Another day, another school shooting

[ivwshane]

"Mass shoot outs"* happen about as often as Democrats claim voter fraud happens.

Democrats do support measures to stop one, but not the other. Clearly their brains are defective.



* What does that even mean? Sounds like some imaginary bogeyman that the left can claim they're against.

How many mass shootings have there been since 2012? How many cases of in person voter fraud have there been since 2012?

 

[Thebobo]

You need to realize you are in the minority on this and will remain so as long as you choose to dictate terms.

There are plenty of countries where you are not allowed to own a gun. We are a free nation if you want to be safe from the ebil guns go somewhere else love it or leave it.

ETA: And again, put a true 100% background check bill on the table and I'll vote for it. I will however continue to work against de facto transfer taxes. Never again.

Lol dictate, no its just my opinion I expect no one here to have an eureka moment and change their minds on anything I say.

But.......lets see when Obama appoints himself the final president locks you all in FEMA death camps and takes everyone guns!

.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Guns are the Pandora's Box. It has been opened, and no amount of regulation will close it again for many years. With several hundred million guns around the US, a complete ban will likely not make much of a dent in supplies. This is regardless of whether firearms are good for society or not.

I don't believe this is accurate. It would take a while, but if they shut down all private gun and ammunition sales of everything but long barreled hunting rifles in this country and executed gun buybacks with amnesty periods for complying, I think you would see a marked decline in gun violence within 10 or so years, particularly as ammunition became scarce. Criminals might find it's worth more to them to turn their guns in. Hell, give them drugs in exchange for all I care. The sad thing is that so many people would read what I just wrote and call it crazy, even though we are the only developed country in the world with a major gun violence problem. There is nothing uniquely American about it. The only thing unique is the sheer number of firearms available here and the ease of obtaining them.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Criminals might find it's worth more to them to turn their guns in.

Uh, are you going to give them a life-time pension paid in stolen iPhones and laptops or something?

 

[Mxylplyx]

I believe this is true, and of course, any shooting will get reported, making it seem like a bigger problem than it is. Its still pretty disgusting though.



I agree. Not all of these shooters are crazy at all. They felt justified in making their choice and nothing caused them to stop before doing it. Wish I had the answers. All I can say is I've seen quite a few very angry young people in my time. I think this entire nation takes on too much stress for one thing. All work and no play, or no work and all stress. Or all work and all stress. I think few people actually feel comfortable, happy and secure. A kid growing up with insecure, fearful and dysfunctional parents can't help them feel they have a lot to live for. Maybe they want to find someone to blame?
EDIT: Also, this might not be an issue if these kids didn't feel they DESERVED a better life, or if they didn't think someone robbed them of a good life. They might feel ripped off or something and they are just pissed off about their whole world. OK done rambling.

I find it silly the lengths some will go to find various explanations as to why the US suffers so disproportionately from gun violence when the answer is so plainly obvious. If we made it legal to sell sticks of dynamite at Walmart with the same legal restrictions as gun sales, would we start psychoanalyzing Americans to try and find out what compels them to blow each other up with dynamite, or just do the easy thing and take the damn dynamite off the store shelves? Nearly unrestricted gun rights does NOT have to be a universal truth in this country. If they all disappeared tomorrow, life would go on. I promise.

 

[Matt1970]

I've about had enough of these. It's a pathetic statement about our country when this is now the norm.
To quote John Oliver

We need to wake up, realize something needs to be done, and fucking do it.
These gun nutters obsessions need to take a back seat to common sense once and for all

What do you want to do? What law can we pass to end this?

 

[spidey07]

I don't believe this is accurate. It would take a while, but if they shut down all private gun and ammunition sales of everything but long barreled hunting rifles in this country and executed gun buybacks with amnesty periods for complying, I think you would see a marked decline in gun violence within 10 or so years, particularly as ammunition became scarce. Criminals might find it's worth more to them to turn their guns in. Hell, give them drugs in exchange for all I care. The sad thing is that so many people would read what I just wrote and call it crazy, even though we are the only developed country in the world with a major gun violence problem. There is nothing uniquely American about it. The only thing unique is the sheer number of firearms available here and the ease of obtaining them.

Bwahaha, no.

