And you think IE sucks

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: nOObBooB

Originally posted by: bersl2
Address the possibility of OS integration hiding memory footprint. Now.

Well then doesnt that make IE better since it uses the os to its full extent.

Possibly, but a whole lot less secure. If it really is that much better, then the OS itself is horrible if other applications aren't running efficiencly on it.

 

[Nothinman]

Blah blah blah, we've all heard it before. It is free by every consumer definition(except yours of course). And whether you want the functionality or not, it doesn't take any more memory nor is the install file any bigger than firefox, so it's functionality that is there for when you realize you do want it. To any other person, Opera is perfect. But OMG it's closed source and you get your panties in a bunch...

I'm not just a consumer, I'd rather be able to have an actual hand in the development of some of the tools I use but with Opera that option will never exist. And the issue with the extra features isn't memory, although it would probably save a nice chunk, there's other things like security to think about. If I'm not using a piece of code (like say an RSS parser) why should it be there ready to be exploited?

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't like adware very much Yeah, that banner at the top. Nooooo, thank you.

So you would give up using the very best browser on the market based on a banner that is less than one inch in height? I don't know if you are aware of this, but it literally takes no space. It's entirely text. And IE with the google toolbar(you wouldn't run IE without it right?) has a larger tool area than Opera does even with the ad banner. No doubt Firefox isn't any better either.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak man.

Would you run a browser that takes long enough to launch that you can go get coffee while you're waiting? Even on my 15k-SCSI-equipped A64, IE is noticably faster to launch than anything else I've tried, including (yes) Opera with the banner ad urging me to "cut my bills." If they've changed the banner ad to something less annoying, then .

As for Opera being the best, you must have different ideas than I do. To me, the best browser is the one that operates without problems, the one the employees are familiar with, the one that I can centrally manage, secure & patch from my WS2003 server rather than going and manually updating ~100 computers every time a new glitch is discovered in (Netscape, FireFox, Opera, IE, your choice). We only use FireFox because I got overridden from above.

Google toolbar? What do you like about it, out of curiosity? (no I don't use any toolbars, pure IE6 here).


edit for speeling

Mech's point is very valid. It isn't a personal perference decision when it comes to browsers. In an environment such as his, firefox or any other browser for that matter is not going to be fun to deploy and maintain. He's right, OWA on firefox may work but not well. Firefox takes awhile to open a pdf (acrobat 6) that opens quickly on IE. Closing that pdf takes forever too.
Personally, I love firefox and only use IE when absolutely necessary...which is rarely
But it doesn't make sense to use it in my current work environment no matter how much I would like to.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
Owned.

Not likely.

Sorry. That was a bit rude. I'm just sick of the absolutely ridiculous "broswer war" and all the stupid taglines like "take back the net" and "spread firefox." Who cares? I tell my less savvy friends to use FireFox for security. I choose to use IE for personal reasons (speed and a particular design decision) and because I keep it up to date. The blatant and aggressive fanboyism is just stupid. Megatomic called the situation like it was, you accused him of being a fanboy, and he told you why you were wrong. So, not owned, perhaps. But certainly corrected.

The aggressive fanboyism is an unfortunate side effect of the way things are. You see, there would be no reason to aggressively advocate a certain implementation, if all reasonably mature technologies (it's the best term I can come up with ATM) followed (more-or-less) consensus open specifications, such as the W3C ones for web content. However, when one implementation dominates, and this one implementation is designed by a group like Microsoft, who tends to depend open specifications on its own closed ones, those of us who would not like to be at their whim must take drastic measures, which include tapping a vast amount of enthusiasm, for the survival of what we believe.

It is unfortunate that people must be annoyed in the process, but that is the way things are. Advocacy is our only recourse, and unless you can think of a better one...

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: ITJunkie

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't like adware very much Yeah, that banner at the top. Nooooo, thank you.

So you would give up using the very best browser on the market based on a banner that is less than one inch in height? I don't know if you are aware of this, but it literally takes no space. It's entirely text. And IE with the google toolbar(you wouldn't run IE without it right?) has a larger tool area than Opera does even with the ad banner. No doubt Firefox isn't any better either.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak man.

Would you run a browser that takes long enough to launch that you can go get coffee while you're waiting? Even on my 15k-SCSI-equipped A64, IE is noticably faster to launch than anything else I've tried, including (yes) Opera with the banner ad urging me to "cut my bills." If they've changed the banner ad to something less annoying, then .

