing every time you need to update it.

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Yeah you can compare IE and Firefox all day, but Opera is still faster than both, and has 10x the functionality to boot.

10x? Have you looked at mozdev lately? There's over 400 extensions for FF on there.

And Opera is non-free, so it's non-starter from the get-go for me.

You going to sit there and download all of them?

Read above. They released 7.xx codes a few weeks ago. Most of them still work with the 8.xx browser. The browser itself is free. Just has a really small ad in the corner

 

[SunnyD]

Um, other than mechBgon's posts, I never realized this thread would degrade to such idioticy. Sorry to all the Fanboys for offending you. I'll be sure not to post my thoughts on Boy-Bands & The Next American Idol. :roll:

So much for constructive comments.

 

[AllGoodNamesAreTaken]

Opera 7.x was a big memory hog on my system ( P3 800MHz 512MB ). Opera 8 is much better. At the moment, I have 23 open tabs and the memory footprint is just shy of 60MB ( with auto memory cache disabled ).

- $0.02

 

[mechBgon]

Some kind of automated updates that allow you to patch your browser and not have to redownload and reinstall the thing every time you need to update it.

Yeah, and not just patch it... patch the whole fleet centrally from the server, and manage the various browser settings for the whole fleet centrally from the server (since our employees' accounts don't have the power to patch/install ANYTHING). Then I'd say Microsoft has some competition in the corporate realm. Not being a l33t coder dude, I can't write my own central-management console, either.

edit: if they can integrate alternate-browser configuration control into an AD schema, then we'd be cookin' with gas

edit 2: and I want all the alternate browsers to come in .MSI installer format too

 

[Nothinman]

You going to sit there and download all of them?

No, because I don't want all of that functionality, which is one reason why I like FF better than Opera. It's extensible instead of cramming everything into one closed-source binary.

Read above. They released 7.xx codes a few weeks ago. Most of them still work with the 8.xx browser. The browser itself is free. Just has a really small ad in the corner

It's not free. You need a license to get rid of an advertisement and it's closed source, no thanks.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't like adware very much Yeah, that banner at the top. Nooooo, thank you. But I will try it tomorrow for a launch-speed comparison on one of my old Gateway Celeron 566's w/256MB RAM, and drop you a PM with the launch-speed results.

Last round, it was IE launching in ~2 seconds, FireFox launching in ~45 seconds. With our unit cost billing out at over $100 per hour here, you can see why I'm not too enthused about browsers that take 20-40 seconds to launch and don't even have a dasm splash screen to indicate they're on the way :| Although at least Netscape has one, last I checked.

Results tomorrow, unless I forget For reference: VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i, ph33r it!!! :Q

Try Mozilla's quick launch.

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by: gshock888
not a MS hater or fanboy, but did you guys ever think that since IE is tightly integrated into the OS, that the memory/footprint might be offloaded to other DLL or EXE files? just a thought...

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by: nOObBooB

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: nOObBooB

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos
Memory usage was never a reason for ditching IE

Its mine against firefox. So much memory useage then gets slow when responding.

Are you sure that any speed or lack thereof is simply not what you wish to perceive? And if it is not only that, how can you demonstrate this?

I have used both IE and firefox alot. Just from viewing a webpage and the number of times firefox has become unstable and crashed. Just take a step back, load up IE and use it sometime, you might notice a difference.

Believe me if you wish, but i am sure i am not alone.

i use IE at work and firefox at home on a regular basis and i can't get used to IE... not havings tabs just blows... also if your computer is half decent firefox shouldn't load that much slower than IE and the memory usage shouldn't cripple you...

btw firefox is taking 30megs right now... 2 windows open and 3 tabs on one of them.
booya!

also the lack of adblock just kills me, some pages load so much faster in firefox cause of no flash ads etc...

 

[mechBgon]

Try Mozilla's quick launch.

k, one more browser on my test queue

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

You going to sit there and download all of them?

No, because I don't want all of that functionality, which is one reason why I like FF better than Opera. It's extensible instead of cramming everything into one closed-source binary.

Read above. They released 7.xx codes a few weeks ago. Most of them still work with the 8.xx browser. The browser itself is free. Just has a really small ad in the corner

It's not free. You need a license to get rid of an advertisement and it's closed source, no thanks.

Blah blah blah, we've all heard it before. It is free by every consumer definition(except yours of course). And whether you want the functionality or not, it doesn't take any more memory nor is the install file any bigger than firefox, so it's functionality that is there for when you realize you do want it. To any other person, Opera is perfect. But OMG it's closed source and you get your panties in a bunch... :roll:

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: Nothinman

You going to sit there and download all of them?

No, because I don't want all of that functionality, which is one reason why I like FF better than Opera. It's extensible instead of cramming everything into one closed-source binary.

Read above. They released 7.xx codes a few weeks ago. Most of them still work with the 8.xx browser. The browser itself is free. Just has a really small ad in the corner

It's not free. You need a license to get rid of an advertisement and it's closed source, no thanks.

Blah blah blah, we've all heard it before. It is free by every consumer definition(except yours of course). And whether you want the functionality or not, it doesn't take any more memory nor is the install file any bigger than firefox, so it's functionality that is there for when you realize you do want it. To any other person, Opera is perfect. But OMG it's closed source and you get your panties in a bunch... :roll:

Just a note: Firefox should run on all of my computers.