When the population is disarmed they are going to value that gun more than life itself because they now have free reign to rob, rape and pillage because there's nothing to stop them.

And it's incredibly easy to reload your own bullets. Ban gunpowder? It's easy to make as well.

We don't have a gun violence problem, we have a violent society. Only way to combat a violent society is having an armed one.

Also, the gun grabbers always say they aren't out to grab your guns and yet here's one openly advocated that's what he wants to do.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Uh, are you going to give them a life-time pension paid in stolen iPhones and laptops or something?

A gun without bullets is nothing more than an undersized club. I'd rather have a few hundred bucks.

 

[Matt1970]

I find it silly the lengths some will go to find various explanations as to why the US suffers so disproportionately from gun violence when the answer is so plainly obvious. If we made it legal to sell sticks of dynamite at Walmart with the same legal restrictions as gun sales, would we start psychoanalyzing Americans to try and find out what compels them to blow each other up with dynamite, or just do the easy thing and take the damn dynamite off the store shelves? Nearly unrestricted gun rights does NOT have to be a universal truth in this country. If they all disappeared tomorrow, life would go on. I promise.

Ok, how do we make them disappear?

 

[QuantumPion]

Better background checks than what we have now would be one solution. All this "feel good" shit with gun free zones is silly. it seems to be the MO of retards. "Well, it makes me feel good that I put this sign up". Sounds just like the stupid hashtag for Bring Back Our Girls. It sure as shit feels good but won't do a god damn thing in the long run.

Background checks are just as much of a feel-good solution. BG checks would not have stopped any of the recent mass shootings, which are mostly perpetrated by a previously law abiding crazy person whom in hindsight people thought was a bit odd but had no obvious signs of impending violence at the time (or in the case of Lanza, murdered and stole guns from legal owner).

 

[Mxylplyx]

We don't have a gun violence problem

I'm shocked Republicans are perceived as anti-Science. Really, I am.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Ok, how do we make them disappear?

Read my previous post.

 

[spidey07]

A gun without bullets is nothing more than an undersized club. I'd rather have a few hundred bucks.

Do you know how incredibly easy it is to make bullets and their associated cartridge?

Do you have any idea how much ammo and firearms people have been stockpiling since Obama got elected? The numbers are through the roof setting records every month.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Also, the gun grabbers always say they aren't out to grab your guns and yet here's one openly advocated that's what he wants to do.

Yes, that is what I'm advocating.

 

[bradly1101]

The Jon Oliver quote makes zero fucking sense. Unless we are going to ban all guns and then magically make them all disappear, people who choose to break laws against killing people aren't going to be swayed because the item they use is also against to the law to possess.

So, what are we going to do? Make guns illegal in schools? Already done that. Make guns illegal for crazies? Already done that. Make killing with guns illegal? Yep, that was done as well.

Please, do let me know what magical legislation you can make that will fix this problem. Have at it! I'm serious.

Here is something interesting: tally up all the deaths in every school shooting since Columbine and you get a few hundred. Not even 10% of the total gun deaths PER YEAR in the US.

So nothing should be done? It's all cool eh?

 

[QuantumPion]

I don't believe this is accurate. It would take a while, but if they shut down all private gun and ammunition sales of everything but long barreled hunting rifles in this country and executed gun buybacks with amnesty periods for complying, I think you would see a marked decline in gun violence within 10 or so years, particularly as ammunition became scarce. Criminals might find it's worth more to them to turn their guns in. Hell, give them drugs in exchange for all I care. The sad thing is that so many people would read what I just wrote and call it crazy, even though we are the only developed country in the world with a major gun violence problem. There is nothing uniquely American about it. The only thing unique is the sheer number of firearms available here and the ease of obtaining them.

Explain to me how countries with total gun bans can have far higher gun crime (Mexico, Brazil, Russia, etc).

Also explain why mass shootings were unheard of until the 1970's or so when gun ownership was still at similar levels all throughout the country's history.

 

[smackababy]

So nothing should be done? It's all cool eh?

Something should be done, but banning guns isn't it. We need to enact a culture change. Stop plastering these fucktards who shoot up schools on the news 24/7. I can't name a single person killed in a school shooting, but I sure can name quite a few school shooters.