As for Opera being the best, you must have different ideas than I do. To me, the best browser is the one that operates without problems, the one the employees are familiar with, the one that I can centrally manage, secure & patch from my WS2003 server rather than going and manually updating ~100 computers every time a new glitch is discovered in (Netscape, FireFox, Opera, IE, your choice). We only use FireFox because I got overridden from above.

Google toolbar? What do you like about it, out of curiosity? (no I don't use any toolbars, pure IE6 here).


edit for speeling

Mech's point is very valid. It isn't a personal perference decision when it comes to browsers.

It isn't for you. I've heard many instances where it is.

In an environment such as his, firefox or any other browser for that matter is not going to be fun to deploy and maintain. He's right, OWA on firefox may work but not well.

And my condolences to him for being painted into a corner, for interoperability and design reasons, where the only option in most cases is a MS product fitting with an MS product.

Firefox takes awhile to open a pdf (acrobat 6) that opens quickly on IE. Closing that pdf takes forever too.

Funny, that never happens with xpdf...

Personally, I love firefox and only use IE when absolutely necessary...which is rarely
But it doesn't make sense to use it in my current work environment no matter how much I would like to.

And my condolences to you too.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Um, other than mechBgon's posts, I never realized this thread would degrade to such idioticy. Sorry to all the Fanboys for offending you. I'll be sure not to post my thoughts on Boy-Bands & The Next American Idol. :roll:

So much for constructive comments.

Am I to believe that your comments are phrased constructively? You know, the ones that kicked this whole flamefest off? The ones sprinkled with little unpleasantries, such as "Talk about bloatware!" and "Suck on that"? They don't look that way to me.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: bersl2

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: homercles337
MS, TOOL please die.

Wow, a little criticism for Mozilla and the namecalling begins. How typical of fanboys.

Wow, a little trolling and fanboyism and the namecalling continues. How typical of counter-fanboys.

Address the possibility of OS integration hiding memory footprint.

Hahaha. :roll: I use Firefox and Mozilla both, not to mention Thunderbird, I'm just not an anti-MS snob like some people. Address that.

OK, good for you. You are a (mostly) non-zealous pragmatist, and I am a (mostly) non-zealous idealist, and most people haven't come down from their zealous high, and some never will. You can't judge people or programs by their problems at face value---or rather, I think you shouldn't---and expect a full answer, but most people don't care for the full answer, because they have "better" things to do, so they use such a heuristic.

Satisfactory? You sidestepped my request to ask yours, so I'm just humoring you by going first.

I use Mozilla products but I can't deny the speed with which IE opens, it is impressive. And I'm with everyone else on the memory footprint issue as well. I have 1GB of RAM, I don't care if my browser is using upwards of 100MB. I have plenty to spare.

 

[mechBgon]

for interoperability and design reasons

...not to mention contractual obligations. If you want to offer condolences, offer them for the fact that I have still got about 95% of the fleet to manually update FireFox on, if I can ever catch the employees away from the computers.

My test box is ready, afflicted with four different browsers. I'll test after work and see what the relative launch speeds are.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Screw all of you, I use Firefox, Opera, and MSIE when I feel like it so there. I have all three and say all three are da best baby. DA BEST! ...
...
Where that pipe go? Oh there it is ... wait the walls, their watching ... watching .... arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[mechBgon]

All rightie then, I did my lil' test but am almost out of web space, so grab a copy of this now if you want one. I'm pulling it off again in a couple days, it supplanted the Pentium4 heatsink-clipdown video for the moment to make enough space.

Actually the alternate browsers did better than I expected, some of them got launched in under 15 seconds. IE is consistent at 1-3 seconds regardless. Mozilla did well on the first launch thanks to its Quick Start being enabled, but it didn't on the second launch because the other apps (all browsers in this case) forced it out of cache and then it was at VirusScan Enterprise's mercy again :evil:

Sorry it took two days to get around to that, I was so tired yesterday that I left a little early.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
All rightie then, I did my lil' test but am almost out of web space, so grab a copy of this now if you want one. I'm pulling it off again in a couple days, it supplanted the Pentium4 heatsink-clipdown video for the moment to make enough space.

Actually the alternate browsers did better than I expected, some of them got launched in under 15 seconds. IE is consistent at 1-3 seconds regardless. Mozilla did well on the first launch thanks to its Quick Start being enabled, but it didn't on the second launch because the other apps (all browsers in this case) forced it out of cache and then it was at VirusScan Enterprise's mercy again :evil:

Sorry it took two days to get around to that, I was so tired yesterday that I left a little early.

Nice. Thanks! :beer:

 

[cbehnken]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
All rightie then, I did my lil' test but am almost out of web space, so grab a copy of this now if you want one. I'm pulling it off again in a couple days, it supplanted the Pentium4 heatsink-clipdown video for the moment to make enough space.

Actually the alternate browsers did better than I expected, some of them got launched in under 15 seconds. IE is consistent at 1-3 seconds regardless. Mozilla did well on the first launch thanks to its Quick Start being enabled, but it didn't on the second launch because the other apps (all browsers in this case) forced it out of cache and then it was at VirusScan Enterprise's mercy again :evil:

Sorry it took two days to get around to that, I was so tired yesterday that I left a little early.

Firefox takes 45 seconds on your machine to launch!!!

What kind of crapbox do you have? 386, 486, Dell?

Launches in 3-4 seconds here without a stripe set. From a cold boot too.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
All rightie then, I did my lil' test but am almost out of web space, so grab a copy of this now if you want one. I'm pulling it off again in a couple days, it supplanted the Pentium4 heatsink-clipdown video for the moment to make enough space.

Actually the alternate browsers did better than I expected, some of them got launched in under 15 seconds. IE is consistent at 1-3 seconds regardless. Mozilla did well on the first launch thanks to its Quick Start being enabled, but it didn't on the second launch because the other apps (all browsers in this case) forced it out of cache and then it was at VirusScan Enterprise's mercy again :evil:

Sorry it took two days to get around to that, I was so tired yesterday that I left a little early.

Mirror

Now, for the rendering speed tests

 

[Nothinman]

You know there are tools that will record your desktop without having to use an external camera?

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
You know there are tools that will record your desktop without having to use an external camera?

It might have impacted the results.

 

[Nothinman]

Sure, but it would have impacted them all equally.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Sure, but it would have impacted them all equally.

Still better to eliminate as many variables as possible.

 

[Nothinman]

But you can't eliminate the biggest variable of all, the fact that MSHTML is already loaded into memory by Explorer.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
But you can't eliminate the biggest variable of all, the fact that MSHTML is already loaded into memory by Explorer.

I thought this was about the user experience. That's part of the user experience.

Quick launch all but eliminates that issue anyhow.

 

[Nothinman]

Quick launch all but eliminates that issue anyhow.

Only to an extent. MSHTML will most likely never be pushed out to disk because Explorer is always in use, but even the Mozilla Quick Launch process can be removed from memory if memory gets low.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Quick launch all but eliminates that issue anyhow.

Only to an extent. MSHTML will most likely never be pushed out to disk because Explorer is always in use, but even the Mozilla Quick Launch process can be removed from memory if memory gets low.

Apparently that happened in the example mechBgon posted. I can't view it yet, so I don't know for sure...

 

[mechBgon]

You know there are tools that will record your desktop without having to use an external camera?

Yeah, I would love to have Camtasia, but I don't have the money lying around ATM, and I work for a branch of a non-profit agency that definitely doesn't have the funds either. I'm open to suggestions, free or not, if you have recommendations on what is a good app for that type of stuff.

Firefox takes 45 seconds on your machine to launch!!!

What kind of crapbox do you have? 386, 486, Dell?

Launches in 3-4 seconds here without a stripe set. From a cold boot too.

It's a Gateway E-1400 with a 566MHz Scumaron and 192MB of RAM, one of my two slowest generations of rigs along with P2 350's. I only get the 15k-SCSI-equipped Athlon64 because I provide it at my own expense, otherwise I'd have one of our AthlonXP riggies.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

iexplore.exe - MercenaryForHire - 06% CPU - 27,492K MEM



- M4H

 

[Nothinman]

Yeah, I would love to have Camtasia, but I don't have the money lying around ATM, and I work for a branch of a non-profit agency that definitely doesn't have the funds either. I'm open to suggestions, free or not, if you have recommendations on what is a good app for that type of stuff.

I have free stuff for X, but nothing for Windows.