Perhaps, we should stop making them martyrs for the "oppressed". Perhaps, we should work to combat poverty and the illegal drug trade. Perhaps, we should do something to stop kids from needing to join gangs to get a sense of community and family. Perhaps, we should hold parents accountable for them not raising their children better. Gross criminal negligence resulting in a homicide sounds like something I'd get behind.

But, none of that is easy and involves blaming ourselves for being the problem. Much easier, and more popular, to just blame guns.

 

[Nebor]

So nothing should be done? It's all cool eh?

Not every problem has a solution. A few thousand people die every year so that millions can exercise their rights. That's the price of freedom.

 

[theeedude]

This would not have happened if every kid in the school was packing heat.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Something should be done, but banning guns isn't it. We need to enact a culture change. Stop plastering these fucktards who shoot up schools on the news 24/7. I can't name a single person killed in a school shooting, but I sure can name quite a few school shooters.

Perhaps, we should stop making them martyrs for the "oppressed". Perhaps, we should work to combat poverty and the illegal drug trade. Perhaps, we should do something to stop kids from needing to join gangs to get a sense of community and family. Perhaps, we should hold parents accountable for them not raising their children better. Gross criminal negligence resulting in a homicide sounds like something I'd get behind.

But, none of that is easy and involves blaming ourselves for being the problem. Much easier, and more popular, to just blame guns.

We also need to get rid of the adversarial mindset of so many gun advocates. I'm in favor of people having the right to own guns, but you read some of the stuff that's posted here about people "exercising their rights" and it boils down to "I hope someone messes with me because I want to shoot them." This mindset that anyone and everyone you meet is a threat and you need a gun to protect yourself from them is just as toxic and dangerous as the lunacy of the idiots who shoot up schools to become a martyr (or whatever). You can't expect to get along well in a society if you immediately identify everybody as a potential threat.

 

[JulesMaximus]

LOL, Democrats. "Facts have a liberal bias. Until the topic is guns, at which point all logic goes out the window and emotion and stupidity rule the day."

Unlike conservatives where stupidity rules every day. :whiste:

 

[moonbogg]

I find it silly the lengths some will go to find various explanations as to why the US suffers so disproportionately from gun violence when the answer is so plainly obvious. If we made it legal to sell sticks of dynamite at Walmart with the same legal restrictions as gun sales, would we start psychoanalyzing Americans to try and find out what compels them to blow each other up with dynamite, or just do the easy thing and take the damn dynamite off the store shelves? Nearly unrestricted gun rights does NOT have to be a universal truth in this country. If they all disappeared tomorrow, life would go on. I promise.

The above sounds correct. People will always be people and people will always kill, have issues, etc etc. But the gun problems in this country is because of guns. We can't face that, admit to it, accept it, and sure as hell won't do anything about it.
That said, I will be buying a hand gun in the near future. Call me the problem, that's fine. At least I admit it. I also accept that we are stuck in this shit pot for a good long while. Might as well enjoy those guns.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Gun murders are made easier by ready availability of guns, sure. In Switzerland where basically everyone has guns, gun violence is disproportionately high relative to places like the UK as well. Murder on a whole in Switzerland, however, is still comparable to the rest of Western and Northern Europe. Europe doesn't have gang issues like the USA does, which are thanks to another case of failed government bans, the war on drugs.

EDIT: Per Wikipedia, firearm homicides in Switzerland are 10 times that of those in the UK. In spite of that, their murder rate is about half that of the UK.

 

[bradly1101]

Something should be done, but banning guns isn't it.

I'm not sure any reasonable person thinks that's even possible. As far as your recommendations, they'd be nice, but it's 2014 and we seem to be getting worse at all that.

Some say the solution is more guns for the good guys. The trouble is that with humans good and bad is a foggy topic. I'd bet most these guys thought that they were doing good.

Would we be better off if everyone was armed for protection? Would there be more gunfights?

I've said it before; monkeys should not have such easy access to deadly weapons (as in most sophisticated societies), but it's too late for u.s.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

As far as your recommendations, they'd be nice, but it's 2014 and we seem to be getting worse at all that.

Are we? Last I checked gun violence hit a high point in the late 80s/early 90s, fell again, and has been more or less stable for over a decade.